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RV to RV or plane to plane conversation frequency

ron sterba

Well Known Member
I know of one frequency and that being 122.75 for plane to plane. Are there any other frequencies that can be used?

That frequency gets busy with guys flying to their destination. Sometimes it's a little cumbersome trying to talk over each other 50 miles apart.

Ron in Oregon
RV9A Flying
 
12345

I too use 123.45 - easy to remember, just like all my passwords! :D
 
123.45 is a FAA designated frequency

"for non-government flight test operations"

Ron
 
123.45

A lot of people use 123.45 but we really shouldn't.

An airport used it for communications during a fly-in and got a large fine.

908. SPECIAL USE OF 123.45 MHZ. Within the United States (including Alaska, Hawaii, and United States
possessions) 123.45 MHz is authorized to be used only for non-government flight test operations, not air-to-air
communications. However, the frequency 123.45 MHz is designated as an air-to-air VHF communications
frequency to enable aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic areas out of range of VHF ground stations
to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems. This
special use is in compliance with ICAO Annex 10, Volume V, Section 4.1.3.2.1

https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/6050.32B%20Chg%201.pdf
 
122.85 used to be listed as an alternate but I haven't looked in quite a while. 123.45 should not be used for air-to-air multi-com. It is a designated frequency for flight testing.
 
Air to Air Frequency

Ron,

The FAA Airmens Information Manual (AIM) directs air to air frequency selection of specific VHF frequencies.

See this link: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/aim.pdf

If 122.75 is too busy there are 3 other frequencies you could use that are not in use by the FAA. The table below from page 4-1-7 of the AIM describes which frequencies are allowed for communication plane to plane:

aev8so.jpg
 
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122.85 used to be listed as an alternate but I haven't looked in quite a while. 123.45 should not be used for air-to-air multi-com. It is a designated frequency for flight testing.

Mel has it. We use 123.45 for air to ground phase one test flights. That is kind of by the book and leaves that channel open for important test flights. It has gotten a lot more congested over the last 20 some years, but 122.8 has always been the unicom open channel. Using .85 or three past the dot if you have it is still the most used chatter channel around. You can't get in hot water for using a common Unicom frequency, you just get stepped on from time to time. Yours, R.E.A. III #80888
 
Not sure about the south, but up north there's usually some chatter going on here...

126.90 (aka Salty)
129.92 (Standard)
130.30 (Guns)
 
My goodness, WHATS BEHIND DOOR NUMBER TWO. ITS A LEARNING MOMENT FOR SURE! Ok maybe it's time that we ask for more frequencies from the Feds for our flights as many more are traveling together at fly ins. Where to start that's the next question. Thanks everyone with all the charts and info,great help.

Ron in Oregon
RV9A Flying
 
Turbo this the most comprehensive list I HAVE EVER SEEN! Thanks, I think it's time we let the FAA to destinate a few more channels to plane to plane list.

Cheers
Ron in Oregon RV9A
 
Not sure about the south, but up north there's usually some chatter going on here...

126.90 (aka Salty)
129.92 (Standard)
130.30 (Guns)

The bottom two are reserved and used by 121 carriers here in the USA for operational use. You'll hear some funny stuff on those from time to time.
 
123.5 (as noted above) is commonly used in "practice areas" that have heavy amounts of flight instruction going on. It is used all the time in our area to help sort out operations between flight schools and other aircraft being used for instruction / practice in our local designated practice area. Helps everyone know who's in what airspace.

I wouldn't use for it for air-to-air other than instructional / practice flights, which could conceivably include formation practice or aerobatic practice.
 
According to an article by Jim Weir in the December 2011 Issue of Kitplanes Magazine, "122.75 is the only channel legally authorized for fixed-wing air-to-air (chatter)".
 
Yes, everyone please do not use 123.3 and 123.5. They are congested enough with undisciplined glider folks that it drives the rest of us glider folks nuts as it is.

A few flight schools try to use it, and then get mad at how congested it is with glider chatter. My answer to them is not to use it. Gliders get only those two, so please leave it to them.
 
