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Added up the Receipts Today

Dbro172

Dbro172

Well Known Member
Don't ever do that. :eek:

As they say, finish as much as possible before first flight because after that all you want to do is fly. So as I built I stuffed every receipt in a three ring binder and have never taken the time to ever go back and add them up until now. The binder even included receipts for things such as tools, replacement parts for various do-overs and lumber to construct wing racks. There must have been about 25 different vendors overall. Now I have a spreadsheet with all the totals.

I always kept a tally in my head (so I thought) and when people would ask, sometimes I would share that figure, depending on who/why they were asking. Of course people always had their own guesses too. I always got a kick out of the guy who says "so that must have been what, about $30-35k?" And you just have to smirk to that. :rolleyes:

I can say this though; to my surprise, the final total was about $20k more than that tally I kept in my head! Heck, there must be 3-5 grand just in shipping costs.

Anyway, it was kind of a fun excercise, at least Now I know.
 
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Now for a fun little exercise, pretend your shipping to another country outside the USA.

Then you can get really really scared with how much a do over costs.

Sometimes shipping is 4-5 times to cost of the replacement part

Cheers
 
Why not? I kept tracking every buck since day one. Like Chad Jensen was counting rivets. At the time of first flight she took $x3,280 out of my pocket. Every single sheet of sandpaper, every part with shipping cost, sales tax and DAR fee. All happily spent. If you want to count, count! It is fun! :)
 
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Dbro172 said:
Don't ever do that. :eek:

<snip> Heck, there must be 3-5 grand just in shipping costs.

Anyway, it was kind of a fun excercise, at least Now I know.
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Really LOL !! I have been following my shipping and try to keep it down to 20% of the parts cost. You will be lucky if it is only 3-5 grand!!

I have read - save all your receipts in a big bag - fly to Phase II, if you are happy burn the bag. There may be wisdom to that . . .

I have an account with UPS for shipping out, it saves a lot over the "stores" . Maybe we RVer's should get a "corporate account" for shipping. 10,000 builders times $5,000 each - that is $50Mil.
 
Dbro172 said:
Don't ever do that
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Rule#2!!!

Rule #1: Don't ever try to cost-justify owning and flying small aircraft... it's not possible.

Rule #2: Never add up how much it costs to own and fly a small aircraft... you don't want to know.
:D :D :eek:
 
I think eventually most all of us count up the receipts....even if it's for insurance purposes. Don't beat yourself up when the total comes up way higher than expected. The Vans estimator is a little bit of a dream lowball price (joke)....oh you want tires with that also....cha Ching. For us first timers we have to build the stands, workbenches, buy tools, replacement parts due to screw ups, I mean learning curve...on and on. I don't even think the cost of Proseal is even in the estimator.

And did we mention that those dual Garmin screens with the EIS, and the AP cost way more than a few steam gauges in the estimator.....but it will do way more.

My .02 worth
 
I quit counting at 80k. Its all the little things that add up. I still cant go to walmart without thinking if I need more sandpaper!
 
I quit counting when I ordered the wing kit - my logic was that I was going to see the projection to completion regardless, so why track it? It's not like I was going to hit a certain number at some point and say "Whoa, that's way too much money..." and quit building it.

I've tracked every hour that I've spent building it though, and I really can't tell you why.
 
I never added my receipts. This way when my wife asks what it cost I can honestly say I don't really know.
 
I agree with Neil and Mark: Don't do it! You can never justify the cost on a working man's salary.... But so what - who can really justify the marriage penalty, but I couldn't be happier married to my lovely wife of many, many years. If I even had to choose, I'd give up the plane in a nano-second. Lucky I don't have the choose.

Robert
RV7
 
I have all my receipts as well, for some reason could not ever get around to adding them all up. Like someone said, keep all them together, then when the plane is done burn them all! I am guessing that somehow secretly I don't WANT to know the total.
 
There is a very easy set of rules to follow when building these things in order to keep yourself sane!

1) When you first start with the tail and such, you can keep track of every little receipt for things like sealant, screws, rivets, etc.. Basically anything over $50 you keep track of, and anything under you just don't worry about.

2) When you get to the wings, do the same as above, but move the $$ target up to about $500 (therefore not worrying about "little" things under 5 bills).

3) When you get to the fuselage you move the aforementioned target to $1K so as not to pay attention to pesky things like antennas, cables, ELT's, lights, etc..

4) When you get to the finish kit you now move the "ignore" level up to $5K and only keep track of things over that. This allows you some freedom with various engine accessories, heated pitot tubes, smoke systems, fancy interiors, fancy seatbelts, vents,. a few whizbang avionics goodies, etc..

Lastly, at this (finishing) point you also totally ignore shipping costs, because you likely will end up ordering things from the same place (us, Vans, ACS, etc..) up to 7 times per week, and often 2-3 times in the same day! Also be prepared to have a small pile of things you ordered twice because you forgot you ordered it last week and then go buy a new one this week before last week's order arrives. By this stage of the build you'll know your UPS guy personally and intimately!

