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ANR headsets and the FAA

Say again...

What did you say, I couldn't hear you...:) Next they'll say my sunglasses are too dark...

RR
 
Hearing loss

I'd imagine 100 or so hours in the RV without ANR (or some snug system like a HALO insert) would result in enough hearing loss to miss the calls also. ;)

Seriously, when I lift up the cup to my headset in flight the amount of noise can be painful.

b,
d
 
The FAA's just ticked off that there's SOMETHING in aviation that:

1) Works
2) Is reasonably priced

This triggered an emergency commitee into action to look for ways of levying additional regulations, thereby sending the pricing back through the roof where it belongs.

"We're not happy, till your not happy...."

edit: In case anyone is wondering, this post is meant to be humorous and is in no way faulting the FAA for looking at this issue. It's my sincerest hope that the FAA recommended actions finally puts an end to all the needless taxiway accidents, engine failures and unclear communications caused by ANR headsets.
 
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jcoloccia said:
The FAA's just ticked off that there's SOMETHING in aviation that:

1) Works
2) Is reasonably priced

This triggered an emergency commitee into action to look for ways of levying additional regulations, thereby sending the pricing back through the roof where it belongs.

"We're not happy, till your not happy...."
Click to expand...

When I read your post I LOL'd then I cried because you are right.
:(
 
jcoloccia said:
This triggered an emergency commitee into action to look for ways of levying additional regulations, thereby sending the pricing back through the roof where it belongs.
Click to expand...
John - This InFO isn't a regulation, it is only a statement of a potential issue, and a recommendation. Which part of it do you disagree with?

Certainly the ANR would have to cancel a lot more noise than the ANR I've used for there to be a safety concern. But in theory, if the ANR was too effective, maybe there could be an issue.
 
Kevin Horton said:
John - This InFO isn't a regulation, it is only a statement of a potential issue, and a recommendation. Which part of it do you disagree with?

Certainly the ANR would have to cancel a lot more noise than the ANR I've used for there to be a safety concern. But in theory, if the ANR was too effective, maybe there could be an issue.
Click to expand...

I updated my post.
 
LifeofReiley said:
Now this is weird. The government (FAA) acting PRO-Active? Usually their 30 years behind the times... :confused:
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking. Is there a problem or is some bureaucrat (boy was that hard to look up in the dictionary) sitting behind a desk in some closet dreaming this stuff up.

Are there accident or incident reports where this was a problem? More than one?

Karl
 
smokyray said:
Next they'll say my sunglasses are too dark...

RR
Click to expand...
I've been told in Austrialia it is illegal to fly with polorized glasses. "They" claim it may hamper you seeing a glint of a survival mirrior, another plane, ect.
 
Geico266 said:
I've been told in Austrialia it is illegal to fly with polorized glasses. "They" claim it may hamper you seeing a glint of a survival mirrior, another plane, ect.
Click to expand...

That's actually a good idea. My "flying" sunglasses, even my prescription ones, are non-polarized. Ever try reading an LCD screen with polarized glasses :)

I guess it's not really a problem in most spam cans but experimentals are just so darn ahead of everything else with glass panels and things!
 
This thread reminds me of something I remember reading about how the Coast Guard (or maybe someother branch) has stopped using ANR headsets after seeing some hearing loss in pilots who use them.

Seems that the very quietness that we all really like about the ANR sets actually causes the ear to react by becoming very sensitive and thus some of the sound that does get thru (in different freq ranges) does some harm.

I don't remember where I saw this (or maybe its just a figment of my imagination...).

Deene.
 
I seem to recall something about that but I thought it was more due to the ANR not doing such a hot job of cancelling the high frequency turbine whine. I can tell you that the AirForce uses the Bose sets in at least some of it's activities.

I think it's all about having the right tool for the right job.

Here's a great link, by the way. There's a very good article on hearing loss in here. The whole issue is fantastic, in fact.

http://www.casa.gov.au/fsa/1997/aut/AUTUMN97.pdf
 
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Steve said:
The FAA is concerned your ANRs may be cancelling pertinent data.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/

Steve
Click to expand...

Say again on VHF!

Actually, they are right about there being differences with ANR headsets. Some do work better than others, some block strange noises that maybe we ought to hear.

It was about 6 years ago, I was all relaxed and cruising home from SNF at 10.5 just past Auburn, Alabama, when I lifted the ANR headset to relieve a hot spot and heard this unusual clicking noise along with all the other noises of a Lycoming.

Hmm, I thought, wonder what that is?? I put the headset back on and the noise went away - well, isn't that interesting. Can't be anything too serious thought the dumb pilot, noise went away, must have imagined something.

About a minute later all heck broke lose when the broken #4 exhaust pipe finally came all the way out of the Cozy cowl and went through the prop. It has been sticking out and made contact with each blade. One blade of the 3 left the airplane. The immediate violent shaking was totally frightning but somehow the brain told the right hand to pull the mixture as the left raised the nose to reduce airspeed and in about as long as it take to say, OH SHxT, the vibration stopped and all was calm and quiet. The flight ended without further incident as a totally numb pilot glided to Auburn while ATC called the brigade. Took 2 weeks to fix the machine and get up the nerve to fly it home.

