SkyView 2.6, Transponders, and ARINC-429 Shipping

I just sent the following announcement to our newsletter subscribers, and thought it might be of interest here as well.
-Robert
Dynon Marketing
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Now Shipping!

New SkyView 2.6 Firmware: SkyView firmware 2.6 adds the ability to alert and display air traffic graphically. Traffic alerts will show up on SkyView?s moving map and synthetic vision displays using standard TCAS 1 symbols, identifying the location, severity of threat, distance, vertical separation and heading of any aircraft within the traffic system range. Pilots will have immediate situational awareness of traffic that they can easily track.

Within the United States, SkyView displays TIS traffic when connected to Dynon?s SV-XNPNR-261 or SV-XPNDR-262 Mode-S transponders, or a Garmin GTX 330 Mode-S transponder. TIS is a ground-based system available in all Class B and some Class C airspace where most traffic conflicts arise. It uses the same radar that is used by controllers.

SkyView also receives traffic information from a Zaon XRX passive traffic receiver, a NavWorx ADS-B receiver, a Trig ADS-B receiver, or any device that outputs the industry standard GTX 330 TIS traffic format. This capability allows SkyView?s new traffic feature to be used anywhere in the world, utilizing different traffic receiver technologies.

Enhanced Redundancy - Wiring Change Required: To enhance multi-display redundancy in version 2.6 firmware, external serial devices must now have their serial port inputs and outputs connected to all displays in a multi-display SkyView system. This wiring change must be made at the same time SkyView is upgraded to 2.6. See the Dynon Blog for a full description of which systems are effected and detailed wiring instructions.

New Mode S SV-XPNDR-262 and SV-XPNDR-261 Transponders: These new transponders are integrated into SkyView, with control and annunciation appearing on the SkyView Display. The transponder module is small and light, so it can be mounted anywhere in the airplane that is convenient. There are two models: the SV-XPNDR-261 for high performance aircraft, and the SV-XPNDR-262 for aircraft flying less than 15,000' and 175 Knots. The only difference between the two is the output power. Both add TIS traffic information. (Note, TIS traffic is only available in the U.S. in many Class B and C airspaces with radar coverage. SkyView can also receive traffic information from the Zaon XRX, NavWorx, and GTX 330 products.) Also, both products are certified and will meet the FAA ADS-B 2020 mandate. (Full ADS-B Out compliance will require that a TSO-C146A GPS be connected.)

New SV-ARINC-429 Module: The SkyView SV-ARINC-429 Module delivers on the promise to make SkyView compatible with certified GPS receivers, integrating with radios such as the Garmin 430/530. This includes advanced features such as GPS steering, CDI auto-scaling and vertical guidance information from WAAS-enabled GPS receivers. This Module also enables the full suite of G430/530 VOR and localizer functionality. With the addition of this module, SkyView eliminates the need to install a conventional CDI/GS head for the Garmin 430/530.

For more information about these new products, please visit our Website at www.dynonavionics.com.

Go Fly!
-Your Dynon Team

So if I have two Skyview displays, and one 430, do I have to have an AIRINC box for each display now?

No, you only need one ARINC module per airplane.

No, the ARINC-429 adapter communicates through the SkyView Network, which is inherently redundant and will communication with both displays.

However for serial connected devices (like a transponder), typically a Receive line can only receive from one Transmit line (or else it would get confused). So a serial device could not receive data from two Displays. But we added some intelligence so that only one display is controlling such a device at a time, and if it goes offline the other display will take over.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing

Arinc-429

Hello Robert ( Dynon Support )

I just receive my new to me Skyview today and I must say that I like what I'm seeing so far...( Imagine how it's gonna be when I turn the unit ''ON''..)

Regarding the Arinc-429 Box, could you tell me if I can hook it up to an Avmap EKP 4 Portable WASS GPS and then get the extra capabilities of my Skyview?

Also, I already have a good transponder (GTX-327 ) and I like to know if I will gain anything my installing the Dynon Transponder?

