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Lost RV-10 door off take off what to do now?

Go4it

Member
Lost left door this morning on take off from home airport at KFWS at about 500-600 AGL. Was able to fly pattern and land without further incident. Retrieved the door from runway. Outer door skin torn at top near back hinge and outer skin was delaminated down to lower window level, the window of coarse was broken.

I had the planaround.com door latch (180 degrees) installed and door was in locked position with pins full extended when door retrieved so nothing is fool proof. Same door had popped open on take-off roll with stock Van's safety latch just after I got the plane.

Tail appears undamaged and those on ramp stated door appeared to clear tail.

Need advice on how to fix, insurance has $2500 deductable and have no idea how much would cost to fix. Should I make a claim and let insurace handle it, order parts and rebuild it myself (I am not the original builder so not sure I can even do this) or ???

Any builders in Fort Worth Spinks area that would be willing to help or at least look at and give an opnion?

Do I need to file a report with FAA or anyone? Tower did not ask me to call them.

Thanks

Gerald
N710WH
dues paid
 
I had the planaround.com door latch (180 degrees) installed and door was in locked position with pins full extended when door retrieved so nothing is fool proof.


First of all, sorry for your accident and I am glad you are ok.

I have to be honest. I can't see how the door could come undone if both pins were secured in the doorframe blocks and the center Planearound latch was engaged. Even if the top hinges completely came undone, the top of the door could rotate around the door pins at most. I would expect to see some damage in the door frame or pin area if the pins were engaged and came out.

Either the pins were not engaged, or were not far enough into the structure to provide any locking.

Do you have a visual alert when the pins are engaged properly?

As far as repair, the door is custom cut and fitted to the frame. While the window, fiberglass and other parts are likely under 1K in cost, the labor is likely to exceed your deductible. But you are going to have to find someone to do the work for you and get an estimate.
 
It may be more than you would like to do - but there is no requirement that you be the original builder to make the repair (ie., fabricate and fit a new door).

Track down someone locally who has -10 experience and go through what would be required. Then, decide if you want to give it a shot or hire it done.

Dan
 
(I am not the original builder so not sure I can even do this) or ???

Gerald
N710WH
dues paid

Were you referring to your abilities, or was this a legal question? If the latter, you own an experimental airplane. You may do this work yourself, no approvals needed as long as it is not significantly different than the original. But you already know this, I'm sure. So assuming the former, I would say most builders find the doors very tedious - a lot of trial and error on the fitting process, add epoxy/flox, sand it off, try again.... As the last post said, a lot of labor. But nothing too demanding except for patience.

I suggest you install the door not latched warning lights from Vans if you do not have them now.

And yes, pin engagement must be checked, every time. I do not let passengers close the door, I always do it myself.
 
Don't bother with the claim if I were you. For such a small amount $$ to be out, that small claim will stay with you forever and could cause you problems down the road.
 
no visual indicator installed

My best guess is that front and center latch closed but door had enough flex to allow back pins to be outside. Left door was harder to close than right so was likely 1st door built and builder had more expericence when right door was built-better fit and finish on right.

Will have indicators installed prior to flying again.

Gerald
 
You can fix it.

Gerald, my airplane is going on 6 years of age and no safety latches of any kind.

Upon checking the door pin penetrations, we found that the pilot side, forward pin was not going through the structure, but only captivated by the nylon guide. We fabbed a longer pin and saved the day. I also have red warning lights for the doors and baggage door, which I check closely and ensure that the doors are latched while I observe/instruct.

Best of luck,
 
Ntsb

Wrt the NTSB question: CFR part 830 says you need to report substantial damage, defined as a failure which affects ... , or performance, or ... and requires replacement of the part.

It's not perfectly clear to me, but I would say yes, report it. I have seen other reports of door failure with no other damage in the ntsb files.
 
Really sorry to hear of your trauma - must have been pretty scary.....

I have followed with interest the saga of the doors, especially as mine seem to be taking more time to "fettle" than the entire rest of the aircraft! A couple of thoughts:

- a properly latched door cannot come undone

- the problem comes with a pin outside the skin

- the magnetic prox sensors will pick this up

- I think overly extending the pins is counter-productive. It is important to ensure that the pins fully retract into the door so that they cannot catch on the frame when you try and close the door. A pin that is 1.5" into the frame does nothing more than a pin that is 0.5" into the frame. The crucial thing is to get the pin into the frame.
 
