Decisions, decisions, decisions

Probably way too much info but may provide context around my questions. My wife and I have been working on defining our mission for some time now as it relates to flying; Weekend Cross Country Jaunts ( ~< 400 nm), Local breakfast runs and solo around the patch.

Have three options...

1. Continue to rent ~ $ but tied to the rental schedule / availability
2. Buy completed plane ~ $$$ No schedule to hold us back. top contenders RV-12 S-LSA or C172 (familiarity, I have most hours here.)
3. Build plane ~ $$ but takes time and space (RV-9A seems like it will fit the bill)

Why the RV-12 vs RV9A. RV-12 can be delivered as S-LSA. Right or wrong, I am shying away from a used Experimental due to the unknown around the quality of the builder. If I am going to make the leap to build, The RV-9A seems to be a better fit due to the useful load and cruising speed.

Now to the questions at hand.

How is the cabin air flow / temps in the RV's once aloft? My baseline is a 172 venting that summer Florida air. At least the high wing provides some shade relief.

Both the 9A and the 12 are lighter (gross) than the C-172. How do they handle the typical summer thermals we have in FL?

Lastly, is there an EAA chapter or other RV groups around Orlando that would be great to reach out to?

Unfortunately Vans will not have 9 or 12 demos at SNF, but they are going to help make some connections this week to see if I can get a ride in to help with the decision.

Thanks in advance.

CT

welcome!

Hi CT - just to address one question - there are some really beautiful RVs on the market, and I recommend you spend some time looking at them, and getting a trusted person to do a pre-buy to avoid any issues. I also suggest looking at the 6 and 7 in addition to the 12 and 9. They are excellent aircraft as you can see by the 1000s flying, and will fit your mission nicely. Good luck!

CT.....the 9A climb rate is 2-3 times what a 172 is. The 9 will be much more pitch sensitive but easier to land in cross wind (my opinion). The 9 will bounce you around more than a 172 in turbulence but would you rather have a sports plane or a truck plane?

I would agree with previous post that there are a lot of nice quality builds out there. Even tho I built my plane I don't think I saved any $ by bldg myself over buying a completed plane. Do you have the time, energy, space, and temperament to build? If you want to cut build time, consider either a quick build kit or an abandoned project (inspected of course).

My 0.02 worth

Jim
RV9 A flying

The 12 is not a speed demon, but will walk on past a 172 while burning quite a bit less gas. Neither the 9 or the 12 one has the baggage space of a 4-seater. Either will be a lot cheaper to operate, especially the RV-12. Don't rule out E-LSA or a used Experimental -- there are plenty of people who can do a good pre-purchase inspection so you know what you're getting.

Another option for you: Find 1 to 3 guys like yourself and co-own one.

Thanks Mickey and Jim.

I am not opposed to a 6 or 7. Just based on what I have read on the forum and googling it sounds like the 9 is better suited to me. With that said it is all academic at this point. I have seen a few from afar but never sat in any of them yet. Clearly I still have a ton of work to do here.

The idea of buying a completed plane is a bit scary to me. May be because of my lack of understanding here. I know alot of pilots; some I would trust my family to fly with and some I would not. That is probably skewing my logic. I also have a minor in aeronautical engineering; a little knowledge can be dangerous.

The desire to build is there. While not at the same level I ride road bikes. I build them from parts to my spec as opposed to buying off the rack. I have experience building hot rods with my father-in-law as well as. Clearly a bunch to learn in the aircraft space, but excited about that.

Space is my largest concern. 3 car garage but... two cars that need to park in the garage and three cars that are in the driveway when the college kids are home for the summer. 2/3 of year not going to be an issue. I live in land of HOAs so no cars in the street and no planes in the driveway. Not a show stopper but a consideration.

Buy or build

By a low priced <$30k Cherokee and keep flying.

AND buy the kit you decide best fits your mission and start building it.

Do both of these. Owning is better than renting, but don't ask for a cost/benefit statement. Then since you own and fly regularly you don't have to be in a hurry to build plane of choice. Building is a great learning experience.

Build only because you enjoy that kind of working with your hands and tools. If you don't like building it will become painful. Buy the tail kit and find out. (If you hate it, you can sell the kit and tools and get some of the money back. Consider it well worth what you learned.) For the record, I built my -10 and found the experience great, I'm glad I did it. But not everyone feels that way.

I'm both Bob on this one. If you want to build, build. If you want to fly, buy. I wouldn't be so quick to shy away from purchasing a completed RV. Just find someone who is experienced at completing pre buy inspections. There are plenty of RV's out there built by OCD types that will be better than any factory plane you can buy. You may have to sleigh a few dragons, but you will get to the princess eventually. If you go down the build path, don't underestimate the time and dedication it will take, or the cost. Unless you are the master Scrooge, it will cost you a lot in tools and parts to build something you are proud of, on top of the kit price. Also, as an aero engineer, it can mean that it will take you longer, as you will always be over analyzing things and trying to do things "better". I am speaking from first hand experience, as this approach has completely blown out my build time estimates by a factor of two, but for me this part of this build is more important than just getting it done. Finally, don't underestimate the time saving of the quick build path. I have a slow build and honestly think the QB kits are amazing value. Go find some builders in your area and spent some time with them seeing what it takes first hand. You may find that the build process is exactly what you think you need.
Good luck.
Tom.