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
But you forgot instructions on how to account for the items you lost, reordered, then a few days after you receive the new one, you find the old one. Now you have one (or more) items for which you have a receipt, but only one went on the plane.
 
Damnable shipping costs!!!

Shipping cost? I agree it sure is annoying. Every time I have to make that 22 mile round trip to Van's it costs me almost exactly 1 gal of $3.05/gal fuel in my old CRV . If I have to use my 1994 F-150 it's double that. And God knows I tend to make lots of trips like for a few nutplates. You guys have a real advantage there cuz you can save cost by waiting till you can make a larger order...

As for the other costs, hope everyone counts the "opportunity costs" as my broker explained it. For instance If we all had our $100k invested in Treasury bonds that would save at least $2500 per year if we weren't RV people

Or God help ya if you missed the latest stock boom, that would cause one to weep missing out on vast profits...

I explained this to my dear wife Susan of 37 yrs and she said "Whattaya gonna do, take it with ya?" That's one reason why I love her so much. So guess I'll head over to the hangar and see what I need from Van's...

My advice to simplify life for those who wish to beancount.. Just start with $100k in your visa account pay for everything with it and every 6 month
check the balance. Throw the receipts out as needed. You will then know the exact amount with almost no effort. :rolleyes:

Hope this helps!!!

:D

Jerry
 
SteinAir said:
There is a very easy set of rules to follow when building these things in order to keep yourself sane!

1) When you first start with the tail and such, you can keep track of every little receipt for things like sealant, screws, rivets, etc.. Basically anything over $50 you keep track of, and anything under you just don't worry about.

2) When you get to the wings, do the same as above, but move the $$ target up to about $500 (therefore not worrying about "little" things under 5 bills).

3) When you get to the fuselage you move the aforementioned target to $1K so as not to pay attention to pesky things like antennas, cables, ELT's, lights, etc..

4) When you get to the finish kit you now move the "ignore" level up to $5K and only keep track of things over that. This allows you some freedom with various engine accessories, heated pitot tubes, smoke systems, fancy interiors, fancy seatbelts, vents,. a few whizbang avionics goodies, etc..

Lastly, at this (finishing) point you also totally ignore shipping costs, because you likely will end up ordering things from the same place (us, Vans, ACS, etc..) up to 7 times per week, and often 2-3 times in the same day! Also be prepared to have a small pile of things you ordered twice because you forgot you ordered it last week and then go buy a new one this week before last week's order arrives. By this stage of the build you'll know your UPS guy personally and intimately!

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
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5) When you get to avionics, just send a blank check to Stein and "ignore" the whole thing when all that cool glass, that you've been dreaming about since before step 1, arrives on your doorstep. :D
 
the good news

excluding tire and oil costs: condition inspection maintenance costs; first year = $5, second year = $4.
 
As a hopeful feature builder, I will present one argument for tallying up and knowing:

Presenting OTHERS with some accurate data points on build costs. As was alluded to, the Van'S Cost Estimator is completely out to lunch.

I've done my own estimates, which I like to think are much more realistic ...

But still if there was a data sets of true build costs out there, I'm sure it would prove educational and informational for future builders and possibly the industry itself ...
 
Keeping Track

Good advice on keeping, burning, etc. receipts. The shock value apparently is not enough to stop repeat offenders.

I tally the receipts to slow the thought process of doing another one. Does the cost outweigh the enjoyment / bragging / pride? Tangible vs intangible. Usually the intangible wins as is attested by the number of us that go beyond ONE!

The hourly operating cost can be as startling as the build cost. Op costs are not so easy to dismiss. Using a 100 hour flying year - Fixed: insurance, tiedown/hangar/condition inspection (sometimes not so fixed) and Operation can be easily calculated, so the "I don't know" comment becomes awkward!

And, if you're not flying at least 100 hours per year, the hourly costs skyrocket because of the fixed cost.

The moral of the story: If it's flying, fly it long! If it's not, pick up the pace!:D
 
kamikaze said:
As a hopeful feature builder, I will present one argument for tallying up and knowing:

Presenting OTHERS with some accurate data points on build costs. As was alluded to, the Van'S Cost Estimator is completely out to lunch.

I've done my own estimates, which I like to think are much more realistic ...

But still if there was a data sets of true build costs out there, I'm sure it would prove educational and informational for future builders and possibly the industry itself ...
Click to expand...

When I was in your shoes I was looking for the same information to help me make a decision. What I found was that build costs vary greatly. Some guys spare no expense, buy everything new and can spend upwards of $100K on a 2-seat RV. Others swear they got it done for half that, more in line with Van's estimator.

A lot depends on decisions you make along the way. You can see the cost of the kits on the Vans web site, so there's your starting point - unless you pick up a partially complete project and save some money. The variance on what you can spend on tools, engine, prop, avionics, finishing and interior can boggle the mind. There's easily a $40K or more delta between doing it on the cheap and taking the "spare no expense" approach. Take a look at what a drop-in complete panel will cost you, versus what you can do it for by yourself. It goes on and on.

Building a plane is like having kids. How much money does it cost? As much as you can spend.
 
