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Found Object Engineering II - or what to build now that the plane is "done"

selhardt

selhardt

Well Known Member
I have enough of an incline that if it is icy - it is always dicey whether my foot friction is less than plane friction or not.

So from the FOE department comes "winchy-mcplane-puller".

One ATV style winch, battery and wireless remote (wire harness needed some decoding), 4 inserts into the concrete floor and winchy pulls the plane while I steer.

It makes handy work of pulling the Cherokee up the ramp for the Mrs too!

2ewmn0k.jpg


As a side benefit, plane gets new battery, winchy gets the recycled one!
 
I use a similar remote control winch from Harbor Freight that cost about $70 IIRCC. I would guess that Warn winch is a good deal more.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
Remote

The wireless remote is a Warn accessory. PM me and I will send the schematics and photos.
 
We have icy aprons down here too ...

... and I came this close to buying the Harbor Freight winch last week. I can pull the plane out, taxi, take-off, land, and taxi back ..... just can't push the bird up the proverbial slippery slope. ;)
 
For a 7A, is it ok to attach the winch cable to the tail tiedown eyelet? I was wondering if that is strong enough?

I also thought about putting the nosewheel towbar on facing backwards and attaching the cable to the towbar to pull it in.

What do you all think is the best approach?
 
When I was in the Air Force in Germany in the mid-80s we used a similiar system to winch F-15s backward into their Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS). There was a long bridle like cable that attached to the tie downs on the mains and that cable was connected to a single cable attached to a large winch bolted to the floor in the back of the HAS. For steering, the crewchief used a steering bar on the nose gear, the operation was controlled by a wired remote that clipped into a deal on the steering bar. Two mainitainers, one running the tow bar/winch set-up and one riding brakes just-in-case, could winch an Eagle backwards into a HAS only a few minutes.

I'm sure such a set up, properly configured and sized for an RV as a one-person operation, could be useable for an A model nosedragger RV; but I'll defer to the experts on that matter. As far as a Dragontail goes... ???
 
Pulling up the slope

I attach the winch line (it is synthetic - which I like, less chance to scratch something) to a nylon strap aound nose strut on the cherokee - as low as possible. This allows me to use the bogi bar to steer the nose wheel. I DON'T pull by the tail tie down.

In my installation, the winch is free to pivot, making it a straight line pull. I can steer the nose wheel between the width of the main wheels when pulling the cherokee backwards.

On the RV-8, I use the same nylon strap to the vertical part of the tail wheel bearing, again I can use my bogi bar to steer, but need less steering cuz for me, this is a straight pull.

I have put multiple holes in the concrete so it is easy and quick to re-position the winch and since it is all self contained, nothing to unplug etc.

The wireless remote is like a key fob that you can actuate while steering.
 
tiedown eyelet

Hi
I am interested in the answer for the tiedown eyelet too. I need to back my rv-10 in my hangar and even if there is almost no slope, with the ice in the winter, i can fly 45 minutes and spend 45 minutes too to back up the rv in the hangar.
I try to find a good tug of if i can pull it with a winch on the tiedown eyelet of the tail, it would be cheaper . I tought about it but was afraid to do it.
 
Another solution

I had the same problem getting up an icy apron, and was considering a winch arrangement. Then it occurred to me to simply attach a long rope to the towbar, and stand inside the hangar to pull the airplane in. Works like a charm.

The winch is way more cool though!
 
I don't know the "answer" to your question, but my hangar has quite a slope and its hard to get the plane inside in the ice/snow but the hangar came with a winch and so I've used it for several years to pull the plane in, tail first, by the tiedown. I haven't noticed any stress on the airframe during the condition inspections, but thats not to say I'm not putting stress where there shouldn't be stress. Everyone in my complex pulls their planes in tail first with a winch... (all larger singles) but no other RV's......

I'm sure that muddys the water a bit....

Kurt Klewin
Bozeman, MT
N85KC, RV6A
 
Lan Vinh Do said:
Hi
I am interested in the answer for the tiedown eyelet too. I need to back my rv-10 in my hangar and even if there is almost no slope, with the ice in the winter, i can fly 45 minutes and spend 45 minutes too to back up the rv in the hangar.
I try to find a good tug of if i can pull it with a winch on the tiedown eyelet of the tail, it would be cheaper . I tought about it but was afraid to do it.
Click to expand...