Gerald, my airplane is going on 6 years of age and no safety latches of any kind.

Upon checking the door pin penetrations, we found that the pilot side, forward pin was not going through the structure, but only captivated by the nylon guide. We fabbed a longer pin and saved the day. I also have red warning lights for the doors and baggage door, which I check closely and ensure that the doors are latched while I observe/instruct.

Best of luck,

Pierre, just a curiosity, but I assume that latch sensors ensure each individual pin is actually in the hole and extended before green?
 
I am just about to fit the VANS warning kit. I am wiring it up to my Skyview rather than the supplied relays and warning lights.

The system uses steel billets bonded into the ends of the pins. With the door closed, you adjust the magnetic sensor closer until it just activates. There are sensors on the fore and aft pins in series so both need to be made to indicate safe.

If the pin is not extended or outside the frame, then it will be too far from the magnetic sensor to activate it. To me it seems pretty foolproof. So much so that the UK authorities have not mandated the extra door lock SB.

It also strikes me that the stock door seal would make it difficult to detect a partially closed door. The automotive style bulb seal fitted to the frame should show a clearly visible gap with a pin outside the frame.
 
My post is not intended to be critical of the OP, but there has to been something wrong with the planearound 180 kit installed from the door to come off. If the planearound kit is installed properly, it isn't apparent to me how the door could have come off. One of the pins had to be outside the cabin cover.

The 180 kit would have extended door pins longer than plan. If they were in their holes properly it would take some really significant flexing to pull the pins out. I'm not sure it's possible, unless somebody didn't fully close the door.

This is going to get the attention of a lot of folks to understand what actually happened.

To the OP, give Jay Pratt a call at rvcentral. If he doesn't want to do the work, I'm sure he can recommend somebody that will.
 
I think it's important to find out what caused this incident. I would suggest that the OP post some photos of the door latch mechanism in the engaged position, and examine the engagement length of the pins. If there is any way to reattach the door and verify pin angagement in the frame, that also would be useful information. I can see how lack of engagement of the rear pin could allow the door to open and slide rearward, thus allowing the forward pin to also disengage. I too find it hard to imagine how, with the plane around latch, the door was not totally engaged. Is it possible the aftermarket "bullet" pins unscrewed from the tubing?
 
2nd on Jay Pratt.
He has fixed a few of the doors.
He might be North bound to Badlands flyin though.
On site.

RV central
 
I'm not Jay, but I spoke to him last night. Correct, he's hooking them up to the Badlands event in SD at the end of this coming week.
 
I think I met the OP at Walt's a few months back you were having one of your radio's looked at. I took interest in your door latch install because I had planned to do the same, I believe I have pictures of your install if you need them.
I wish I could have gotten inside to test the door but ya'll were engrossed with the radio issues. The install appeared to be correct from the short time I spent looking at it. If I remember your story of why you added the 180 kit, is because you had latched your door and the rear pin didn't engage and the door opened on rollout. I wonder if you have a problem with the door being undersized? Or is it possible that you overlooked checking if the rear pin engaged on this departure?
During my preflight check one of my check list items are to physically touch all four comers of the doors.
I'm not a builder but anything I can do to help just let me know.
Tim
 
So sorry to hear of your incident. It must have really gotten your attention. Hope I never experience something like that.
On our RV-10 with the 180 kit , if the door is closed enough for the center latch to catch, it pulls in the door in before the pins pass thru the holes (as per the instructions). Once the center latch catches, you would have to push out on the back of the door in order for the pin to go outside the skin. If something were to fall and get in between the door and it's sil, it could push it out. So you have to check the lights every time.
I'm wandering if the latch system was installed correctly. The new owner might not know (OP) how they are intended to work.
No disrespect to either the builder or the new owner. When we sold our RV-10, I made sure to go over the door latching system and explain in detail how they were constructed and how they work. What to look for , what to check and a stern warning on what would result if care is not taken to ensure everything is not in order. We have the indicating light on the Skyview also.
With the doors working as "perfect" in my description, I still would make sure I closed the passenger side door unless it was one of the build partners sitting there or the new owner after thorough instruction. We had 19 hrs of flying the RV to it's new home and the new owner had to learn the operation of the doors along with every thing else.
 