The headset really didn't cause the incident, just hid it for as long as possible. I might have gone in and landed without the ANR since it was such an unusual noise but it probably would have come apart anyhow. I do use the ANR with Subby, but it is not as effective as with Lyc because the noise is a different frequency.

Anyone using a good passive headset? They don't cost that much and I've been thinking about trying one.
 
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Hopefully sooner or later there will be more complex ANRs coming which can be taught what is noise. When flying normally engage "learning mode" for a while. After that headset should know what to block. If something differs from that (something unusual happens) it would pass it to the ear. The teaching could be a way more complicated too, but the basic principle would be like that. However as I quess you there (US) have often own headsets when renting a plane, the situation would become a harder. As the teaching is done per plane so all different planes would need own profiles or similar to work effectively...

Technically I would say that this is like a step from passive to ANR so we might expect much higher price tags. I quess we also have to forget batteries and run headsets from real power source as there has to be much more electronics to implement something like that. And the attenuation at normal situations should become even better than it has been before.

IMHO ANR is a good thing but a development shouldn't stop where we are now as there are some lacks which might lead us to situations where we wouldn't be with them.
 
ANR Headsets

I use a Telex ANR 500 in the B737-800, and it deals with the at/below 1000 hz wind/equip noise of this airplane very well. It is TSO'ed. For GA use, Telex has a digital ANR headset that concentrates on prop and engine noise at around 100hz, and even claims to learn the normal noises of your cockpit, and cancel them. While there is a possibility of even a passive headset blocking a noise you WANT to hear, hearing loss considerations are a certainty, as is better intelligibility of intercom and radio communications. Also, noise causes fatigue. The active noise reduction/response curves are published for both these headsets.

Anyone using the Telex Stratus 50 Digital? Something better? Please post a review.
 
Bose X

We use the Bose here in the USAF E-3 (AWACS) world. However, since I'm an "old" guy I love my DC's with the Oregon Aero "Hush Kit" installed. So, when I got the Bose, I did not like having the aircraft/engine noises blocked so well. The fix for me was to turn off the noise cancelling and just use them as regular lightweight headsets.

Would I pay the money for Bose X's? Nope. I'd opt for a cheaper set.

Just my input.

BTW the Bose do make GREAT headsets to wear around the house. With 3 teenagers etc. I can sit down at the computer and not even know anyone else is home! :p
 
Quiet Technologies Halo

I love my QT Halo headset. No batteries, no power connections, no Mickey Mouse ears, no head-in-a-vise, no problem with glasses or any hat I want to wear, etc. It addresses most of the problems of wearing a headset.

I can't testify I can hear those peculiar noises better with my QT Halo than with an ANR, but I believe I can. And I've worn Telex, Lightspeed and Bose.

Check the Halo's out. http://www.quiettechnologies.com/

YMMV. Some have tried the Halo's and prefer an ANR. But I like mine and wouldn't go back. IMHO, QT's HALO headset is definitely worthy of consideration.

Don
 
From my cold, dead head... the ANR that is. Depending on which, ANR can hide the engine noise, I prefer a headset like Lightspeed's QFRxc, great passive, and a light ANR topping. My set got stolen, right now I'm using a Sigtronics ANR set, which is OK. The Lightspeed 20-3G tunes a little too much engine noise out, as do the Bose, at least that's what I think.
 
I read only the first part of the article, but it seemed to be implying that pilots who wore ANR Headsets might not hear cockpit alarms NOT TIED INTO THE INTERCOM.

Soooo....

Unless you have stall horns or other warning devices that blare directly into the cabin instead of beeping over the intercom, there is no problem.

Please feel free to point out anything I missed in the remaining 80% of the article...

:)
 
Those Jets get quieter every year!

Well after 25+ years being around loud jets they just get quieter every year, ANR or no. I wear a Bose QC2 ANR with a uflymike addition for my day job at SW, a great headset! I've worn a military helmet now for 25 years with earplugs and no ANR. I have a Lightspeed XC ANR in my RV4 and bought a used Bose X for my small business. To compare all of them I tried them inflight one by one in the Bandit (my RV4) at cruise speed. The difference was subtle, but definite, even with my jaded eardrums. The Bose X actually took third place, The QC2 won with the XC a close second. I have been told the QC2 was designed to filter high-end jet noise better, but the bandits low-end growl was reduced beautifully as well.
The QC2 only needs a single aaa battery and you can get them on ebay for under $100. You can also carry it around with your IPOD and the uflymike has a plug in for tunes while you're flying, if you so desire. The uflymike unplugs and it becomes a QC2 for travel or at home.
For grins I also tried my Lightspeed XC non-anr with 22 db passive and suprisingly it was very close to the Bose X. Overall, mo money doesn't mean mo headset. I like the little QC2/uflymike alot.

Rob Ray

www.uflymike.com
 
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