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To re-paint or wrap?

WingnutWick

Well Known Member
Hello,

Looking to help my girlfriend out with her RV-6A. It has an old, underwhealming paint job and she is wanting to get it re-done. Been throwing around the wrap idea and looking for any input on that if anyone has experience.

Otherwise, would like to go with a new paint job. Given the costs and seeing as I am one for a new challenge I am debating whether or not to tackle this job myself. I have never painted an airplane (or any vehicle for that matter) and am looking for a good resource for how to do this and what product to use to make a nice paint job. Unfortunately there aren?t many posts under Painting your RV thread. I figured there would be a thread that outlines this step by step. Any pointing in the right direction in the regards of how to do this with a pre-existing paint job is much appreciated!

Thank you

Charles
 
With wrap, just wondering how do people check rivets for possible cracks? Do cracks show up under the wrap?
 
I am still very far from finishing my RV8 build. I am planning to paint it myself by learning from Youtube. Checkout this video from Eastwood which shows you how to paint your car without very complicated setup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw0ObOdWnRE

If you want a perfect paint job, here is a video of painting of a Porsche. I suspect this is the heavy paint option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BV0PMYfc3o

My neighbor primed his classic car in his garage and rented a paint booth to put on the finishing coats. The rental fee was less than $500 for 11 hours. It took him and his buddy all 11 hours to get everything done.
 
Throughly enjoyed the Eastwood video. However, watching it only made me feel better about buying a completed aircraft. Also why I?m glad I didn?t try painting my first two planes. Having them done professionally was money well spent, not to mention the time I spent with family, rather than prepping and painting.
 
The last thing she wants is a lousypaint job, but a novice can do it if he gets some basic instruction and uses good paint and equipment. None of which is cheap and may not be worth it for one job.
With wrap, it works for stripes and graphics, but I would not use it for a complete aircraft, and definitely not on control surfaces. An RV7 was lost a year or two ago in NZ and there was some reason to think that the recently applied wrap was the cause. Remember what happened to legendary Steve Wittman when something similar happened to him, although it was fabric in his case.
 
I did a full wrap myself but there was no old paint to deal with. I?m sure you?d have to get the loose paint off first. In my opinion, the wrap is easier, faster, lighter (50%), and cheaper than paint, requires no harsh chemicals or special equipment or spray booth. 3 years and 230hrs including very cold temperatures up here in Canada and it?s holding up very well. It?s parked in a hangar which probably makes a difference. I would do it again. Bevan.
 
Bevan,
Did you perform any surface preps (alodine?) to your bare aluminum skins prior to laying down the wrap? Did you perform any special cleaning of the surface prior to the wrap? I am heading for a full wrap on my project.
Gregg
 
As a guy who has been painting light aircraft since 1985, I would try the new high end wraps before I tried to teach myself how to paint. I have many thousands of dollars of painting equipment and many years of experience and I still can mess up a paint job. The trick is to know how to fix it. Learning how to wrap is much faster than the years it takes to master the perfect paint job, plus if you mess up, just peel off and start over. The lack of negative health affects is a HUGE bonus also! I always use aluminum cleaner and Alodine 1200 with high quality strontium chromate primer for maximum corrosion protection. The hexavalent chromium in the Alodine is definitely a huge health concern. I would be concerned about corrosion under the vinyl if the aircraft lived in a coastal environment. I have restored many 1940's aircraft with no primer on internal aluminum parts and they still looked like new when the aircraft lived in a dry climate it's entire life. Enough rambling for now.

Fly Safe,
Phil
 
Vinyl wrap lighter than paint?

]... In my opinion, the wrap is easier, faster, lighter (50%), ...

Something here does not add up.
Tracy Crook just told me he covered his RV-4 with paint just thick enough to cover it, 7 lbs. Aludined but no primer.
Specs on 3M 1080 is 0.5 oz / sqft. 7 lbs of wrap would cover 224 sqft. Wings alone on an RV-4 is 200 sq ft.

So is wrap actually lighter than the lightest possible pain job?

Has anyone here calculated the entire (outside) surface area of an RV-4?

Finn
 
Here's KELLI GIRL's wrap journey

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=132000

Note that AircraftWraps.com is no longer in business (he simply moved on to other exciting chapters of his life), but the wrap is a viable full-aircraft solution. The only things painted are the prop spinner and tire fairings: They're too much of a compound curve for the wrap to sit.

Some questions I saw in the previous threads:
- Alodine or priming? Nope, not required. The surface does get cleaned, but I don't know the process used.
- Fiberglass prep? Yes, you need to make the surface prep complete, because the wrap shrinks down into imperfections and accentuates them. However, pinholes need not be filled (yay!).
- Weight of the wrap? About half the weight of paint.
- Do rivet cracks show up under the wrap? I suspect no. The wrap shrinks down quite nicely to the rivets to show significant rivet detail, but I can't swear it'd reveal a cracked rivet (but I've never heard of that...is that really a thing?).

After 3+years and 700+ hours, I have these observations regarding the wrap:
- The wrap is not as hardy as paint against hangar rash. However, it is far easier to repair a wrap.
- It is easier to clean, but also easier to scuff.
- KELLI GIRL gained about 4-5 knots with the wrap. It gained 3 of those knots from aerodymanics, and 2 knots on flat-out good looks.

Am I glad I wrapped KELLI GIRL? Heck yes! :cool:
 
I really want to get to the bottom of this.

Did you mean "About half the weight of a similar elaborate paint job and primer"?

Not having painted any vehicle or plane, I certainly would prefer wrap.
How about cost of paint vs vinyl for a real simple one-color job?