I agree with those who have said a properly installed planearound kit will not disengage if the pins are seated. Is there more going on with this door, and pehaps its mate? It seems strange to me that the outer skin would delaminate from the hinge down to the lower window level, unless it was improperly bonded to the inner shell. And by extension, are the door halves below the window inadequately bonded? Others have reported difficulty getting the lower door skins bonded due to inadequate resin in the mat( I forget the name of that stuff).

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
I'll go a little farther. On my latch install, I deliberately tested with one pin outside the structure (tests for both fore and aft pin mis-engaged). I could close the latching mechanism but it took deliberate force to keep the door twisted out of line. With the door out of line, it was not possible by main strength to move the door toward the dis-engaged pin - it simply would not budge more than a 1/4" forward/aft. I could pull the unlatched side away from the fuselage only about an inch or so; I think I could see having the forward side open causing enough oscillation that a door separates but the other side might stay with you. On the other hand, if the pin is holding the front side of the door open, it seems there should be enough air coming in to notice even at run-up (I should say that I don't have an engine yet, so this is speculation). My pins fully protrude into the aluminum structure but even if they didn't, if the nylon guides are still on the fuselage I don't see how this could have happened as described. Since I am speculating, I apologize in advance if I have overlooked something.
 
My thoughts and from 850 hours on type.

1. Build the door stiffer, ours can't be flexed that much, not with the length of our pins and the ALUMINIUM blocks (not nylon). We fitted Hendricks door systems and that may have made them more rigid?

2. Fit the sensors so that they are in series and only just close contacts when the door is fully latched.

3. Close the PAX door on every flight yourself, no matter who is in the RHS. No exceptions.

Do not accept anything less.
 
Pierre, just a curiosity, but I assume that latch sensors ensure each individual pin is actually in the hole and extended before green?

Bill, there are magnets in the ends of the pins and red lights come on if ANY one of them is not in the hole, as sensed by the magnetic switches at each of the four holes. There are no greens, just be sure that the red lights are out.

I also push against each door's front and rear as a double-check before departure.

Best,
 
David, if you have a build/pilot partner and when you are the passenger he is the pilot. He closes all doors and you trust him to close all doors, why not trust him to close his passenger door when you are the pilot. If you say liability, he assumes half the liability whether or not he is flying. Other than third party liability, ie. the door falls on someone.
 
I actually used micro switches at the end of the pins. I found the magnets were not accurate enough to assure that the pin was always fully engaged. In our installation, the pin must touch the micro switch to close the connection. All the switches are in series and report to a red annunciator light on the panel, and also an analog input on the EFIS. The only thing I would do differently would be to separate the left and right door annunciation.
I am also thinking that the doors halves may have not had good adhesion, which allowed a lot of flex.
My pre-flight always includes inspection of the door latch and pins and their operation with the door in the open position. My checklist includes two separate entries to check the door latches. I always touch all four points of engagement and check the latch. I never let the passenger latch the door.
 
Handle on aft end of door

I added a handle to the aft end of the door, so when ya close it you can pull it in tight against the frame fwd and aft when you are locking it. It's a two hand operation, but it makes for a very positive closure.
 
RV10 Door

I will have Troy call Gerald this morning. We can help.
We replaced a lost door on a RV10 last year. We had Vans send us parts and we took them to the plane. We installed the door in the usual manner. With the door attached but NOT operational, we ferried it over to RV Central. Then we finished it up and made it paintable. While it was here. We installed some after market door handels, installed an aircontitioner and the Safety magnets in the door latch holes. The door was lost on that one.
We might be able to repair Gerald's door since he still has it.
 
Outer door skin torn at top near back hinge and outer skin was delaminated down to lower window level, the window of coarse was broken.

I had the planaround.com door latch (180 degrees) installed and door was in locked position with pins full extended when door retrieved so nothing is fool proof. Same door had popped open on take-off roll with stock Van's safety latch just after I got the plane.

First off, good job getting the plane back on the ground!

On my door (180 kit) there is no possible way for one pin to be engaged without the other and no way the door will come off unless it is not closed and latched. You state both pins were fully engaged so it leads me to believe the delamination of the door skins caused the door to fold in the middle and pull the pins out. On a 180 door kit you should have about 1-1/2 of pin extension in each guide. The cam only needs 30 degrees of rotation to fully engage so less than 1/2" of retraction in the door. 180 degrees equals around 2 inches of lateral pin movement. 1-1/2 inches of distance is a lot on each pin side to pull out of the guides. I wish I could see this door before and after.
 