Fly and build

sglynn said:

By a low priced <$30k Cherokee and keep flying.

AND buy the kit you decide best fits your mission and start building it.

Do both of these. Owning is better than renting, but don't ask for a cost/benefit statement. Then since you own and fly regularly you don't have to be in a hurry to build plane of choice. Building is a great learning experience.

Click to expand...

+1 And..

Building is great but local support is essential. Get to know local builders before you start.

Do both!

CT,

I bought a RV7A from the builder but didn't get a very good pre-buy. There were a number of build issues that I had to address (some immediately) and it's taken me almost two years to address all the squawk. Horror story right? Wrong!

Working through all the "quality build issues" taught me a lot about the plane. I now believe this airplane is exactly where I want it to be - safe!

My sincere advice is find an airplane (RV) you like and negotiate a competitive price, subject to a thorough prebuy inspection, and don't let a few none safety of flight squawks deter you. Target your search to "Quick Build kit" planes because they're less likely to have significant build quality issues.

All RV's are great performers. They will climb higher, faster and are much more likely to have modern avionics and newer engines. Yes, the RVs are lighter than a C172 but they will get you up into cooler, calmer air quicker and better than any C172, Cherokee or Bonanza. And don't think because RVs are "amateur built" they are any less safe than an older certified aircraft where it's likely maintenance has been deferred or poorly accomplished. The expense of bringing a certified a/c up to speed and meeting FAA 2020 ads-b requirements will be significant.

If you truly want to buy a used certified airplane go the C172 or Piper Arrow route and then start building your own RV. If you decide to build I strongly encourage you to consider the new RV14A. It's the newest kit with more of the tricky build items predone by the factory. Again, I recommend a quick build kit to reduce builder errors. The RV 14A is like an RV7A but on steroids - it's bigger in all the right places making it a much more comfortable plane to fly.

I see you live in Central Florida. There are so many RVs in the area you just need to state your exact location & I'm sure plenty of VAFers will offer you a ride.
We have 5 RVs in our 10 hangar row.

Once you take the controls of an RV, you will no longer be looking for a 172.

Don't be shy about buying a flying RV. Get a good pre-buy from a repeat builder. There are so many quality built RVs out there, I'm sure you can find one.

Have you ever brought something undersize and a couple of months later wished you had brought what you really wanted???
You are probably working up to one of these moments.... Get yourself a -14 straight up.

Thank you all for the quick replies. This site has massively impressed me as a lurker and now a registered user. Clearly there is a solid case for looking at a flying RV; assuming a solid pre-buy is in done. Heading out to SNF today to meet with the factory guys and roam around the campground.

I am just north of Walt Disney World and routinely fly out of FA83 (Orlando North), X04 (Apopka) and ORL (Orlando Executive).

RV9A

I have a 9A based at X04 in Apopka if you would like to visit it.

Fly in them

The best way to compare is to fly in both. The lower cost of the -12 is hard to beat but the speed of the -9 as compared to the -12 is noteworthy. Both will be hot with the tip-up. My -6 was an oven with the tip-up and if there was any wind getting in or out, I always had a hand on the canopy to prevent it from being carried away. I would think a tip-up would be better suited for Oregon or maybe Canada. I am happy with the slider as it seems to be a bit more bearable in the south. My spouse complains about the wind messing up her hair when we taxi but she does that in the convertible too so its a no-win situation.

Either way, your going to love Van's designs. Good luck on your search!

Another option

I might add another option--having an RV-12 built for you by a high school. Like any other option, there are pluses and minuses. Pluses: much less expensive, can be done to your specifications (within the guidelines of E-LSA,) much less money, and you would be helping a bunch of students learn aviation! Minuses: It can't happen overnight. Actually that is about it. We have one flying and the owner reported yesterday he has 580 hours on it, with no builder-induced problems. Actually the kids do a better job than some adults (maybe most adults) because they don't know what is "just acceptable" and strive to make it perfect. There is one up for auction right now here on VAF. Getting in on the ground floor would allow you to spec it to your desires. We are building one right now with dual Skyviews for a fellow in Alabama. You might contact one of the groups doing this.
As to helping kids, over 25% go on to aviation careers. That is a Big Deal these days. Send me a PM if interested in this option.
Bob

jladd said:

I have a 9A based at X04 in Apopka if you would like to visit it.

Click to expand...

Sent you a PM with contact details. Thanks!

I really enjoyed the build of my -9A, and it is perfect for my mission. I don't want to talk you out of building or buying a -9, but if I was building today, the RV-14 would get some serious consideration. Yes, it is more expensive (but probably not by much compared to the amount of $$$ I have in the RV-9A), but it is much easier/quicker to build, faster, and has more room. It will cost more to operate, though.