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Long wait, no parts and no contact...

Captain_John

Well Known Member
What would you say is a reasonable amount of time to wait for a part to arrive?

Almost 60 days ago I ordered an antenna kit from what I presumed to be a reliable source (he writes for Kitplanes Magazine). I called him after 30 days and he told me, "I am kitting them up" right now and I should have it shortly.

Since then he doesn't answer his phone and ignores the 2 emails I have sent him since.

I paid $36 in advance via paypal and have yet to receive a thing!

Did I do something wrong?

What should I do next?

Patiently waiting (still) for my stuff.

Am I being unreasonable?

:confused: CJ
 
since you mentioned Paypal

I would immediately open a case with PayPal. They have a limit on the time you can take action. You may have passed their time limit (I believe it's 45 days). If you have, you are SOL as far as PayPal.


If the PayPal payment was funded though a credit card, you can contact the credit card company.
 
Hmmmm

Without trying to insult you........ you are being too reasonable to the point of stupidity.

I would be very surprised if you saw your ant or money again after such a wait.
 
UPDATE!

Gentlemen, yes, I am a patient man. Perhaps too patient. Thanks for all your advice. I know the Archer antenna is a good one. I have it for my RV-7 wingtip. This is being ordered for a friend and his plastic airplane. I am doing a friend a favor by ordering this for him. This isn't even for me!

Anyways... he finally replied!

Here is the content of the last email from him as of yesterday:

+++++++++++++++++++

Him: The problem, John, is exactly how you have described it. Three emails that I count and "several times" calling. If you had 50 people doing this ten and twenty times a day you'd get nothing done either. I can refund your money or get the items out as soon as I can, your choice. However, being asked a couple of dozen times a day when I am going to get out their order, you'd get nothing done either.

Same for an answering machine. Listening to a couple of dozen messages a day after working a full day isn't exactly a lot of fun.

This is our 38th year in business and we haven't screwed a customer out of a dime. Yes, we are way behind, but we will eventually give product or refund.

Product or refund, your choice.

Thanks, Jim

Then my reply:

Jim, fifty people doing this 20 times a day? You need to address your business structure!

I thought that I spoke what I wanted when I put my money down TWO MONTHS AGO and said please ship my parts? I also reiterated it about a month ago when you told me that it would be here "soon". I also recall you telling me that it would be in my hands at a given point in time (which has come and gone weeks ago)!

I did not say that you screwed me out of anything, but you have yet to prove that.

YES, please send me the antenna kit you promised me a long time ago!

I am still (a little bit less) patiently waiting.

John

++++++++++++++++++

I will let you all know if and when this stuff ever arrives!

SOOOOOO many people are PM-ing me and asking who this guy is. I will leave his name out of it for now unless the stuff DOES NOT COME, then it is a whole new ball game!

;) Stay tuned!

:) CJ
 
UPDATE!

Gentlemen, yes, I am a patient man. Perhaps too patient. Thanks for all your advice. I know the Archer antenna is a good one. I have it for my RV-7 wingtip. This is being ordered for a friend and his plastic airplane. I am doing a friend a favor by ordering this for him. This isn't even for me!

Anyways... he finally replied!

Here is the content of the last email from him as of yesterday:

+++++++++++++++++++

Him: The problem, John, is exactly how you have described it. Three emails that I count and "several times" calling. If you had 50 people doing this ten and twenty times a day you'd get nothing done either. I can refund your money or get the items out as soon as I can, your choice. However, being asked a couple of dozen times a day when I am going to get out their order, you'd get nothing done either.

Same for an answering machine. Listening to a couple of dozen messages a day after working a full day isn't exactly a lot of fun.

This is our 38th year in business and we haven't screwed a customer out of a dime. Yes, we are way behind, but we will eventually give product or refund.

Product or refund, your choice.

Thanks, Jim

Then my reply:

Jim, fifty people doing this 20 times a day? You need to address your business structure!

