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Alternator problem - here we go again

AN23

Well Known Member
Ok, I have a Plane Power 60 amp alternator. It works fine for a while then, it doesn't. We've run out all of the wiring and checked the belt. We looked at the plug and tugged on the wire. All good. We've done this three or four times. Every time, after we check everything over, it works again for a flight or two then, we get a low voltage warning and sure enough, we're running on the battery (12.3 volts and decreasing). As a last resort, I have purchased a new plug, pins and seals. Today, while removing the old plug, I noticed that the white wire (unused) was in the correct location (#1) but the aircraft red wire was in the center pin location (#2) rather than the #3 position as depicted in the Plane Power drawing. The jumper was installed correctly between #2 and #3. Could this possibly make any difference? Can't see how it could since the red wire is connected to the jumper and would be connected to both pin locations in either case.
 
had a similar symptom earlier this summer. But it was not intermittent once it went. Are your brushes making good contact? These are pretty easy to check visually by removing Alternator cover and removing the brush assembly.
 
Alternator

Brand new alternator! Old one was diagnosed as having a bad internal voltage regulator. Probably have a good spare now as the problem obviously wasn't with the alternator!
 
I'm now using a $40 alternator (BRAND FREAKIN NEW) and I guarantee its magnitudes more reliable than a Plane Power.
 
Internal Regulator ??

Does this one from Amazon have internal regulator and is it ?plug and play? in place of the Plane Power? May be a good backup if so.
 
To the original question, if the two pins are tied together, it doesn't matter to which pin the wire is actually tied.

As a heads-up, the Plane Power was quoted as 60A. The Amazon alt is 40A. Not likely to be a problem, unless you have lots of electro-widgets. But you do need to know your total electrical load, before going down by 33% in alt capacity.

If you do need the bigger alternator, there are internally regulated Denso models on the same or slightly larger frame that are rated at 55-60A.

Charlie
 
Here is a new ND alternator previously recommended by Ross F.

http://www.ecae.com/alt1.html

Go to the 2026 and note it has a field wire connection. A OVPM would be needed, but it appears to be the same frame size as the PP 60A, not sure about the clocking of mount attachments.

Check it out, as the information is aged and I have no direct experience.

Also - if Bobs alternator is new - it had good reliability on Perkins diesels. Vibration should be no issue on a Lyc.
 
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The test sheet that comes with these alternators indicate they put out 60A.

Hi Bob,

The pics in the Amazon ad certainly look the same as the 60A models I have. And I don't doubt that what you got is a 60A model, if the sheet says it is. But...If you order a 12179, there's nothing to prevent the vendor sending you a 12179, which really is a 40A alternator, according to every spec I've been able to find.

Perhaps all the old-stock 12179's are long gone, and all current replacements are the 55-60A models, but...
 
Actualy 68.3A@5990RPM. Current output obviously is a function of RPM. At 2700RPM this alternator will be spinning at over 11,000 RPM. If the test sheet is to be believed. For $40 I'd be surprised if this was an acutal test.

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Alternator

Bob, does it use the same bracket as the ND, bolt on? I would like to have as a spare. Do you need to grind the mounting ear down to fit?

Thank you!
 
I went through a similar problem this summer. It wasn't intermittent though. Just failed. The issue turned out to be a broken connector inside the plug that goes into the back of the alternator.

Before figuring it out I purchased the PP alternator...then read all the posts about their reliability and went to AutoZone. The one I bought is a Duralast 14684N for a 1995 Suzuki Samurai. It was 124.99 including core charge brand new. Not reman. My plane had a ND on it and it was plug and play with the Duralast. The PP has a different plug and not sure about the mounting. Didn't get that far. The Duralast has about 30 hours on it problem free so far.

After purchasing the PP and the Duralast...Then finding the actual problem...The real fix was $3.95 for a pack of 5 connectors.
 
Bob, does it use the same bracket as the ND, bolt on? I would like to have as a spare. Do you need to grind the mounting ear down to fit?

Thank you!

If you want to replace a plane power with one of these, just need to turn some bushings on a lathe to use the existing brackets.
 
From the original post:

As a last resort, I have purchased a new plug, pins and seals. Today, while removing the old plug....

So did installing the new plug on the end of the wiring harness fix the problem?
 
Alternator

Dan,

Haven't replaced the plug yet as I'm waiting on the correct crimpers to be delivered so I can replace the pins. I did dissect the plug and found the crimp on the jumper wire where the two wires are together only captured about 40% of the jumper wire side. I could get the wire in the crimp to move by moving the wire. Once I get the crimpers, I'll reinstall everything and let you guys know the result.

As for the diagnosis of the bad regulator, it was made by a local autozone and I don't trust the kid that was doing the test. Once I get the airplane flying again, I'm revisit.

Rob
 
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Alternator

I may have found the problem. I took a very close look at the connector and the wires. Found that the 12 volt input wire had insulation on it 95% of the wire where bare wire should be under the crimp.the jumper wire was on top of that and only about 40-50% of the bare wire was captured by the crimp. Boy, you really, really have to look close to see these issues!
 
I may have found the problem. I took a very close look at the connector and the wires. Found that the 12 volt input wire had insulation on it 95% of the wire where bare wire should be under the crimp.the jumper wire was on top of that and only about 40-50% of the bare wire was captured by the crimp. Boy, you really, really have to look close to see these issues!

There exist important things to see in "tiny land". I've been spending a LOT of time on one of these recently. Priceless.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UBJ85I/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Alternative alternator update. This link, East Coast Electric Alternator - call and talk to Chuck. The 2026 is a brand new ND and has the field wire for RV application, just add the B&C OVPM and it is ready. The stator OD is 93mm, so it is small.

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I have one of these I've tested on the bench. I prefer to leave the IR regulator alone, just as the Denso engineers designed it. Just my opinion after 3 decades of using these things.
 
There exist important things to see in "tiny land". I've been spending a LOT of time on one of these recently. Priceless.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UBJ85I/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

With the move of our production line, I may have access to a few surplus B&L stereo inspection scopes and ring lights. (although new LED ones are probably worth the upgrade). Not cheap to ship (heavy bases), but if there is interest...
And yeah, I have one on my bench that gets use on occasion. Good for finding the Al splinter in your finger too!
 
Alternator

YES! Today, I replaced all pins and the plug and now, I'm showing a steady 13.9-14.0 volt charge rate (battery is down). Ultimately, I think the problem was the sense wire was crimped over insulator. Almost NO bare wire under the crimp and just a little sticking out beyond. I have a photo of the poor pin crimp but I lack the intelligence to know how to get it here. I did call Plane Power about this as it is VERY difficult to see unless you take the wire out of the connector and remove the jumper wire which lays on top of it.
 
Put some RTV in the back of the connector to support he wires. PP Does not use the support/sealing grommet, so the pins eventually break due to vibration. (And you cant install the grommets after crimping the pin on the wire.)
 
Rocket Bob Kubota

Bob, I currently have a Denso, the attachment on your choice only has "one attach point" will it work? I know one is for tension. Also there is a two prong plug, not three like on the Denso.

Thanks
 
If you're going to RTV it, might as well use 'sensor safe' RTV, to minimize corrosion risk.
Should be plastic housing to wire insulation, so only issue would be any outgassing. (which, according to statistics, would outlast the PP alternator by 10x :D) Still, it's a shame that PP loses reliability over lack of a 10 cent part and poor wire termination workmanship.
 
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