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  #21  
Old 11-25-2020, 09:30 AM
FL Flier FL Flier is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: FD88 - Aero Acres Airpark, Port St. Lucie, FL
Posts: 16
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What about an Aerosport Power O-360-A1A? I donít know anywhere near what I should know about this engine. Does it use a Lycoming oil pump, any Lyco parts, or is it all aftermarket/clone?
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  #22  
Old 11-25-2020, 11:37 PM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 289
Exclamation thread creep

Looks like this thread has some creeping going on...LOL.

I'm not even considering overhauling my 37 year old engine with original cylinders because the condition is airworthy. I don't recommend anyone flying for fun overhaul an engine under any circumstances other than on condition, as recommended by Mike Busch.

ADs on Lycoming (certified) engines and Hartzell (certified) propellers, however, MUST be completed to be signed off as airworthy by the A&P (he's also an IA) I work with by choice.

Hint: A person holding the Repairman's Certificate on an airframe has the same responsibility to inspect, search ADs (if applicable) and SBs, and make a judgement.

New ADs have a grace period if there is not an immediate danger of failure. One of the things that are supposed to be determined when a "Repairman's Certificate" is issued is that a person has the necessary skills to determine the airworthiness of an aircraft. Look up ADs and Service Bulletins on certified and "other than certified" parts alike, understand what is written and apply it accordingly.

To review the purpose of this whole thread:

My engine was manufactured in 1983, installed new in 2003, it needed to comply with Lycoming ADs before the DAR signed it off and to be considered "in a condition safe for operation" when inspected according to the "scope and detail" of Part 43 Appendix D at least once a year. As a PIC I make that determination every time before I fly it.
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Last edited by FlyinTiger : 11-26-2020 at 01:49 AM.
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  #23  
Old 11-26-2020, 12:03 AM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 289
Post Clones

Quote:
Originally Posted by FL Flier View Post
What about an Aerosport Power O-360-A1A? I donít know anywhere near what I should know about this engine. Does it use a Lycoming oil pump, any Lyco parts, or is it all aftermarket/clone?
Know the date of manufacture of your engine.

You will likely have a parts list or build list for your engine. You'll know by that list if you have Lycoming or Continental parts in your engine. If I had an Aerosport O-360 I'd be checking ADs at least once a year to see if any might apply by manufacture date to a "similar certified engine." If something pops up it is merely a hint to check on that item and a simple call to the clone manufacturer can clear up any questions, then you, as the repairman or your choice of A&P will determine if any action is required on your experimental engine.

Good judgement and documentation is a great way to stay transparent and retain the most value in a safety conscious hobby. If you sell your plane later the next buyer's A&P may not agree with your decision and decide a different course of action is required on an experimental engine. The experiment continues!

If you have parts made by another manufacturer (like Aerosport) please check their website or call them to see if they have issued any Service Bulletins if an experimental clone.

I use TSFlightlines fluid hoses. They are not certified, but have a "Certificate of Compliance" and meet or exceed standards for aircraft hoses. If they have an issue that needs addressing they will likely issue a Service Bulletin in the same manner that Vans Aircraft issues them with a recommended process for fixing the issue.

Even if the company that made your equipment goes out of business it is essential to have documentation that will help you maintain your aircraft. Its best to get this documentation when initially purchasing the parts. Its also a consideration in a prebuy examination before purchasing a flying aircraft. THIS reason is why I whole heartedly recommend the A&P that's going to help you with the condition inspection every year if you don't possess the repairman's certificate for your airplane be involved in a prebuy if at all possible. Even a digital log book review and a detailed picture examination and phone call to the person doing the in-person prebuy is advisable to reduce heartache later.

In the experimental world of aircraft ownership the ownus is literally ON US.

The difference between certified engine/prop and experimental engine/prop is not whether or not it is considered safe, it is who gets to make that call in the end.
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  #24  
Old 11-26-2020, 12:40 AM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 289
Lightbulb Experts? Correct me if I'm wrong...

After significant effort and some expense I do not seek to be "right," but to share my decision process, how I worked with an A&P since I didn't build my aircraft and how in the end I'm happy, my aircraft is well documented and declared "safe" on paper as I run a certified engine and propeller.

I fly and train as if my engine could quit at any time.

Free info, not necessarily worth much...I enjoy reading other's learning experiences when shared here on VAF and decided to contribute more than my donation to keep the website running.