I thought that I spoke what I wanted when I put my money down TWO MONTHS AGO and said please ship my parts? I also reiterated it about a month ago when you told me that it would be here "soon". I also recall you telling me that it would be in my hands at a given point in time (which has come and gone weeks ago)!

I did not say that you screwed me out of anything, but you have yet to prove that.

YES, please send me the antenna kit you promised me a long time ago!

I am still (a little bit less) patiently waiting.

John

++++++++++++++++++

I will let you all know if and when this stuff ever arrives!

SOOOOOO many people are PM-ing me and asking who this guy is. I will leave his name out of it for now unless the stuff DOES NOT COME, then it is a whole new ball game!

;) Stay tuned!

:) CJ

Jim has been doing this for a long time. He is well known among the composite builders and you WILL get your parts,,,,,you just have to be patient.
 
Remember that many aviation companies are simply one man (or woman) operations. Just about every major component on my plane took longer than I was told, including Catto, ECI, Dynon, and Van's. I just wish that the companies would be clear exactly how long it will take so you don't feel the need to query them.

I'd say be patient, but next time ask how long you have to wait when you order. Classic Aero tells you months in advance "Your order will be run on xx/xx/xx" A few days later it shows up at your door.
 
Wow, I got to commend some of you guys for being so patient, by now I would be going insane and I consider myself an very patient person.
 
I hate that business practice. People don't want to tell customers the truth because they think it will make the customer unhappy and end up making them more unhappy when things take longer and cost more than they were told. I ran into that when I had my motorcycle built. After about the third instance where the builder didn't meet a deadline or cost point (and I mean wildly) I sat down with him and told him that it was critical for me to plan the timing of the work and the money and that it would be better if he estimated high or I would have to find another builder. After that, he always came in under estimates or called me immediately if something changed and we got along just fine. It's one reason why I like Aerotronics; they tell you a price and it's pretty close. They also schedule their work very tightly.

I agree with the response to Jim - if you're getting that many inquiries, then it should tell you that something is wrong. Most of the stuff I've bought for my RV arrives so fast it makes my head spin and my only post-sale contact to the vendor is 'Thanks'.
 
Excuses Excuses

If he sent the parts out in a timely manor he would not be getting these calls....emails.
 
As a former vendor

I have a problem with waits longer than two weeks for ordered parts. I always bit the bullet and manufactured way more than enough parts to ship in advance, even if I did not have the orders. Unfortunately some manufacturing is so expensive, small vendors cannot pre-make orders. I do not agree with the any excuse for not replying to customers.
 
I agree with=

Rog----As a small vendor, Ive done my best to have parts available for fabrication when I get orders, so they can ship rapidly. On a few occasions when stock orders and build orders overlap, I've tried to either email my customers or call them and let them know the status of their order. Most of the time, they have their order in 2-3 business days. UPS is alittle slower.
On occasion, Ive shipped overnite (air) at my expense. It's all part of doing business. The best thing a vendor can do is to communicate with the customer, let them know up front if there may be a delay, or extra lead time. If you tell someone 3 weeks, most people can plan that around their schedule. When 3 weeks turns into 9 months (YEP happened to a friend of mine), that is not acceptable.
Another thing---stand behind your products. Send samples of your work if necessary (small items). If a customer isnt happy, rapidly refund their money, and ask for the product to be returned. I'm sure that doesnt happen very often, but if a customer knows that the vendor will stand behind their work, the vendor will have alot of business, ans the customer will be happy, and spread the word.
Tom
 
Tom, very well said.

I like your way of doing business, and for sure the next time I need a hose, you will get my business.
 
I'm sorry to see this happen from this vendor.

As he said, he has been in business for 38 years. I bought one of his early comm. radio kits, and when it had an RF/IF alignment problem, he fixed it for free, replacing several parts.

The radio was ten years old at that time, so he does stand behind his products...:)

It's a pity his customer communication is so poor...
 
