Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
Question about ?NX? on N Number.
- Thread starter chazking
- Start date
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
That does not fit in with the guidelines that are published in the EAA registration kit. But, there are many planes out there that do not fit the guidelines for the N number.
Are you going to use a DAR, or an FAA inspector??? A DAR might let you pass on it, but pretty sure a FAA guy will not. Talk to your inspector first.
Are you going to paint the plane before or after the inspection???
Simple vinyl numbers on an un painted plane will get you by, and then when doing the painting you could make an "adjustment" to the design
but it could still get noticed by a ramp check or similar.
Are you going to use a DAR, or an FAA inspector??? A DAR might let you pass on it, but pretty sure a FAA guy will not. Talk to your inspector first.
Are you going to paint the plane before or after the inspection???
Simple vinyl numbers on an un painted plane will get you by, and then when doing the painting you could make an "adjustment" to the design
but it could still get noticed by a ramp check or similar.
Last edited:
NO, You may not!
Ref part 45.21 through 45.29
Roman block numbers and letters, no ornamentation, etc.
All, I'm applying my n-number (N1XS) shortly. Many of you know the regs well and wondered if I could use the following:?
Ref part 45.21 through 45.29
Roman block numbers and letters, no ornamentation, etc.
That does not fit in with the guidelines that are published in the EAA registration kit.Are you going to use a DAR, or an FAA inspector??? A DAR might let you pass on it, but pretty sure a FAA guy will not. Talk to your inspector first.
Are you going to paint the plane before or after the inspection???
Simple vinyl numbers on an un painted plane will get you by, and then when doing the painting you could make an "adjustment" to the design
If a DAR lets this pass, he is not doing his job. A DAR works under the exact same regulations as the FAA.
Changing the numbers after inspection does NOT make it legal.
Just as an aside, inspectors on our area are beginning to crack down on some of these "illegal" N numbering procedures.
John Clark
Well Known Member
To expand on Mel's response, here is the wording from AC 45-2D on the subject:
N-Number Legibility. The N-number is required to be legible and written in capital Roman style letters without any ornamentation. You may use shading or a border only if it makes the number more legible.
John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
N-Number Legibility. The N-number is required to be legible and written in capital Roman style letters without any ornamentation. You may use shading or a border only if it makes the number more legible.
John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
And I understand that some at the now very large Department of Homeland Security have taken keen interest in people who misrepresent or intentionally alter registration numbers on aircraft, resulting in criminal (not civil action, but criminal) charges. As we saw with the glider pilot in in South Carolina, the federal law enforcement might challenge someone in an extreme fashion should you not meet their impression of the standards.
Last edited:
craigvince
Well Known Member
On the other hand,....
I would agree that it certainly does not meet the conventions of the regs, but I don't know who might catch it. If it were me, I'd probably paint the plane, but add the N# with vinyl lettering. Make a couple extra 1's and if anyone ever calls you on it, you can easily change it back to a 1.
Just my two cents worth.
I would agree that it certainly does not meet the conventions of the regs, but I don't know who might catch it. If it were me, I'd probably paint the plane, but add the N# with vinyl lettering. Make a couple extra 1's and if anyone ever calls you on it, you can easily change it back to a 1.
Just my two cents worth.
Bad advice
I have a hard time with the advice of doing one thing for the inspection and then changing it afterwards. All of us in Experimental aviation have an obligation to comply with the regs. Those who don't comply set a bad example for the rest of us and end up causing more rules.
I have a hard time with the advice of doing one thing for the inspection and then changing it afterwards. All of us in Experimental aviation have an obligation to comply with the regs. Those who don't comply set a bad example for the rest of us and end up causing more rules.
az_gila
Well Known Member
About the only font that is 100% legal on the line width and the character width is this USAF one...
http://www.dafont.com/amarillo-usaf.font
http://www.dafont.com/amarillo-usaf.font
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
All, I'm applying my n-number (N1XS) shortly. Many of you know the regs well and wondered if I could use the following:?
I got gigged on my inspection because the N-number decal, purchased from Aircraft Spruce specifically for this purpose, had the 'B' character 1/8" too narrow. Yes, the DAR pulled out a scale and measured.
I don't think the design is a good idea - even if you get it past the DAR, a later ramp check or similar might end in tears.
*ETA - I really appreciated the orientation to detail that he provided. If you're in the MN area, you'd do well to look up Tim Mahoney when it's time for your inspection.
Last edited:
In a lot of different font styles (maybe all), it is very common for the letters of the alphabet to not all be the same hight.
Adjustments are made to some of the letters so that to our eye they all look the same size. Apparently, the large variation in shapes will trick out eye to thinking they are not the same hight, when they really are. This needs to be considered when ordering lettering.
az_gila
Well Known Member
Exactly, which is why you need a geometric font and not one that is visually corrected...
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?p=771628&postcount=10
I challenge anyone to find another standard font that meets (exactly) the FAA letter width and stroke width requirements as the correct fraction of letter height.
Last edited:
ChiefPilot
Well Known Member
This was ACS' N-number strip - not individually ordered characters.
But your point is well taken. Even ordering N-number decals from a well known supplier isn't a guarantee of accuracy.