I would like the ADS-B capability but leaving in Canada, I don't think we will see an ADS-B system for a long time in the future.

I won't be able to test fly it for a few months due to the aircraft being in storage for the winter but can I connect my Display directly to an aircraft battery without risking blowing it( I like to learn how to play with it and do the updates if I can during the quiet months)?

Sorry about all these questions but I'm like a kid with a new toy and I'll like to know all I can do with this new device.

Thank you for your time

Bruno Dionne
[email protected]

Bruno,
The ARINC box is only for panel mounted GPS units. Your Avmap will do everything it can do over the simple one wire serial connection.

In Canada the main thing the transponder will get you is Mode-S, which isn't a huge deal for now. Using our transponder will save you a lot of panel space though. In the USA, the transponder gets traffic, and in Europe Mode-S is about to be legally required.

You can hook the screen to an aircraft battery with no problems and it should boot right up for you to try out.

I'm probably asking a really dumb question here, but can you have a NavWorx ADS-B box and a Zaon XRX talking to the SkyView system at the same time to cover both radar and ADS-B traffic?

Not a dumb question, but the answer is no, you cannot hook up two traffic receiver devices.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing

RV-4 said:

Also, I already have a good transponder (GTX-327 ) and I like to know if I will gain anything my installing the Dynon Transponder?

Click to expand...

Actually, the new SkyView v2.6 software will see your GTX327, and display the transponder code/function/reply on the SkyView screen.

You would gain ADSB-out and TIS traffic (in some areas) with the Dynon transponder see here: http://blog.dynonavionics.com/2010/07/making-sense-of-ads-b-and-tis.html Not to mention some panel space. The GTX327 costs about the same as the Dynon unit.

DFlyer said:

New Mode S SV-XPNDR-262 and SV-XPNDR-261 Transponders: These new transponders are integrated into SkyView, with control and annunciation appearing on the SkyView Display. The transponder module is small and light, so it can be mounted anywhere in the airplane that is convenient. There are two models: the SV-XPNDR-261 for high performance aircraft, and the SV-XPNDR-262 for aircraft flying less than 15,000' and 175 Knots. The only difference between the two is the output power. Both add TIS traffic information. (Note, TIS traffic is only available in the U.S. in many Class B and C airspaces with radar coverage. SkyView can also receive traffic information from the Zaon XRX, NavWorx, and GTX 330 products.) Also, both products are certified and will meet the FAA ADS-B 2020 mandate. (Full ADS-B Out compliance will require that a TSO-C146A GPS be connected.)

Click to expand...

I likely won't be flying much if at all near or above 15000 ft, but RV's are capable. Should I surrender the option, or go with the high performance transponder just in case? It'd be nice to know I could get up there if I wanted to. Did Dynon have particular aircraft in mind when designing the -261?
Thanks!

Mike,
The 15,000 FT, 175KT limit is a TSO limit, not something we came up with. Certification requires a certain amount of output power if the aircraft is above 15K FT or 175 kts. We sell both because the amplifier to meet the higher power costs more and thus we felt it made sense to pass on the lower priced unit to aircraft that can use it.

If you NEVER exceed these either because the aircraft isn't capable or because you set these limits as an operating limitation, then you can use the less expensive model. But if you want to have the option to go above 15K, you need the more expensive one.

dynonsupport said:

... if you want to have the option to go above 15K, you need the more expensive one.

Click to expand...

Although that is exactly right, from the regulatory point of view, the practical answer is that no-one will ever know if you have the lower powered (cheaper) version and occasionally go above 15K' - it will keep working and you will have a few $$ for extra gas!

Pete

Arinc-429

Robert & Lance
Thank you for the info, it's appreciated.

Robert, I've got a King KLX-35A installed in the panel, could this GPS work with the Arinc or does it have to be only a WASS GPS?

I hooked up the display to an aircraft battery tonight and the unit does powered up enough to go to the page containing the software version then it turns itself off...Could be the battery or something else...any idea???
Also, do I need to hook up the ADHARS if I only wanna play with it??

