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RV15 Standard Kit Price guesses

gasman

Well Known Member
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RV15 Standard Kit Price guesses. And anything else you want to talk about.

Make your best guess what the STANDARD kit price will be on the RV15.

My guess is it will be priced about $42,500.00
 
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Did I guess right?

I guess $45,000 - $50,000, there is probably enough demand to keep the production line busy.
 
Does anyone have stats on past RV announcements--what has the timing typically been from announcement/reveal to kit production/delivery?
 
Realistically from the RV14 and my poor memory, I would guess three years before someone has all the kits in their possession. With the 14 Van’s told us after receiving the wings( wings were first kit shipped on the 14), that we couldn’t build them faster than when the next kit would be released. But we had a several month delay with all the remaining kits.
When complaining about the delays, Van’s personal said we were expecting unrealistic deliveries and that taking a kit to production takes longer than we builders think. It wasn’t we builders that gave the original delivery times. It was the Van’s personal, and they should have a handle on those times. Some companies want you hooked ( one kit started) so they give you short delivery times. 33 years in my company and I sure I have lost some business but gained some for being up front.
I’m not bashing Van’s, just giving some of my experience to someone that might expect things to process rapidly. If you’re 75 and wanting to get something built quickly before you loose your medical like my friend who just built an RV -14 , the delays played hard on him. He is now enjoying flying in his RV but lost 6 months due to the Covid delays. Had he stayed with the original quick build, he’ed probably still be building.
Knowing where you stand before getting into one of these projects is key.
 
Does anyone have stats on past RV announcements--what has the timing typically been from announcement/reveal to kit production/delivery?

RV-12 prototype flew late 2006. Wing kits started shipping April of 2008, full kit available in sometime in 2009. I got my wing kit in August of 2008 and had all the kits by summer 2009.
-Bruce
 
I’m going to guess 48-50k if it’s a 2 place and 65-70k if it’s a true 4 place with a 2+2 being in between.
Reasons for the higher kit prices are going to be more expensive development costs and slightly more complicated kit (shock absorption gear)
 
In addition, assuming the kit will be match holed and final sized a lot more than previous kits, the new machinery and tooling to make this happen is a big investment and that investment has to be amortized across the new kits being produced on the new machinery.

Final sized holes save you a lot of time, but that time isn't free: you've just shifted that work to Van's machines, albeit at a very good hourly rate.

If the old kit took 200 hours to build and cost $2k because it wasn't final sized, and now takes 150 hours (mostly due to final sizing let's say), but now costs $2500, you just paid Van's $10/hr to final size it for you. Seems like a fair trade unless your time is truly worth nothing.
 
In addition, assuming the kit will be match holed and final sized a lot more than previous kits, the new machinery and tooling to make this happen is a big investment and that investment has to be amortized across the new kits being produced on the new machinery.

Final sized holes save you a lot of time, but that time isn't free: you've just shifted that work to Van's machines, albeit at a very good hourly rate.

If the old kit took 200 hours to build and cost $2k because it wasn't final sized, and now takes 150 hours (mostly due to final sizing let's say), but now costs $2500, you just paid Van's $10/hr to final size it for you. Seems like a fair trade unless your time is truly worth nothing.
I’ve seen me with drills and drill bits, I trust vans machines more
 
In addition, assuming the kit will be match holed and final sized a lot more than previous kits, the new machinery and tooling to make this happen is a big investment and that investment has to be amortized across the new kits being produced on the new machinery.

Final sized holes save you a lot of time, but that time isn't free: you've just shifted that work to Van's machines, albeit at a very good hourly rate.

If the old kit took 200 hours to build and cost $2k because it wasn't final sized, and now takes 150 hours (mostly due to final sizing let's say), but now costs $2500, you just paid Van's $10/hr to final size it for you. Seems like a fair trade unless your time is truly worth nothing.

Don't the final sized holes still have to be deburred? My RV-10 flaps came with final size holes in the skins and ribs, and I seem to remember still needing to debur them before dimpling.
 
Except the turrets don’t care what size the tool in the holder is. They can punch an undersized hole, a final sized hole, A DIMPLED HOLE, or a star shaped hole in exactly the same amount of time and effort.
 
Don't the final sized holes still have to be deburred? My RV-10 flaps came with final size holes in the skins and ribs, and I seem to remember still needing to debur them before dimpling.

They have to leave something for us to do...but yes, you can still deburr the holes if you want, but at least you don't have to build the part twice (assemble with cleco, drill, disassemble, deburr, assemble, rivet). But, if you read Van's announcement on final sizing in the RV-10, they say you can go straight to assembly:
Aircraft parts with final-size holes may be dimpled and then assembled right out of the box, after deburring the edges of each part as needed.

Except the turrets don’t care what size the tool in the holder is. They can punch an undersized hole, a final sized hole, A DIMPLED HOLE, or a star shaped hole in exactly the same amount of time and effort.

Of course, they could just shoot bullets at it and make holes.

If they could have always provided final sized parts, they would have. Perhaps someone with manufacturing experience will come along and set me straight, but my understanding is to be able to provide final sized parts, it required investments in the design (older designs were literally drawings vs CAD files), and investments in the tools (older tools probably couldn't consistently hit the mark and/or marred the part in a way that was "fixed" by having you final size the hole). I had always assumed that's why they were never going to go back and provide final sized RV-6, 7 etc parts, because the time needed to interpret the drawings into something usable on the newer equipment wasn't worth the effort, plus I imagine they are still using a mix of new and old machines (gotta work that CapEx down).