That was my initial thought as well. That maybe the door skin itself was defective. The epoxy of the inner skin with outer skin may have failed somehow. We won't know until someone knowledgeable can examine the door and give a thorough analysis.
 
First off, good job getting the plane back on the ground!

On my door (180 kit) there is no possible way for one pin to be engaged without the other and no way the door will come off unless it is not closed and latched. You state both pins were fully engaged so it leads me to believe the delamination of the door skins caused the door to fold in the middle and pull the pins out. On a 180 door kit you should have about 1-1/2 of pin extension in each guide. The cam only needs 30 degrees of rotation to fully engage so less than 1/2" of retraction in the door. 180 degrees equals around 2 inches of lateral pin movement. 1-1/2 inches of distance is a lot on each pin side to pull out of the guides. I wish I could see this door before and after.

Just to clarify, the O.P wrote that the recovered door was found with both pins fully extended... he didn't say they were fully engaged in the fuselage. If they had been, the door would likely still be attached to the airplane (at least part of it anyway).
 
Order a new door from Van.
You can do it. In fact, you will be the perfect person for building a perfect door.

Don't make a claim, and don't bother the sky cops (unless you declared an emergency).

It's all part of life....
 
Do you have a picture of the center cam? Is it in the locked position, with the pins extended?
 
Gerald,

In your first picture it appears that the door separated cleanly between the inner and outer door panels. IMHO that suggests improper fiberglass technique during construction. Please take a close look at the other door to make certain it does not suffer from the same defect. Probably should extend that to having someone knowledgeable inspect all of the fiberglass.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
It also appears that the door pins do not have much extension. It's hard to tell from the photos. If you could measure the extension it would be informative. I agree will Jim, you, or someone familiar with the process and with experience with FG, need to take a close look at the other door for delamination. It does appear that the inner and outer panel bonds failed. I also find it amazing how cleanly the window l delaminated from the frame. When I created my test panels at the time of each window installation, using the test panel, I could not separate the window from the FG without breaking the window material or fg it was attached to.
 
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I would internally build up that area between the top aft window corner and the edge of the door right where they put that dark strip of carbon fiber and consider a pass through bolt and countersunk washer right there to help secure the door half shells.

I'm not flying yet, but I've finished my doors but I am considering some binding reinforcement at those upper door crowns.
 
David, if you have a build/pilot partner and when you are the passenger he is the pilot. He closes all doors and you trust him to close all doors, why not trust him to close his passenger door when you are the pilot. If you say liability, he assumes half the liability whether or not he is flying. Other than third party liability, ie. the door falls on someone.

Ron,

I was not adressing that situation very specifically, but that is exactly my situation.

When Chris and I fly together we trust each other to close our respective doors. The person getting in the LHS also checks the baggage door, mind you the baggage door is not an issue...I have tested that.

Anyone else, including my wife, I shut the door. Now the issue for us is not that we think it will not close properly, because we can't close it with a pin out, but we want it to be done with minimum stress, and when I strap in and turn the electrics on I do not want to find something is not done right.

If it is hot weather, I will taxi holding my door ajar, but the EMS will let me know if I do not fully close the door, i.e. the pins are in but not fully extended. This is the risk with a passenger too, both pins in but only partially shut. I am not sure how you would do that but I think the possibility exists. The sensors will tell you.
 
I also find it amazing how cleanly the organic window material delaminated from the frame. When I created my test panels at the time of each window installation, using the test panel, I could not separate the window from the FG without breaking the window material or fg it was attached to.

Good point, although I admit that I don't understand the use of the term 'organic' in this context. Extend that inspection to include the bonding of the windscreen and other transparencies. Losing the windscreen in flight could be a lot more exciting than losing a door.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
I have dealt with a fair number of doors coming open in flight, one if which hit the tail. A big part of the issue is getting the door to stay closed in the first place, but there are a number of ways that it can come open. Any single knob rotation system can fail. I have seen doors come open from the rear pin not being engaged. I have seen them come open from the roll pin not fully seating in its slot which would keep the handle from rotating. I have had my knee/leg push against the button on the handle which released this pin and the pressures on the door caused the handle to turn and the door to open.