I am not aware of any legal 2" numbers. They need to be at least 3".
http://www.flightsimaviation.com/data/FARS/part_45-29.html
VIc
AX-O
Well Known Member
I am building an RV-4 and have been thinking about using the ?NX? on my N number to specify experimental. My question is this
When I use the N number during radio calls, do I say
November-one-two-three-alpha-bravo
Or
November-Xray-one-two-three-alpha-bravo
Or
Experimental November-one-two-three-alpha-bravo
Thanks for any help.
When I use the N number during radio calls, do I say
November-one-two-three-alpha-bravo
Or
November-Xray-one-two-three-alpha-bravo
Or
Experimental November-one-two-three-alpha-bravo
Thanks for any help.
NO!
The "X" in the N number replaces the 2" EXPERIMENTAL placard.
You do still need the passenger warning for the RV-4, but not for the -3.
The "X" in the N number replaces the 2" EXPERIMENTAL placard.
You do still need the passenger warning for the RV-4, but not for the -3.
If the design is more than 30 years old, a newer aircraft is considered a "replica" and meets 45.22(b).
Bagarre
Member
14 CFR Part 45
Identification and Registration Markings
Subpart C--Nationality and Registration Marks
Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a
U.S.- registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been
issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition
aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external
configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying
marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of
the Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; .....
Doesnt say anything about when it was designed but when it was built.
Identification and Registration Markings
Subpart C--Nationality and Registration Marks
Sec. 45.22 Exhibition, antique, and other aircraft: Special rules.
(b) A small U.S.-registered aircraft built at least 30 years ago or a
U.S.- registered aircraft for which an experimental certificate has been
issued under Sec. 21.191(d) or 21.191(g) for operation as an exhibition
aircraft or as an amateur-built aircraft and which has the same external
configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may be operated without displaying
marks in accordance with Secs. 45.21 and 45.23 through 45.33 if:
(1) It displays in accordance with Sec. 45.21(c) marks at least 2 inches
high on each side of the fuselage or vertical tail surface consisting of
the Roman capital letter "N" followed by:
(i) The U.S. registration number of the aircraft; .....
Doesnt say anything about when it was designed but when it was built.
deek
Well Known Member
The Riverside FSDO made me remove the 2" N numbers from my March '83 registered LongEZ and install 3" high numbers. When I removed the O-235 and installed the O-320 in 1986 I fought with the FSDO regarding 12" high N numbers as we couldn't agree on the definition of "cruise speed". The FAA relented & the plane retained the 3" numbers as does the IO-360 powered '89 LimoEZ even though "cruise" is well in excess of 180 knots.
David Paule
Well Known Member
It's a bit early but I'm taking notes!
Dave
RV-3B now on the wings
Dave
RV-3B now on the wings
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Me too, this is the first I have heard of this. Does this mean I can just put an X in the number without a new registration? I am liking this!
Only if your plane is old enough.
flyboy1963
Well Known Member
original poster.....
another option. .....put the ornamental chess piece thingy INSIDE a regulation stroke width and height character.
another option. .....put the ornamental chess piece thingy INSIDE a regulation stroke width and height character.
The first RV-3 and RV-4 aircraft were built over 30 years. i.e. A new RV-3 or RV-4 has "the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago".
YES! The "X" doesn't show up in any paperwork. If your aircraft qualifies, you may remove the "experimental" placard and ad the "X" to the N number.
An amateur-built aircraft with the same external configuration as an aircraft built at least 30 years ago may utilize an "X" in the N number. i.e. NX123TX.
The "X" replaces the 2" "experimental" placard.
Reference 45.22(b).
This has been discussed at length in the other thread "N-Number Character".
These 2 threads should be combined.
The "X" replaces the 2" "experimental" placard.
Reference 45.22(b).
This has been discussed at length in the other thread "N-Number Character".
These 2 threads should be combined.
Michael White
Well Known Member
Nope!
RV-12 is a looooong way from qualifying.
And just as an aside, Light-Sport aircraft do not qualify.
Must be Experimental Exhibition or Experimental Amateur-Built certificated under 21.191(d) or (g).
RV-12 is a looooong way from qualifying.
And just as an aside, Light-Sport aircraft do not qualify.
Must be Experimental Exhibition or Experimental Amateur-Built certificated under 21.191(d) or (g).
Last edited:
Bagarre
Member
Thanks for pointing that out, I read too much into that section.
I was thinking about the Super Cubs and such but this very much applies to the RV3 and RV4 as well.
People (and I am a person) tend to read regulations to support their beliefs of the regulations say vs reading them to see what they actually say. I try not to do this but have fallen victim more than once.
az_gila
Well Known Member
Nah- that is just a 23rd Century version of the USAF Amarillo font.
They renamed it 3 centuries later after the USAF merged into the Federation....
The USAF Amarillo font I linked to actually came from a space model making site as the correct one for the Enterprise NCC-1701...
RV-7 has a longer wing span than an RV-6 so it does NOT share the same external configuration.
Just to add to Gary's post.....
The RV-7 also has a longer fuselage and larger rudder.
The RV-7 also has a longer fuselage and larger rudder.