Lance, that's good info to know, I may end up connecting it to the Skyview..

Thanks again

Bruno
[email protected]

Xponder

Will the Dynon transponders interface with the D-100 gear, and if not, are there plans to interface it with the legacy equipment in the near future??

Thanks,
Chris

Dear Robert (Dynon Support)

I have a 2x 10" display, 2 adahars, AP, GPS ans AP setup. I also have a Garmin 695 driving the AP as well as a Zaon XRX interfacing with the 695. Once I update to 2.6 will traffic now shown on the 695 be automatically shown on skyview? Will I need to rewire, even though I will not install the dynon transponder (already have a a tx on panel)?

Thank you

Moura

However, if I understand...

penguin said:

Although that is exactly right, from the regulatory point of view, the practical answer is that no-one will ever know if you have the lower powered (cheaper) version and occasionally go above 15K' - it will keep working and you will have a few $$ for extra gas!

Pete

Click to expand...

...it correctly, the communications with the ground stations should be a little better with the higher power transponder, even below 15,000 ft.

This might make a difference out in the mountainous Western states.

Can someone confirm this?

One Stop Shopping With Dynon

This is all really nice, but there is still that big hole in the system that is very expensive to fill. The way I understand it, you are going to, eventually, need a TSO-C146a WAAS GPS. That's a panel mounted GPS, like a GNS 400. That's a $6K plus item! Why can't the the GPS that is built into the Skyview fill that ADS-B requirement, now that Dynon's mode S xponder is available?

Tom

DFlyer said:

Traffic alerts will show up on SkyView?s moving map and synthetic vision displays using standard TCAS 1 symbols, identifying the location, severity of threat, distance, vertical separation and heading of any aircraft within the traffic system range. Pilots will have immediate situational awareness of traffic that they can easily track.

Click to expand...

I am not a Dynon user, but am curious how traffic alerts would show up on a synthetic vision display. More specifically, how is traffic that is BEHIND you shown on a display that is looking in front of you?

erich

KRviator said:

I'm probably asking a really dumb question here, but can you have a NavWorx ADS-B box and a Zaon XRX talking to the SkyView system at the same time to cover both radar and ADS-B traffic?

Click to expand...

I've looked at this. This is primarily a software issue rather than a hardware issue, I think.

Ideally, we would like the three sources of electronic traffic integrated: TIS-A from the transponder, TIS-B from a UAT (NavWorx ADS600-B) and virtual TIS-A from a Zaon or Monroy passive traffic monitor. This provides a graceful transition of traffic sources:

-The Zaon/Monroy will work with all transponders that are illuminated by radar today.
-The TIS-A will work in several metro areas that support it today until phased out by TIS-B
-The TIS-B will (eventually) replace TIS-A (future) and minimize the need for passive traffic.

Note: It will still be useful to have passive traffic monitors for trans-border operations. Canada has not announced any plans for a full ADS-B rollout.

It sure would be nice if NavWorx would incorporate passive (Mode A/C) monitoring in their device (suck in the capability of the Zaon/Monroy boxes).

Finally, it sure would be much nicer if Dynon built or licensed a UAT. Their Transponder is nice, but the Mode-S out/TIS-A in does not provide much of a benefit compared to a UAT, with the full implementatioin of ADS-B providing TIS-B out, TIS-B in and FIS-B (weather).

The above may be acronym soup to most: The short story is: keep your powder dry! Don't spend a lot of money investing in ADS-B technology until this is all sorted out. I expect some interesting announcements over the next year.

Vern

vlittle said:

Finally, it sure would be much nicer if Dynon built or licensed a UAT. Their Transponder is nice, but the Mode-S out/TIS-A in does not provide much of a benefit compared to a UAT, with the full implementatioin of ADS-B providing TIS-B out, TIS-B in and FIS-B (weather).

Click to expand...