All this to say, I think it is imperative to have a backup mechanism to either keep the door from coming open, or to keep it from coming off if the primary latch fails. I use a strap from the main gear leg weldment bar by the outboard heel of pilot/copilot that hooks around the door handle. It allows the door to be left open during taxi for airflow in the cabin and keeps the door from coming off if it comes open.
 
I looked at an RV-10 on 9-2 which previously had the pilot door blow off on take off when the passenger opened the air vent. It had been repaired when I looked at it. To me, it appeared the door flexed and the pins slid out and tore the nylon guides. The repair included longer pins, but I do not know if the door was stiffened.
 
Doors are not complicated - Aeronca, Beechcraft, Cessna, Commander, (insert alphabetized list here), and a host of others have solved the problem of doors being being ripped off the aircraft.

Either the factory or an aftermarket supplier needs to design a front hinged door for the RV-10. Depending on a series of latches, lights, and procedures to keep something as simple as a door attached is dumb. Engineer the problem away so that when a door does pop open, it'll stay mostly closed and completely attached.
 
I have had my knee/leg push against the button on the handle which released this pin and the pressures on the door caused the handle to turn and the door to open.

Sorry Jesse, but this is just not possible on a properly built and installed RV-10 door.

I am not saying that it couldn't happen as a result of how a particular installation was built (pins not properly installed... so that the ramped portion is the only thing engaging fuselage, which would cause them to push in the retracted direction if not restrained). I have tested it in flight myself. A properly installed door will not open on its own just because the latch button is pressed.
 
Procedures

Also, great job landing the plane with all the distractions.

Assuming the doors were built correctly and had the proper engagement almost all the issues are procedural. Sounds like in this case you were not completely sure the rear pin was in the fuselage. Could have been outside of the fuselage.

If the RV-10 had retractable gear there would be just as many "landed with the gear up again" threads as there are door lost threads because the root case is the same on most incidents.
With a door light warning there are two places on my checklist you would catch this.
-Verify doors closed, latched and locked (visually inspect all four corners and make sure the latch is down and locked by pulling up on the handle)
-Verify all lights off (I have two lights for low fuel, one master caution hooked to GRT and two door lights, one for each door)

Just like putting the gear down can you imagine how many would land with the gear up if there was no audible scream or "three greens"?
Get those lights on. I know there was at least one that lost the door with the light on. I think he said the sun was hitting it. But still, a checklist would make you stop, cup your hands around the light and verify. I do it everytime.

There may need to be a standard for how the door pins should extend into the fuselage. I have seen some that are scary, with only minimal extension into the door blocks. I have the 90 degree kit from Planearound.com on my -10 and will take a quick video of both sides today at the airport.

Sorry that happened, I know how frustrating it is to have anything like that happen that not only costs money but takes so much time to fix. All we can do is learn from it and improve.
 
Excellent job handling your door off emergency!


Looking at your pictures it appears that you have a clean break from the rear.
I believe your rear pin was not engaged into any part of the fuselage.
Had your door separated from the top due to a fiberglass failure you would at least show some damage to the pin area front and back. The door would have been flopping around with the pins still engaged and finally come loose after enough flexing outside of the door frame.
I see no damage in those areas and having the rear pin not engaged allows the door to come off without tearing up the bottom end.

I am firmly in the camp of non believers of multiple safety mechanisms.
I have Van's stock door lock, (no center latch), aluminum guides and safety lights as per Vans instructions.
One of the leading causes of engine failures is still fuel starvation despite all the bells and whistles honking at us.
I am not accusing you of anything but the PIC must ensure that both doors are closed and locked.

I do exactly the same
With a door light warning there are two places on my checklist you would catch this.
-Verify doors closed, latched and locked (visually inspect all four corners and make sure the latch is down and locked by pulling up on the handle)
-Verify all lights off.
I deliberately installed the lights front and center outside of the EFIS clutter
to make sure they stand out
I did install a handle on the rear bottom of the door to assist in ensuring positive engagement of the rear pin.

IMG_0101.JPG
 
RV-10 DOOR PIN INDICATOR SYSTEM

Should I go with stock Van's Kit or is some other switch or system better?

Gerald
 
Stock

Stock Van, it's very simple built from off the shelf parts
And very inexpensive.
You'll be up and running in no time.
 