My intention was not to mis-inform anyone, but to share my experience. Maybe it will help someone else consider a safety related maintenance item on their airplane or do some preventative maintenance that they had decided was okay to put off with no real reason why. Pass on by, ask questions, start your own thread outlining your experience so I can read it or send me a PM.

I learned some valuable information and knowingly purchased a flying RV-7 with things that had to be addressed when going from builder with repairman's certificate signed off condition inspections to A&P signed off condition inspections. The same thing could happen when switching A&Ps too, by the way.

If there's a DAR, FAA Maintenance Inspector, A&P, EAA Flight Advisor or other knowledgeable person who would like to share where I may be incorrect or where there are other options I'm excited to be learning more.

If you have a correction please share with me a source document or guidance if possible. Opinions are welcome as well and need to be identified as such. The benefit of this great resource here at VAF is that there are so many verified experienced people here that my information can be corrected if it is not right.

Thanks for all who are discussing maintenance topics here and on other threads. I'm looking forward to learning more.
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  #25  
Old 11-26-2020, 01:46 AM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 289
Post Reasons for oil sump removal

Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman View Post
Good write up...........

BUT, you don't need to remove the the sump to remove the accessory case.
Thanks for pointing out the oil sump did not NEED to be removed to pull the accessory case. That is true.

When I discussed the job of replacing the oil pump gears with the supervising A&P he cited the age of the engine (manufactured in 1983) and the fact that it had been in service since 2003 on this RV-7 that it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and pull the sump to accomplish a number of things:

1. Prevent possible future leaks from cutting and replacing only part of the oil sump gasket when installing the accessory case after new oil pump gears are fitted. He knows I'm going to run this engine well past recommended TBO if it's condition allows.

2. Experience. I'm a curious person and I enjoy working on my plane, so a good look at what is going on inside my engine was of interest to me. It took me two hours to remove the engine components and the sump. A few more hours to remove the accessory case, clean everything, replace the oil pump gears, safety wire the housing and get it all ready to go back together.

3. Sludge. The A&P was concerned about sludge building up inside the engine as he's seen it in other engines he's worked on. Looking at the sump with it off the plane would be a good way to see if there was any cause for concern with sludge build up. None found. Never run on semi-synthetic oil...

4. New gaskets. Having been in service for 17 years without much done to it my engine was going to get treated to new Teflon fluid hoses (9 years overdue) and new spark plugs since the old ones were pretty worn and of unknown age. Why not replace the intake and exhaust gaskets, lock washers and torque everything after it was cleaned?

5. Because...that's what the A&P felt was a good idea. If, after he inspected my work, he thought it was in a safe condition for flight it would be reflected as so in my aircraft log book. If I didn't like what he wanted I would have at least gotten a second opinion. Since I don't have the repairman's certificate for my RV-7 I'm dependent on the judgement of a trained, and in this case, an experienced mechanic who has seen a lot in his 30 years of working on certified and experimental airframes and engines. It is good to know who you are asking to look over your airplane and their credentials.

6. If I chose to sell my RV-7 right now I'm betting that having all Lycoming ADs, Hartzell ADs and Vans Service Bulletins complied with will fetch the highest price and quickest selling time. Having all of these documented and well presented in my aircraft servicing binder makes it easy to share that with a potential buyer.

Since my wife and I both fly the RV-7 its important to communicate with each other what is going on with the airplane, like a flying club or partnership. We use a flight-school-style Dispatch Binder to do that. It is check ride ready! LOL

Here's a screenshot of the original pdf, it has been updated for this year's Inspections and many entries are in the flight log now, discrepancies logged and cleared, SBs documented, ADs updated. Maybe you all use a similar thing to communicate when multiple pilots are flying one aircraft...
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  #26  
Old 11-26-2020, 03:16 AM
74-07 74-07 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 567
Default AD

Thanks again for this write up. Even though I had thoroughly researched my engine before I bought the plane, your thread nudged me to go back and look again. I too recently put all engine and airframe ADs/SBs on an excel spreadsheet and they are now stapled in the back of the respective logs. I too, have gone completely through my recently acquired RV-8 and replaced stuff (including all fluid lines) that others had found acceptable but I didn't. Extra unwarranted expense? Maybe but I sure feel good about it when my son and grandkids wave at me as they taxi out. I am a pilot and an A&P but more importantly, in my past life, I was responsible for the safe and efficient operation of a fleet of aircraft that were literally flying around the world each month. Before that, I flew in the Air Force. I learned very quickly that the outstanding maintenance guys in both of these operations were constantly sniffing out POTENTIAL problems before they became real ones. They were proactive versus reactive. As a result, I have had over 45 years of very enjoyable but unexciting flying. You are absolutely doing the right thing. In this business, just doing the bare minimum and hoping for the best will, at some point, result in unwanted excitement at best.