My first wife and I went to North Plains before the factory moved and got "the tour".
"How much does one of these kits cost?" She asked of Ken Scott.
$12,000."
"Oh, that's not so bad"......

Ken and I did not elaborate. That is what the kit cost at the time for a SB RV6.

I added up most of my receipts and stopped when it went north of $80k.

I am on my second wife........
 
SteinAir said:
Lastly, at this (finishing) point you also totally ignore shipping costs, because you likely will end up ordering things from the same place (us, Vans, ACS, etc..) up to 7 times per week, and often 2-3 times in the same day! Also be prepared to have a small pile of things you ordered twice because you forgot you ordered it last week and then go buy a new one this week before last week's order arrives. By this stage of the build you'll know your UPS guy personally and intimately!

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
Click to expand...

Whoa, now there's some deja vu. And by the way now I know what that Stein column adds up to! Best money I ever spent though:D
 
Yea. I do this addition annually to pay my use taxes of the great state of California. I'll need to pay the piper sometime, and I'd rather do it as I go rather than on registration day. Maybe some of our Red State friends have better deals?

I keep track of all my expenses in Quicken, so it's easy to add up what the baby's costing. Still, quite a bit cheaper than sending kid to college.

..Though, I don't ever try to remember the actual number. Vx and Vy; now, that I remember!
 
In 1999 it cost lee ray $75,000 to build my plane. Three and a half years 9 hours a day. Everything new. He did keep track of everything. He said no negotiations. That's the price. I payed it and figure it owes me nothing after 16 years and 4,600 hours later. Never let me down. Always got me home. ;)
 
Cost... any hobby is expensive... if you do it like a pro.

Flying the RV is cheaper than fishing a tournament trail...

Nothing even compares...

I fished Guy&Gals, and the Country Boy tournament during the 80's

so just two tournaments and 2 days practice days.

New line on 12 poles.
New fishing lures every other weekend.
Gas for the tow rig... suburban,
Gas for the Mercury motor... every day 40 gallons X 4 days
Tournament entry fees no less than 125.00 for each person fishing.
Hotel cost for 2 days.

You could blow through 700-800 a month with no problem...
And then hit a log in the water.....1500 for a lower unit. a couple times a year or a new prop. but insurance does help... the first time...

After you run around the same lake fishing then take the kids waterskiing
Your burned up by the sun... when the Kids become teenagers they don't want you in the boat... and you have seen the same lake 100 times that year.
Pay 45k for a boat.... 10 years later it is worth 15K Not much return on your investment.
Don't get me wrong I still love to go fishing, Scuba Diving and riding my Motorcycle. But

Flying... Oh yea.... new adventure... never the same sky... never the same sunset... and the destinations are endless... Hundreds of more friends
I guess you've figured out I love it.... for 47 years..... Yes...

Jack
 
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Funny Stuff

One of the pilots I work with is a young guy with a passion for competition cycling. (Pedal type). He has a funny line.

"My biggest fear in death is that my wife will sell all my stuff for exactly what I told her I paid for it." :eek::eek::eek:

No, I didn't add anything up for either plane I built.
 
should be step 6

krw5927 said:
5) When you get to avionics, just send a blank check to Stein and "ignore" the whole thing when all that cool glass, that you've been dreaming about since before step 1, arrives on your doorstep. :D
Click to expand...

I think this is step 6. Step 5 should be... sell as many of your children as required to purchase your engine and propeller. You may not end up needing that 4 seater afterall :)
 
fuzzy logic at work here....

Paul Tuttle said:
A fellow on our field added things up (not an RV) and told his wife. :eek: Plane's now for sale...
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....thus GUARANTEEING that it will be sold a a big loss, rather than actually recovering some of that cost in fun, freedom, and frivolity (?)

would you buy a new car, drive around the block, then sell it?

.....don't make sense. But I'm also married, so one gets used to that...(even if you have one of the 'good' ones that supports your flying habit.)
 
Cost

I keep a spreadsheet. Every item related to the plane in any way gets entered. Even paper towels. All the cost tabs total back to a main tab. I try not to look at it. It is what it is. When I'm done, I have a brand new airplane.
 
I've lost count how many people have said, "you've got an airplane? That's an expensive hobby!" Some of these same people have $250K wrapped up in a boat.

I've always answered the comment with the same answer ...

"It's not a hobby. It's therapy."

At currents rates of $150 for a 30 - 45 minute session, my plane is a bargain.
 
Cost is relative. My RV-9A cost about half the amount I spent to put just one of my three kids through college. Thankfully, the other two will be graduating this Fall. My wife has plans for this windfall surplus with some overdue remodelling on the house. It might be another year before the airplane gets painted. :D
 
Out the door with 1986-89 dollars , $23500 and still flying very nicely today. Purchased 0-320 overhauled and stored for 10 years, $4000. Professional paint job $1800 in 1989 and still looks fresh. Minimum of gauges and doodads for a very economical and efficient magic carpet. Have saved the equivalent of the total cost of my investment by self insuring and carrying only liability. Man, this is less expensive than my 1997 Harley, something I won't purchase again in my lifetime.

Cheers, Hans
 
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