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"Passenger Warning" placement

alcladrv

Well Known Member
I'm re-doing the panel in my -7A. Right now the "Passenger Warning" is front and center on the passenger side so they're always staring at it.

What are the rules for placement of that warning? Can a vinyl sticker with that wording be placed on the canopy rail so it's visible to those entering from the passenger side, thus removing it from the panel? I saw one stuck to the baggage bulkhead on an RV-7 so you can see it while standing beside the plane on the passenger side, but not while you're climbing up on the wing to board.

Thoughts? Regulations?

Thanks
 
The "passenger warning" placard should be placed where it is plainly visible to anyone entering the cockpit.
 
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In Canada, the wording of the regs is such that the warning must be visible to a passenger entering the aircraft. Many builders have put a sticker on the canopy rail, so it's hidden when the canopy is closed. The passenger can't miss it while getting in.

I believe the regs are the same in the US, as Mel says.
 
In Canada, the wording of the regs is such that the warning must be visible to a passenger entering the aircraft. Many builders have put a sticker on the canopy rail, so it's hidden when the canopy is closed. The passenger can't miss it while getting in.

I believe the regs are the same in the US, as Mel says.

The US requirements say visible to all occupants of the plane.

...must be displayed in the aircraft in full view of all occupants...

Does the pilot count as an occupant?

Is it displayed if it's covered by a closed canopy?

Page 22

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/8130.2F Ch 4.pdf
 
Passenger Warning size and font?

This one's probably for Mel:
Do the FARs specify the size and font for this? I can't find it. I'm printing my own, and I don't want to do anything weird, but what's the 'standard'?
Size?, font?, outline? black-on-white? shiny? matte? English? Multiple languages?(California only)
Also, stick-on, glued-on, or riveted with copper rivets (France)
Sorry....I couldn't help myself :D
 
passenger warning verbiage

Is there a strict passenger warning that is needed? Please I need DAR to answer this.

My Quick Panel says, "PASSENGER WARNING THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT."

Aircraft Spruce sells one that is slightly different, "PASSENGER WARNING THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REQUIREMENTS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT."

FAA circular from 2012 says, "PASSENGER WARNING THIS AIRCRAFT IS AN EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT AND DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT."

Which one is correct? Does it matter?

I'm getting prepared with DAR and I hate to have to redo the warning Dynon put on my quick panel.

thanks
 
This is the new wording according to the latest Order:

THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT

The pilot is not considered a passenger. He/she is the pilot and should know that the aircraft does not have a Standard Airworthiness certificate and should refer to the Operating Limitations.

As an example, technically the RV-8 does not need the passenger warning on the front panel. It needs it in view of the rear seat passenger.

Vic
 
From 8130.2j: ?PASSENGER WARNING?THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT?
 
I had Stein laser engrave my panel and it states:

PASSENGER WARNING
THIS AIRCRAFT IS AMATEUR-BUILT AND DOES NOT COMPLY
WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT

There is the additional words of "IS AMATEUR-BUILT" added to the FAR regs. Hope my DAR does not get this picky.
 
EAA

If you go to the EAA store or just call them they have all the stickers on a sheet that you can buy from them for a few ducks. If I remember there are two of these on the one sheet so you ca stick them anywhere you wish.
Just an easy way to get it done. Yours, R.E.A. III # 80888
 
Re-opening a kind of old thread on the passenger warning. I am a little confused about the required text on the "passenger warning" placard.

The latest AC 20-27G, Certification and Operation of Amateur-Built Aircraft, notes:

c. Passenger Warning. You must display the following placard in a readily visible location in the cabin or cockpit, unless your aircraft has only one seat:
“Passenger Warning: This aircraft is amateur-built and does not comply with Federal safety regulations for standard aircraft.”​

However, FAA order 8130.2J, rules for airworthiness certification, which has been mentioned a few times here on VAF, reads:

(7) Verify the following placard is displayed in the aircraft in full view of all occupants: “PASSENGER WARNING—THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT.”​

Note, the lack of "is amateur-built and". So which one is required? My panel is already done and contains (semi-permanently) the second wording, which Mel and Vic seem to agree is the correct text. Could a DAR reasonably object to the missing "amateur-built" wording?
 
Could a DAR reasonably object to the missing "amateur-built" wording?

No, because Order 8130.2J contains the current requirements that must be met for certification. (in simple terms... the checklist that a DAR is using when inspecting to determine eligibility for a certificate.)

AC20-27G is an Advisory Circular which apparently hasn't been kept up to date to match the current order.
 
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Mine

This my passenger warning. I think it meets the spirit of the rules.
 

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Is there a strict passenger warning that is needed? Please I need DAR to answer this.

My Quick Panel says, "PASSENGER WARNING THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT."

Aircraft Spruce sells one that is slightly different, "PASSENGER WARNING THIS AIRCRAFT DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REQUIREMENTS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT."

FAA circular from 2012 says, "PASSENGER WARNING THIS AIRCRAFT IS AN EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT AND DOES NOT COMPLY WITH FEDERAL SAFETY REGULATIONS FOR STANDARD AIRCRAFT."

Which one is correct? Does it matter?

I'm getting prepared with DAR and I hate to have to redo the warning Dynon put on my quick panel.

thanks

Good morning Steve! Refer to the order 8130.2j for the "final word". "This aircraft does not comply with Federal safety regulations for standard aircraft". The font is not specified. I have the warning engraved on a small plastic tag on my glove box door. FAA inspected my aircraft, had no issue.
The reason it has to be viewable to all occupants is suppose you loan the aircraft to cousin Fred who thinks it is a factory aircraft?????
Let me know if you need any help with the "7-A" project.
Regards,

Gary Brown - DAR
 
I was a little concerned when I had my inspection done early this year because the wording I silkscreened on the panel years ago differed from the current requirement. The FAA inspector either didn't notice or didn't care as nothing was said. I doubt it would be a show stopper as long as you can point to some official source for your wording.
 
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