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Old 03-05-2016, 06:08 AM
Walt's Avatar
Walt Walt is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,841

Originally Posted by GeraldC View Post
Walt, I think your schematic symbol for the contactor is making it more confusing than it is. Bob Nuckolls posted a better schematic symbol a while back that makes it more obvious what's going on.

The "I" terminal isn't connected to the exact same node as the output of the solenoid. It's a third connection, independent of the input and the output.
When the contactor opens, the "I" terminal disconnects from the output of the solenoid, which is not obvious from your diagram given the schematic symbol used in it.

Does that make sense?
Great find on the diagram (I grabbed one off google), like Scott I think I have a couple of solenoids at the hanger that I can actually check operation of to see how they work, if they are wired the way you've shown in this diagram than that would explain how the Van's wiring would work (maybe all solenoids aren't the same?) Just goes to show you can't always trust what you see on the internet!

Update.. I found where Paul Dye dissected a starter solenoid and the 'I' terminal is connected to the center disc which disconnects when the relay drops out so the Nuckols diagram is accurate and the one I posted from google is not.
So if you have a PM starter I agree that Van's method looks like an alternative method to wiring the starter that may improve starter operation. Be sure to use a heavy gauge wire in the circuit as the starter solenoid draws a pretty good current.
I officially apologize to Van's and Mr. Daniels for ever doubting them! (and don't always trust the stuff you find with google!)

Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
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Last edited by Walt : 03-06-2016 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:33 AM
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bret bret is offline
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Gardnerville Nv.
Posts: 2,828

ok, you guys got me curious here, had to go check myself, main contactor, .5 amp, starter contactor 2.6 amp. so I think my fancy dancy red lit when activated 20 amp start button on the dash should work.....wiring progress..............
7A Slider, EFII Angle 360, CS, SJ.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:33 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
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Originally Posted by airguy View Post
As for the rest - Scott, we appreciate that you know a bunch of stuff, and that you are trying to "educate the masses", but there are occasionally folks out here that know stuff too. It would be nice if you quit trying to be the smartest guy in the room.
Just my 2 cents, but I've only got 3 degrees, what do I know?
You owe Scott an apology.
Dan Horton
Barrett IO-390
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:49 AM
BillL BillL is offline
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,750

Originally Posted by DanH View Post
You owe Scott an apology.
+1 Absolutely.

Having spent a few years as a mechanic and getting a couple of ME degrees and 40 yrs of experience, here is a statement that I found profound:

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

Lord Kelvin:
I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:56 AM
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M McGraw M McGraw is offline
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Greenback, TN
Posts: 554
Default Good subject

The only reason I joined this website was to be educated. I very much appreciate the individuals (Scott) that are willing to take the time to share knowledge.
Marvin McGraw, 5TN4
RV-14. #140039 Complete
Flight hours: 500+
2020 Dues Paid
The Dues Paid note is a reminder for me
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:31 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514

Does anyone run a wire from the starter motor back to a light labeled starter engaged?

It is nice to know that power has been removed from the starter when the start relay is unpowered, they have been known to not open after the start switch is released.

(no degrees at all, just barely made it through HS )
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:44 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,742

Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Does anyone run a wire from the starter motor back to a light labeled starter engaged?...
Yes. I like to know that power has been removed from the starter
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:37 AM
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greghughespdx greghughespdx is offline
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Location: Aurora, OR
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
You owe Scott an apology.
I'll second that. Scott's patiently explained and shown me the real-world, experienced facts surrounding a few common (and one or two not-so-common) idiosyncrasies in airplane building (and manufacturing). And the most valuable of that information was gained through his experience. You pretty much always know what Scott's thinking on a given topic, because he's willing to share, and in my experience that's a good thing.
Greg Hughes - Van's Aircraft - Community, Media, Marketing
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Building RV-8A since Sept 2014
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Old 03-05-2016, 09:45 AM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
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Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348

The last thing Scott would expect or need would be an apology. He puts himself out there on this forum and knows what he is getting himself into. We are lucky to have such a resource to keep all of us amateurs on track. People say things all the time on forums that woukdnt be said face to face. Let's give the guy a break and move on.
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.

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Old 03-05-2016, 09:52 AM
MeAndMyToys MeAndMyToys is offline
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Location: Hillsboro,OR
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Originally Posted by DanH View Post
You owe Scott an apology.
In my view he owed Scott an apology before he hit the submit reply button.

I always liked the civility of this forum and that was out of bounds.
RV-7 Tip Up slow build
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