I've sold many fabricated parts/accessories... The wait time should be very minimal. Two weeks is TOO long. Get in or Get out... if you are going to offer something for sale in this market. :)
 
Patience

Seems to me that 2 months is more than patient. To Tom's point, even small vendors have a responsibility to provide good customer service and clear communication. Expectation management goes a long way.

I would think an apology and an offer to discount the product would be very appropriate.

Jim has been doing this for a long time. He is well known among the composite builders and you WILL get your parts,,,,,you just have to be patient.
 
Seems to me that 2 months is more than patient. To Tom's point, even small vendors have a responsibility to provide good customer service and clear communication. Expectation management goes a long way.

I would think an apology and an offer to discount the product would be very appropriate.

It is what it is. No ones holding a gun to any ones head here. He did offer a refund. If you don't like someones business practices are, you vote with your wallet and go elsewhere for your parts.
 
Update:

STILL... no parts.

Last thursday I sent Jim an email asking him for a tracking number. NO REPLY!

I sent him another email today asking again if he was still in business.

Hmmmm, If he is... that would be a real shocker!

Does anyone personally know this guy that I am describing. I am withholding his company but someone here MUST know whom I can talk to and get his attention!

I mean... really now!

:mad: CJ
 
I don't mind waiting a long time for something...if you just say up front "this will take me about 4 months to send you". Even say "if you ask on the status before then, I'll ignore you". Be honest and upfront about the situation, and let people decide for themselves, but with the expectations laid out plain.

Then, no one bugging you... No resentment about (or from) your customers... Etc.

Ideally, you are quick and all that. But if its not going to be that way, just lay it all out there at the start, and then you don't get into the viscous cycles. If someone doesn't want to wait, they never order in the first place and all is good.
 
With the level of service Riley offers, I will never hesitate to buy from him!

Still love the Razor Static Ports! Thanks
 
Sounds like a opportunity for somebody.

That type of poor and dishonest communication with customers (no names)......is the exact reason we started our business. It's been a great experience and continues to grow. I treat every customer just as I would expect to be treated, I'm certainly not that patient!
 
Last edited:
Jason,

You are absolutely right!

As I recall, I was one of the individuals not getting a response from that OTHER company that spurred yours into existence!

Keep up the great work brutha!

:) CJ
 
Nice!

A friend of mine building a -7 picked up the some of the vents from you. Very nice stuff! I'll be sending you an order soon.

Just let me know how long it will take and answeor my emails or calls ;)

Don
 
I have never bought anything from this guy...I think by now we all know who he is. I have, however, had occasion to see his posts on the rec.aviation.* groups on Usenet...and also seen others comment about his business practices. Personally I would never buy anything from him, given what I have seen of his character. Why Kitplanes continues to use him as a writer I don't understand. Bob Nuckolls of the Aeroelectric List would be far superior.
 
For what it's worth, he has yet to reply to my email(s) from last week. (How hard is that to do?)

I have serious doubts that I will ever see the order or a refund of my $36.

His last email stated that he has yet to screw anyone. Hmmm, I wonder what he calls this?

Caveat emptor!

:mad: CJ
 
If it's who I think you're referring to ...

There was a time when his operation was very good.

I first dealt with him in the mid - 1980s and wouldn't hesitate to recommend him. Even in the late 1990s, when I needed some parts and had long ago lost my documentation - there it was on the internet and no problem getting what I needed.

When I was getting set to do some work for my RV, I thought I'd go that way, but found that things had changed. I think he knows the craft, but for some reason, it has become very different; sadly, my most recent experience was similar to yours.

Dan
 
Dan, So I hear...

I don't understand it really.

I STILL have no parts for my hard earned money as of yet.

Four months is a bit much. I wonder if pay pal knows what he is doing or if they would even care?

It was only $36, but it was MY $36!

I will update this post when (and IF) I ever get the antenna stuff!

Crazy stuff, huh?

:confused: CJ
 
Enough is enough John. I would get PayPal involved now. I know it is only $36 but it is the principle of the matter. The guy accepted your order so he should deliver in a timely manner. Even if he is only a one man band, this amount of time is totally unacceptable IMHO.
 
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