Hi Folks

As an Oceanic Pilot I can attest to the issue of using 123.45 with GA folks on the west coast. That freq is used to pass info, WX, Turb, etc on the oceanic tracks and having "Bob" trying to figure out where "Billy" is and then talking about how nice the lake bellow looks today really jams up the Chanel with non important stuff. There have been days with high altitude severe turbulence forecasts where we are very busy on 123.45 making sure everyone can avoid hurting someone.

BTW I believe the Fine for unauthorized use is $10k

But instead of being negative lets look for a solution. One air to air frequency is not enough. In fact its a SAFETY issue! Now that we have 8.33 khz frequencies available how about having a change.org petition to have the FCC re designate some more .25 khz frequencies to GA and move some special use frequencies to the new channels. I'm fine with moving 123.45 even.
 
But instead of being negative lets look for a solution. One air to air frequency is not enough. In fact its a SAFETY issue! Now that we have 8.33 khz frequencies available how about having a change.org petition to have the FCC re designate some more .25 khz frequencies to GA and move some special use frequencies to the new channels. I'm fine with moving 123.45 even.

I too have done many crossings where way west of DINTY, FICKY, BEBOP, etc I?m listening to talk that doesn?t belong there.

Since 8.33 spacing isn?t required in FCC regulated airspace, I don?t think there would be much success getting the FCC to assign 8.33 spaced frequencies to any special purpose.
 
It's the FCC, not the FAA

I once suggested that perhaps the FAA could assign a frequency along with the waiver for weekend aerobatic competitions. For years we have been randomly picking a vacant frequency. The answer I got from the FAA: "We never talk to the FCC."

It is a matter of safety. When I flew the Air Attack missions in support of wildfire suppression we always used a standard, assigned frequency to control all traffic within the TFR. Don't know why they can't have a standard frequency for air shows and aerobatic contests. And a few more for formation communications wouldn't hurt either.

Anyone want to take on the FCC? You could be our hero!
 
Any FAAers on VAF?

...Anyone want to take on the FCC? You could be our hero!
Very good ideas. With 8.33khz it's got to be a lot easier. I'll bet you a nickel there is at least one FAAer on VAF that could probably work with the EAA to get this done. I hope he or she raises their hand!
 
Hi Folks

As an Oceanic Pilot I can attest to the issue of using 123.45 with GA folks on the west coast. That freq is used to pass info, WX, Turb, etc on the oceanic tracks and having "Bob" trying to figure out where "Billy" is and then talking about how nice the lake bellow looks today really jams up the Chanel with non important stuff. There have been days with high altitude severe turbulence forecasts where we are very busy on 123.45 making sure everyone can avoid hurting someone.

BTW I believe the Fine for unauthorized use is $10k

But instead of being negative lets look for a solution. One air to air frequency is not enough. In fact its a SAFETY issue! Now that we have 8.33 khz frequencies available how about having a change.org petition to have the FCC re designate some more .25 khz frequencies to GA and move some special use frequencies to the new channels. I'm fine with moving 123.45 even.

I am sure perhaps it happens but I have flown a ton of west coast oceanic flights and I have never heard Bob talking to Billy. The oceanic entry points where switchover to 123.45 occurs are at least 120 miles offshore and most further. Most light aircraft radios don’t transmit much beyond that if that far. I do hear a lot of chatter about layovers and contracts ect...
 
With the 8.33 spacing, there are a lot of owners who not only would need to replace their com radios, they probably just got done paying for ADS-B.

What do we have to do - add about $1,000 per plane to the yearly budget just for mandatory equipment upgrades?

C'mon, folks.... let's not add to our unnecessary burdens.

Dave
 
With the 8.33 spacing, there are a lot of owners who not only would need to replace their com radios, they probably just got done paying for ADS-B.

What do we have to do - add about $1,000 per plane to the yearly budget just for mandatory equipment upgrades?

C'mon, folks.... let's not add to our unnecessary burdens.

Dave

Well, don?t get a boat. Just one boat unit is a thousand bucks and it always take a couple units to do anything.
 
With the 8.33 spacing, there are a lot of owners who not only would need to replace their com radios, they probably just got done paying for ADS-B.