I use a winch on my -10 due to a slope into my T-hanger. I estimated the max load to be 130 lbs at a 30 degree angle. The structure is relatively robust, it has to be able to withstand wind loads when tied down and easily handles the vertical load to lift the nose off the ground. I did make sure the tie down ring was all the way against the fuselage to reduce any bending loads. Careful inspection and monitoring shows no issues to date.

I use an ATV winch which came with a useless wireless remote with a range of less than 8 ft. I took an old 100 ft extension cord and wired it to the winch handlebar controls. It works great, I can easily get it in the hanger myself.

If you have virtually no slope and are only dealing with ice there should be absolutely no issues.
 
Lan Vinh Do said:
Hi
I am interested in the answer for the tiedown eyelet too. I need to back my rv-10 in my hangar and even if there is almost no slope, with the ice in the winter, i can fly 45 minutes and spend 45 minutes too to back up the rv in the hangar.
I try to find a good tug of if i can pull it with a winch on the tiedown eyelet of the tail, it would be cheaper . I tought about it but was afraid to do it.
Click to expand...

I have been using my winch for the last 3 winters. It is mounted on the back wall of my hangar at the same height as the tail eyelet on my -10, so there is no downward loading on the tail cone. No evidence of damage. Since I can push or pull the -10 by myself when the ground is dry, I think the pull force of the winch is less than 150-175 lbs.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
On the cheap

Same problem - icy ramp, wet feet on concrete. Had one experience where my feet went out from under me and banged my head on the concrete.

I had an old boat winch at home that didnt have a use, and there was a place to mount it at the back wall of the hanger. Bought some 1/8 steel cable and attached it to my tow bar, the other end to the winch. Took the handle off the winch and use my 1/2" drill (with a socket chucked in) to spin the winch. Works like a charm.
 
Taildrgr said:
For a 7A, is it ok to attach the winch cable to the tail tiedown eyelet? I was wondering if that is strong enough?
Click to expand...

I've seen damaged tail tie downs from that approach. My guess is the tie down's are designed to handle loads more or less in the vertical plane, rather than a horizontal load like from a winch.
 
Option to Winch

Another option to a winch is to use a rope and a pulley. If you can get a straight pull, attach one end of the rope at least twice the length as the desired pull to an anchor(back of hangar, bolt in floor etc.), on the rope put a pulley with an eye to attach a separate piece of rope. Attach the separate rope from the pulley to the plane. Now with the pulley attached to the plane, the rope running from the anchor through the pulley and back to your hands somewhere near the anchor you have a 2:1 advantage and your feet are on dry ground.

This system is considerbly cheaper and quicker to deploy.

Just another option, Al
 
OFFICIAL ANSWER FROM VAN'S

I was really going toward the winch. We have a piper dakota and my rv-10 in our hangar space. A power tug for both need to change adaptor. A winch would be perfect.
I ask van's support and there is the answer.

We would NOT recommend trying to tow the airplane backwards by the tiedown eyelet. It
just isn't intended for that and you'd probably bend at least the eyelet, which in turn, could
damage the airframe.



Forwarded by: "Support" <Support>
Forwarded to: KenS

Hi
I have a rv-10
I have some trouble to back the airplane in the hangar in the winter
because of the ice. There is almost no slope in front of my hangar but
no grip when there is ice Can i use a winch on the tail tiedown eyelet
to help me to back the aircraft while i am stearing the nose wheel. I
haven't tried it because i don't know if it can support the stress
laterally

Lan Vinh Do
 
If they don't want us pulling from the rear tiedown, couldn't you make some sort of small rope/cable harness that hooked to the tow bar behind the front wheel? Hook the winch to that, and the forces would be the same as if you were pushing on the tow bar.
 
simple solution for me

If they don't want us pulling from the rear tiedown, couldn't you make some sort of small rope/cable harness that hooked to the tow bar behind the front wheel? Hook the winch to that, and the forces would be the same as if you were pushing on the tow bar.

I found a simple solution

Stupid that i didn't tink to this before.
I always have push my plane backward in the hangar ( i was in a T-hangar before)

I have enough place now in my new hangar that i can pull my plane in the hangar nose first ( with my feet inside the hangar) and push it bak outside to go fly)

No winch, no power tow.
 
Scott...

Scott...

Do you have any pictures from the other side? In particular, was wondering if you have a view of the locking pin or what ever you use to secure to the concrete floor. I am envisioning a single pin toward the back of the trolley, such that the winchy can rotate some? Did you use an "off the shelf" trolley? or did you fabricate that too? It looks like it could have been made from a snowmobile dolly?

Thanks!
Bryan
 
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