Regardless, even if it's free to Van's to produce final sized parts, they are still saving you substantial time providing it for you, and to me, helps justify the more expensive kit prices (which I realize aren't just about final sizing increasing the cost). It goes along with the "to quick build or not" arguments. QB kits are by far the better deal, by the hour cost, than doing it yourself. But sometimes all we have is time...
 
The RV-12 didn't need deburring. If I remember correctly, you were even cautioned against deburring too much. Just a lite touch if you were going to do it.

I believe that was mostly due the thinner metal on the 12. This looks a little more substantial, so there may be a need here.

I can't wait for the big reveal and more pictures that is Oshkosh.

Bob
 
They have to leave something for us to do...but yes, you can still deburr the holes if you want, but at least you don't have to build the part twice (assemble with cleco, drill, disassemble, deburr, assemble, rivet). But, if you read Van's announcement on final sizing in the RV-10, they say you can go straight to assembly:



Of course, they could just shoot bullets at it and make holes.

If they could have always provided final sized parts, they would have. Perhaps someone with manufacturing experience will come along and set me straight, but my understanding is to be able to provide final sized parts, it required investments in the design (older designs were literally drawings vs CAD files), and investments in the tools (older tools probably couldn't consistently hit the mark and/or marred the part in a way that was "fixed" by having you final size the hole). I had always assumed that's why they were never going to go back and provide final sized RV-6, 7 etc parts, because the time needed to interpret the drawings into something usable on the newer equipment wasn't worth the effort, plus I imagine they are still using a mix of new and old machines (gotta work that CapEx down).

Regardless, even if it's free to Van's to produce final sized parts, they are still saving you substantial time providing it for you, and to me, helps justify the more expensive kit prices (which I realize aren't just about final sizing increasing the cost). It goes along with the "to quick build or not" arguments. QB kits are by far the better deal, by the hour cost, than doing it yourself. But sometimes all we have is time...

Yeah …… I am that guy in manufacturing. The old machines required a cad drawing as well. It was literally simply putting a different tool in the machine. The turret doesn’t know the shape of the punch and the die. It just knows how to position the part under the center of the tool. Doesn’t matter if it’s a #30 or a 2” hole. Center is center. Their old trumpf has all the accuracy needed, again, the accuracy is based off the center, not the OD

I’m sure that converting drawings to 3-d cad was helpful in bending and forming, to better establish bend radii and accurate stretchout, but 3-d drawings are not required for punching flat parts. The center of an undersized hole is the same center as a final sized hole.

My guess on the 6,7,and 9 is that they probably have stamping tools for those forms, where they are punching the new ones on a turret due to the increased speed of the new machines and the vastly lower investment in tooling with punching vs stamping.

My guess is $45k
 
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The title says.... RV15 STANDARD KIT PRICE GUESSES.

Out of 15 posts only 4 have to do with the subject.... If you want to talk about anything else other than the title of the thread, learn how to start your own thread and hope it does not get hijacked by someone asking an off the wall question.
 
The RV-12 didn't need deburring. If I remember correctly, you were even cautioned against deburring too much. Just a lite touch if you were going to do it.

Wow. I would love to have seen where this guidance is hidden because I sure never saw that. I spent a good chunk of the last 3 years in front of the scotch-brite wheel after reading the same Section 5 as everyone else.


Can't wait to do it some more on a 15 tail in a couple years!
 
All I know…

All I know is it will be a fair price.
And dont forget the discount you will receive for the engine from Lycoming.

Where other manufacturers are trying to cover their entire over head with one or two models, the RV15 now shares those costs with legacy planes.

Large companies get large because they can produce product at lower costs than others in the market; Vans benefits from this.
 
I lightly deburred all holes - i think most RV-12 builders did that. The advantage was speed with a pneumatic puller. My 2 kids and I built the RV12 wings in 2 1/2 weeks in our garage.
 
I built an RV-4 years ago and then got more into backcountry flying which made me lose interest in the RVs. The RV-15 has definitely rekindled my interest. Watching closely.

I'm guessing empanage, fuse, wing, and finish kits all total will run about $50-$55K.
 
The title says.... RV15 STANDARD KIT PRICE GUESSES.

Out of 15 posts only 4 have to do with the subject.... If you want to talk about anything else other than the title of the thread, learn how to start your own thread and hope it does not get hijacked by someone asking an off the wall question.

Guess this is the first time you have experienced "thread creep".
Actually not too bad on VAF but does happen.


From sizing and parts count estimate, Im guessing the pricing will be RV-14 kit prices +20%.
 
Guess this is the first time you have experienced "thread creep".
Actually not too bad on VAF but does happen.

No, they are familiar with thread creep... :p

My guess is $52,500 for complete standard kit, >$80,000 for QB's.

We need a scatter plot of everyone's guesses and then Van's will know where to price it at to meet our assumptions, once they realize some of us have pretty much decided we will pay anything to have it in our grubby mitts as soon as possible :D
 
My guess is $52,500 for complete standard kit, >$80,000 for QB's.

We need a scatter plot of everyone's guesses and then Van's will know where to price it at to meet our assumptions, once they realize some of us have pretty much decided we will pay anything to have it in our grubby mitts as soon as possible :D

Well in that case I’ll chip in with $200 per sub-kit to keep the average down for those of us that need to consider currency exchange rates and international shipping :D
 
Vans has been expanding

We may be pleasantly surprised by Vans’ expansion and utilization of new in house and 3rd party parts manufacturers.

Speed may overcome lower prices. Notice most of the rivets on the prototype are pulled, with some other types.

This new RV-15 will be insanely popular, especially for repeat offenders. I’ll predict for RV-14 plus 20% as previously mentioned, but they will focus on reducing wait times.
 
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