What do we have to do - add about $1,000 per plane to the yearly budget just for mandatory equipment upgrades?

C'mon, folks.... let's not add to our unnecessary burdens.

Dave

David

The idea was to assign current .25 freqs the big guys use to 8.33 and free up .25 freq or three for GA.


:)
 
I used 121.500 Mhz, seems to always be quiet... kidding. Freqs are congested World wide and why the current 760 channels is insufficient. The 8.33 Khz spacing is to address this and if at FL195 or above you will need it. Even unicom or multicom can be crowded. For air to air 122.75 and 123.45 Mhz are the ones I use. I never had an issue.

What is the #1 FCC rule for transmitting on any frequency? #1 FCC rule thou shall not cause interference.
 
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Quiet...not really

We almost always monitor ?guard ? and if you fly high enough you will hear an amazing amount of unicom and traffic pattern calls on 121.5. Also common is the call to ramp control or operations. Of course you have the virtuous ? guard police? who must key up and correct the person transmitting on guard even though most likely the offender is listening on another freq.

Cm
 
We almost always monitor ?guard ? and if you fly high enough you will hear an amazing amount of unicom and traffic pattern calls on 121.5. Also common is the call to ramp control or operations. Of course you have the virtuous ? guard police? who must key up and correct the person transmitting on guard even though most likely the offender is listening on another freq.

Cm

And the occasional "meow". Lately that seems to be the new hot thing.
 
And the occasional "meow". Lately that seems to be the new hot thing.
Not really, the meowing and other BS on guard has been going on for years; it's so bad that pretty much anywhere east of the Mississippi River I usually don't monitor guard anymore, just too much stupidity on there.
 
FWIW: Here in the U.S. 123.450 has been an assigned frequency since the early 1930's. Back then it was actually assigned to Boeing for flight testing in the run up to WWII. It is an international air to air frequency but unauthorized here in the US so 123.450 is a definite NO-NO!

Besides 122.750, 122.850 is assigned for airplane air to air comms. For air to air instruction coordination, 123.300 and 123.500 are assigned. Other assigned VHF-AM frequencies include 123.025 for helicopter and balloon air to air coordination while the Forestry, Fire, CAP and FWS have 123.100 assigned.

You can find a fairly accurate Aviation RF Spectrum Frequency Assignments on this webpage.

:cool:
 
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HELP!

I was the Contest Director for the 2019 IAC U.S. National Aerobatic Championships, held in Salina, Kansas. We needed two dedicated frequencies, one for use in the aerobatic box and another for glider operations. I asked our IAC government liaison chairman if there was any chance of getting the FAA or FCC to assign us some frequencies. He told me there was no way to do that and the best course of action would be to randomly select two frequencies and hope for the best! (That's what is done at all regional aerobatic competitions all the time.) So I set out with the determination to knowingly and willingly break the law and pirate a couple of frequencies! I scoured every data base I could find to determine what frequencies were in use within 150 miles of Salina by the FAA and other government and non-government entities and came up with two frequencies, 129.925 for the box and 129.75 for glider operations. I live for the day when someone fixes this situation and finds a way to legally secure frequencies for aerobatic contests, air shows (yes they do just as I did), air-to-air formation flying and maybe even a RV-to-RV communications. I am otherwise a law abiding citizen and I live in fear of the knock on the door. Somebody please find a way to fix this!
 
Ron,

I've lived your spectrum pain most of my USAF military/civilian engineering career. Getting any frequency assignment, let alone one in the VHF AM Air band, requires hugely bureaucratic organizations - FAA, FCC and sometimes NTIA - to communicate and coordinate. And spectrum management is hugely political in addition to being hugely bureaucratic, so you can do the math.

The good news is that the FCC is too busy doing other things (like issuing licenses for systems that interfere with GPS) to monitor 24/7 all EM spectrum in the US. I'm not saying that it's ok to operate without a frequency authorization, it's just that your events are small, temporary disturbances in the VHF spectrum. If you do your best to clear a frequency before an event and no one complains about interference with their legally-assigned frequency, you're not super likely to get a cease-and-desist letter.

Hope this eases your fear of the MiB knocking on your door. :)

Dave
 
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