Agreed. This is one thing that would really help out, both for those of us using Dynon, and for Dynon selling more units.

todehnal said:

This is all really nice, but there is still that big hole in the system that is very expensive to fill. The way I understand it, you are going to, eventually, need a TSO-C146a WAAS GPS. That's a panel mounted GPS, like a GNS 400. That's a $6K plus item! Why can't the the GPS that is built into the Skyview fill that ADS-B requirement, now that Dynon's mode S xponder is available?

Tom

Click to expand...

For the simple reason you already stated - the regs require the TSO'd GPS. That requires lots of expensive testing and that requires money and time. Personally I'm planning on Dynon screens with a 430W, and a UAT from SOMEBODY (hint hint Dynon...)

I'll see if I can answer some of these questions.

* The King KLX-135A probably is not compatible.

* If you are playing with your SkyView display on your bench, you will want to hook up the GPS receiver and ADAHRS to see anything meaningful. That is one reason we include a non-flying network cable with each display.

* The Dynon Transponder will not interface with the D10/D100/D180 Series. There is not much gain there, without having the rich graphical environment that the SKyView has. The equivalent Trig transponder with separate control head is a nice option.

* Not sure if a Zaon XRX can send traffic data to both a SkyView and a Garmin portable, because I'm not sure what data format the Garmin uses. If it uses the GTX 330 format, then it should be able to. Maybe someone knows what traffic data format is used by the Garmin portables, and can tell us?

* Eventually a TSO-C146c WAAS GPS is required to make our Mode-S transponders fully compliant. I hope there will be cheaper ones available in the next 10 years.

* To show traffic that is off the side of the SynVis screen, a marker appears on the edges of the screen.

* We think there will be many good ADS-B in data sources in the near future. People are saying it is better to wait... which is somewhat true. There is probably no reason to trade a working Mode C transponder for a Mode S. But if you are building a new plane, the Dynon Mode S are a safe bet, and priced right.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing

I'm looking into upgrading my panel and see several other manufacturers integrate with the NavWorx ADS600-B box. It provides both ADS-B In and Out. Through his testing with the box, he found the FAA has already turned on the feature that requires you transmit ADS-B Out before you will be able to receive any ADS-B targets IN. I noticed your new transponder only has ADS-B In. From what I understand, that will not work with the current ADS-B system. Are you planning on upgrading the transponder to have both in and out?

DFlyer said:

New SV-ARINC-429 Module: The SkyView SV-ARINC-429 Module delivers on the promise to make SkyView compatible with certified GPS receivers, integrating with radios such as the Garmin 430/530. This includes advanced features such as GPS steering, CDI auto-scaling and vertical guidance information from WAAS-enabled GPS receivers. This Module also enables the full suite of G430/530 VOR and localizer functionality. With the addition of this module, SkyView eliminates the need to install a conventional CDI/GS head for the Garmin 430/530.

Click to expand...

Dynon Support - with this box and a 430W - will we be able to make a coupled AP approach? I see the bit about providing GUIDANCE - but that's not the same as coupling it to the AP. What exactly is this going to offer us from the standpoint of using your autopilot to fly an ILS or GPS approach?

airguy said:

Dynon Support - with this box and a 430W - will we be able to make a coupled AP approach? I see the bit about providing GUIDANCE - but that's not the same as coupling it to the AP. What exactly is this going to offer us from the standpoint of using your autopilot to fly an ILS or GPS approach?

Click to expand...

i would like to know about this as well, i'll grab the popcorn and hope for the best

erich weaver said:

I am not a Dynon user, but am curious how traffic alerts would show up on a synthetic vision display. More specifically, how is traffic that is BEHIND you shown on a display that is looking in front of you?

erich

Click to expand...

Just a small correction to Robert's response above. Traffic that is out of view (in any direction) WILL show up on the map page on the edges of the display. But the synthetic vision view shows only the traffic that is within your synthetic vision view.