Sorry Jesse, but this is just not possible on a properly built and installed RV-10 door.

I am not saying that it couldn't happen as a result of how a particular installation was built (pins not properly installed... so that the ramped portion is the only thing engaging fuselage, which would cause them to push in the retracted direction if not restrained). I have tested it in flight myself. A properly installed door will not open on its own just because the latch button is pressed.

It's hard to say it couldn't happen when it did happen just as I described. I have heard of it on several occasions, and I was sitting at the door that opened once. The forces acting on the door put enough outward pressure on it that the handle rotated to the open position with the roll pin disengaged.

I can't explain it, but I can describe it. It can and did happen on a stock installation. It happened to me, that I know. The door opened about half way at cruise and I was able to grab it fast enough to pull it back down. The guy in the other seat was able to grab the rear handle as in another post and we got the door closed again. Without the rear handle it couldn't have happened.

On another note, I know for a fact that the RV-10 can be flown with the hinges broken and the pins fully engaged. Apparently the forces acting are pulling on the area of the latch and not at the hinges. I have seen one fly that way and know of at least one other that flew that way. I was not flying or directly involved, but I did help fix the door that was flown to me that way.
 
I can see how the forces would want to rotate the door pin mechanism to open IF the beveled part of the pin was making contact with the frame hole. The beveled part should be entirely past the hole.

One thing new builders should do, if using the stock parts, is to disregard the instructions for cutting the piece with the gear teeth in it (I forget, is it called a "rack"?). Cut it in half and get the longest throw possible, to make sure the bevel at the end of the pin is past the door frame.
 
Regarding the indicators, I am discarding the magnets and going with sealed switches ripped from the auto junkyard. They will be positioned to detect if the door is fully closed, not whether the pins are engaged. Of course, if the pins are not engaged, then the door will not be fully closed as the seal will push it away from the frame. Nothing is fool-proof but the switches have a long track record and the wiring is easy.

Regarding the racks, I followed Vans' directions but used the aftermarket angled pins and guides. The pins are set so that they fully engage the aluminum structure when fully extended. When retracted, I had to dish the outboard edge of the guides by about 1/16". This is not a problem as the guides still engage smoothly during latching and I do not depend on them to retain the door; that's why the pins are through the aluminum structure. I thought about following Bob's advice on cutting the racks but I'm using the flush external handles and I didn't want to have to rotate them that far to engage/disengage the pins. It's worth paying attention to, though. It can't be said enough, after all the threads on this, that the pins must travel enough to fully engage the primary structure. Do whatever it takes.
 
Regarding the indicators, I am discarding the magnets and going with sealed switches ripped from the auto junkyard. They will be positioned to detect if the door is fully closed, not whether the pins are engaged. Of course, if the pins are not engaged, then the door will not be fully closed as the seal will push it away from the frame. Nothing is fool-proof but the switches have a long track record and the wiring is easy.

Which is exactly why magnetic switches were used in the kit supplied warning system... to confirm that pins actually are fully engaged in the cabin frame, not just fully extended.
 
It's hard to say it couldn't happen when it did happen just as I described. I have heard of it on several occasions, and I was sitting at the door that opened once. The forces acting on the door put enough outward pressure on it that the handle rotated to the open position with the roll pin disengaged.

I can't explain it, but I can describe it. It can and did happen on a stock installation. It happened to me, that I know. The door opened about half way at cruise and I was able to grab it fast enough to pull it back down. The guy in the other seat was able to grab the rear handle as in another post and we got the door closed again. Without the rear handle it couldn't have happened.

On another note, I know for a fact that the RV-10 can be flown with the hinges broken and the pins fully engaged. Apparently the forces acting are pulling on the area of the latch and not at the hinges. I have seen one fly that way and know of at least one other that flew that way. I was not flying or directly involved, but I did help fix the door that was flown to me that way.

Jesse, I fully respect the experience you have working with a few RV-10's, but I stand by my statement. It can't happen if the door and latching system is installed properly. If you say it happened to you, then it is my opinion that the door latching system was not installed properly on that airplane.
 
The bottom of the RV-10 door is relatively close to the upper surface of the wing - a low pressure area. I'm wondering if the suction is sufficient to deform the door and pull shallowly seated pins out? Assuming the door that started this thread was poorly bonded, that door probably flexed more than normal, compounding the situation.
 
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