Finn

My wrapper told me that the weight of the material actually applied to my aircraft weighs about half of what such a paint job would have weighed.

This wrap job cost me $9500 in 2015. The 2015 estimate from Brandon at GLO Custom Paint for the same design was $13500. I did not price ?real simple one-color jobs.?
 
My RV-8 has a 7 color paint job that is very close to the P-51 Gun Fighter paint scheme.

Those 7 colors added 19lbs to my -8

My friend told me that 19lbs of paint is nothing! Compared to the weight I added priming the inside parts! :D
 
Just one data piont

I painted my plane with PPG Omni, 2 colors, base white, yellow second color on half the airframe. The surface area was 482ft^2 (not an RV). The paint weight came out to 20.8lbs. (.69oz/ft^2). I did try to keep it light but I am an amateur. At the 3M vinyl number of .5oz/ft^2 I would have weighed 15.3lbs.

I unfortunately don't have the total bill but I spent about $1400 for all the painting fluids (primer, paint, thinners, solvents,etc) and probably another $1200 for the paint guns, sanding gear, masking supplies, respirators temporary paint booth construction, etc. Looking at the pricing of the 3M vinyl it looks like about $3/ft^2 for the material. So it would be $1450 in material to cover my plane, assume I scrap half of the material learning and pattern waste ($725) for a total of $2175.

I have been playing with the vinyl on some airplane type parts and it seems not too difficult to work with. (famous last words..)

I am going to try vinyl on my upcoming project, less exposure risk to toxic substances, less mess and cleanup, something new to learn and I may even save a few bucks and a couple of pounds.

YMMV

Gregg
 
Vinyl wrap 6A

For the low cost of materials, I decided to experiment with installing the vinyl wrap myself for this last plane. Turned out great!

I did decide to prime the aluminum first though - 9 cans of Rustoleum rattle can primer = $45.00 (note not all brands of rattle can primer sticks well to vinyl, experiment with one can first before you buy a bunch)

Vinyl (3M 1080) & materials $3200

Time to apply with 2 guys that didn't know what they were doing at first - 48 hrs x 2 = 96 hrs. I should note we got the cowl, wheel pants, spinner, & intersection fairing painted for $1300

So including the painted parts total DIY outlay for the job was $4545.00 (thats $3408 usd!) & includes some wasted vinyl for the learning experience

So would I do it again? For my own planes- Sure. For my customer planes - Na, their investment warrants going for a good quality primer/paint job.
 
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Vinyl

For what it's worth, my plan is to wrap myself. To that end, I wanted some light protection so the exterior was scuffed and Alodined. Actually no weight added. I plan to paint fiberglass parts rather than fight with wrapping curves. The rest will be a solid color. Boring but light.
 
A local painter who painted a friend?s RV (primer, base, clear) confessed it probably added 55lb after a couple minutes of figuring. I didn?t want a single stage basic paint job so this it what I was comparing to. I weighed the vinyl on my gram scale and multiplied by the estimated square footage of the complete airframe and added 10% for overlap and errors, I estimated 17lb, 20lb tops.

I did not alodine as the skins are alclad already and I?m trying to avoid chemical exposure.

The vinyl is not perfect (my paint job would be far from perfect) but it?s holding up well and I can replace it in the future.

I may have spent $2500 on vinyl (I have lots left over), and $3000 for the painter to paint the cowl, wing tips, pants and leg fairings. He also filled all the pin holes.

I?m very saticefied. Bevan

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A local painter who painted a friend’s RV (primer, base, clear) confessed it probably added 55lb after a couple minutes of figuring.


I am sure that estimate is the shipping weight of the paint. Most of my paint / primer weighs about 8+ pounds per gallon, not including the container, and expect something in the neighborhood of 3 pounds once dry. Some stuff evaporates more, some less. If a painter puts 55 pounds of dry paint on your plane, he is either a really bad painter or trying to sell you more paint than you need.

Don't forget that most guns are about 65% efficient, so 1/3 of the paint used ends up on the shop floor or exhausted out of the shop for the neighbors to enjoy.

Larry
 
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The effects of fuel on vinyl have not been discussed.
A small leak or overflow that is not wiped up immediately
will destroy vinyl. I have found that oil stains vinyl as well.
I have used vinyl for insignia and lettering but will not use
it on the belly or near the fuel filler.
 
The effects of fuel on vinyl have not been discussed.
A small leak or overflow that is not wiped up immediately
will destroy vinyl. I have found that oil stains vinyl as well.
I have used vinyl for insignia and lettering but will not use
it on the belly or near the fuel filler.

That is not my experience, so it’d be interesting to know what vinyl material you’re using. KELLI GIRL has the aviation/airline grade 3M vinyl. Fuel and oil have zero effect. I clean it with alcohol/water mix from a spray bottle. The belly requires automotive Purple Power and elbow grease.
 
magical vinyl number?

Sid, would love to know the actual part number of the vinyl used on Kelli Girl.
3M only makes about a million different products ( seriously!) and even though I work in the graphics business, I have trouble finding 'the right stuff'.

much appreciated whatever clues you can provide!?
 
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Yes, Sid, me too, please.

Some of the commercial jobs are reported to use Avery & 3M products. I know the 1080 Series is one of the types used, but if there are others, it'd be good to know.

Thanks.
 
Sid, would love to know the actual part number of the vinyl used on Kelli Girl.
3M only makes about a million different products ( seriously!) and even though I work in the graphics business, I have trouble finding 'the right stuff'.

much appreciated whatever clues you can provide!?

Ditto! The guy that does my vinyl is asking his distributor. No word yet.
 
Myself, and several other Rv's at my field have used 3M series 1080, I have found the best price and service from Fellers.com
 
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