Never trust those marketing guys

Mike S
Dynon Product Manager*
*technically also a marketing guy

Broyce - So technically, the way ADS-B traffic works is that when an aircraft transmits his position and it's caught by the ADS-B system, the system returns with a broadcast of a "hockey puck" of the traffic that surrounds that aircraft (I think it's 15nm, but I forget). Any other aircraft that happen to catch that hockey puck can also plot the data - it's not encrypted. So what that means is that if you're in a high traffic area where there's a lot of ADS-B out equipped aircraft, you may indeed be able to put together a fairly complete picture just by gleaning the ADS-B's replies to other aircraft. But in order to receive a targeted traffic picture, you have to transmit. There are technical bandwidth reasons that they're doing this way in addition to creating the incentive to transmit and not just receive.

Airguy - Not yet, but we'll get there. Don't have a timeframe for you on that yet though, but it won't be in our next update (early next year), which will focus more on the map side of things. The autopilot features have not changed, essentially. We plan on adding what we call the "advanced autopilot features", including VNAV coupled approaches, and will have more to say about that soon.

Another (probably dumber than my last) question to the Dynon Guru's....

Since traffic arrives at the SkyView as a serial input, is it possible to have a NavWorx box and a ZaonXRX wired through a flip-flop switch to allow the SkyView to only "see" one TCAS device at a time, but have both capabilities in the aircraft?

I'm pretty convinced ADS-B is the way of the future, but GA uptake in Australia has been pretty slow, so I'd like to have the best of both worlds while I can.

ARINC-429 & Skyview 2.6

Robert
''I'll see if I can answer some of these questions.

* The King KLX-135A probably is not compatible.

* If you are playing with your SkyView display on your bench, you will want to hook up the GPS receiver and ADAHRS to see anything meaningful. That is one reason we include a non-flying network cable with each display. ''
---------------------------
Thanks a lot for the quick reply...It looks like I'm gonna be spending more money soon on another GPS..

Another quick question Robert if I may....

Can I install the updates when I am in the '' Play Mode '' way?? It will be nice to get all the latest info in ..?

Thanks

Bruno
[email protected]

dynonsupport said:

Airguy - Not yet, but we'll get there. Don't have a timeframe for you on that yet though, but it won't be in our next update (early next year), which will focus more on the map side of things. The autopilot features have not changed, essentially. We plan on adding what we call the "advanced autopilot features", including VNAV coupled approaches, and will have more to say about that soon.

Click to expand...

(sigh) I suppose I'll have to settle for that, for now. As long as you guys have a plan for it and you're gonna make it happen eventually.

Now get back to work and make it happen!! (insert cracking whip sounds here)

You can install a switch to flip-flop traffic sources, assuming they are both the same data type (which the Navworx and Zaon are).

The reason we don't RX from two traffic sources at the same time is that there is no way to de-conflict the two. The Zaon is really low resolution data, while the Navworx is dead on since it uses GPS data. So they will both tell you about the same plane, but they will have very different locations, and we'll give you twice the traffic reports you deserve.

Also, the number of people with both is likely very low, so anything we could do to read both and try and be intelligent about it is just low on the priority list.

dynonsupport said:

You can install a switch to flip-flop traffic sources, assuming they are both the same data type (which the Navworx and Zaon are).
<snip>
Also, the number of people with both is likely very low, so anything we could do to read both and try and be intelligent about it is just low on the priority list.

Click to expand...

Great news. I'm the one wanting to run both traffic systems so that'll be my solution. I certainly wouldn't ask your software gurus to work on a solution for that. The Vertical Power VP-X however..... ;-)

Answer to RV-4,

If you are "playing" with your SkyView display on your bench, powered up with your ADAHRS and GPS attached, it will act just like it would in the plane. So you can upload new firmware at any time. You can also go through the setup menus and input most of your aircraft settings.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing

Hi Robert
Well that is great news...so this way I'll be able to get it configure in time to use it in the airplane..

Cheers

Bruno ( AKA: RV-4 )

Dear Dynon,

I have thought long and hard about this, and I have decided- you need a black friday special. Please update this thread with your new pricing as a result of my incredibly business savvy thinking.

At Dynon, EVERY day is a major sale day.

-Robert
Dynon Marketing