BTW, I'm not far from you. Perhaps, you and I can meet somewhere for lunch sometime.
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  #27  
Old 11-26-2020, 04:15 AM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 289
Thumbs up Proactive mx...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74-07 View Post
Thanks again for this write up. Even though I had thoroughly researched my engine before I bought the plane, your thread nudged me to go back and look again....You are absolutely doing the right thing. In this business, just doing the bare minimum and hoping for the best will, at some point, result in unwanted excitement at best.

BTW, I'm not far from you. Perhaps, you and I can meet somewhere for lunch sometime.

We will definitely need to get together and share experiences. I'm in between transponders at the moment as I get ready to update for ADS-B out and IFR, so I may have to meet you somewhere with accommodating airspace.

I regularly fly my 16, 14 and 11 year old kids. My wife and I also fly together. Safety is important to me. I don't want to introduce unnecessary opportunities for error or maintenance related wear and tear on my aircraft, but a FWF reset was definitely in my plan when I bought this flying airplane. Doing all this FWF heavy lifting now will give me a peace of mind when cruising in the clouds when I'm on an IFR flight plan after the panel is finished. Flushing out any issues while VFR is my plan for the next few months.

Thank you for your service 74-07.
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2020, 07:16 PM
FlyinTiger FlyinTiger is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gilbert, SC
Posts: 289
Talking EAA and AD Compliance

An article from some years ago caught my attention in another thread discussing a more costly crankshaft issue.

http://starduster.aircraftspruce.com...ges/25960.html

Food for thought anyway...my take on EAA's position is that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth stating that its a "good idea" but that it isn't legally required.

In the end, if you're like me and you bought your RV flying, the A&P putting a signature in your log book declaring the aircraft in a "safe condition" to fly will make that determination for you.

Fly safely folks...and practice those simulated engine out scenarios, brief every takeoff, even if it is only to yourself.
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  #29  
Old 12-18-2020, 08:00 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 2,855
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyinTiger View Post
... In the 200 hp RV-7 it goes like this...power is going in smoothly, engine instruments are in the green, the engine hits 2700 RPM as airspeed is rapidly increasing, and I'm airborne. ...
Thanks for your write-up. Very useful for future readers who find themselves in similar situations.

I won't comment on the AD compliance issue...Be good for a DAR (Mel?) to clarify, but perhaps in a separate thread.

I absolutely LOVE your description of the take-off in a 2-seat RV with a constant speed prop and an angle-valve 360. Folks, this process happens at just about exactly the pace that you can read FlyinTiger's description. I have also done take-offs in an RV-6 with an O-320 and fixed pitch prop, and after about 5 seconds, I started looking around for what might be wrong. "Why aren't I flying yet?". Certainly advantages to that approach to the light, economical RV. But you have not lived until you have done a take-off with 200Hp and a C/S prop. Of course, the Rocket guys would say the same thing to me and I have experienced that too - about the same TO with 2 people that I experience while solo.

Its all good!
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  #30  
Old 12-19-2020, 09:29 AM
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n82rb n82rb is offline
 
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Location: fort myers fl
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i have to disagree with you a few points, you chose to install a certified engine and prop, once they went on a EAB they are no longer certified as an EAB is not required to be maintained IAW FAR43. changing an accessory to a non PMA or STC'ed part makes it non comforming. although engine hoses are not part of the type certificate of the engine, using a line from TS on a certificated engine could be an issue. even though TS is my go to for experimental lines, because he does not have PMA, or TSO paperwork I do not use his lines on a certificated airplane.

you may choose to have all maintenance done by an A&P, but that does not keep it a certified engine. what does that mean? not much for an EAB, it just means that to take that engine off the EAB and install it in a certificated aircraft that engine or prop would need a IA to do, and document, a type certificate conformity inspection on the part before installing it on the certificated aircraft.

Even FAA guidance goes both ways on the issue of AD compliance, there are some AD's the just make sense to do even if they do not apply to EAB, the oil pump one I personally have done on my engine.

I give a big thumbs up for your attention to detail, and dedication to making your aircraft the safest It can be and not cutting any corners on it.
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