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Student Aircraft Builders at the University of Illinois

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David_West-SAB

I'm New Here
This seemed the most applicable forum for this, but please feel free to move it to a more appropriate one.

Hello everyone,
My name is David West, and I and co-founded a group on my campus (The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign) that will build experimental general-aviation aircraft. I've been going to Airventure for over a decade, and I finally decided - "What the heck, it's time to actually do that!"

We're called the "Student Aircraft Builders." After meeting with EAA Chapter 29, we chose an RV-7a as our first project. We have the tail kit, are in the process of purchasing tools, and plan to start construction in late September.

We are currently creating a website that will be located at www.ae.uiuc.edu/sab within a couple of weeks.

As my first official question on this forum: What books/resources do you recommend? What do you have sitting on your shelf in your hanger/garage/basement? None of us have any prior building experience, or even riveting experience. About half have done the quick rivet-workshop at Sun 'n Fun or Airventure. I would like to acquire some nice textbook-like materials on aircraft building, RV construction, or anything else that you can recommend. Our school will help pay for 75% of such materials, so please make all the recommendations that you can. (And no, unfortunately, they are not helping to purchase anything that actually goes on the aircraft.)

Thank you all in advance,

David West
President, Co-Founder - Student Aircraft Builders
 
Jeppesen

Start with Aircraft Sheet Metal by Nick Bonacci published by Jeppesen. Also get a copy of AC43.13B. Good luck!
 
Neat idea. I agree on the AC43 standards book (not a text, but a reference). For conceptual type books, the EAA has some, and this excellent Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com/ ). I recommend 27 Years of Aviator, Aeroelectric Connection also. For actual building, nothing beats this forum and many of the builder's websites. Dan Checkoway's is probably the most detailed and famous ( http://www.rvproject.com/ ), which you can get on disc, too. I really don't have much of a collection - this forum and builders' sites has been the most helpful. Might also want to search the archives under "books" or "references".
Hope this helps.
PS - live nearby in Bloomington/Normal. We have several -7 builders, and Terry Ruprecht is in Mahomet right near you building a -9A like mine. Feel free to contact any of us. It is nice to make a site visit too - we have had folks visit from out of town and take them to a couple of our homes - can see my plane midway thru the fuselage, Chad Jensen's at the engine hang point, or Rob Johnson's just at first flight. It would great for orientation, tips, etc for newbies/students. Let us know if interested.
 
I have the Standard Aircraft Handbook - it came with my tool kit from Avery. I found it to be interesting enough to read it all the way through before I started building and still useful as a reference now that I'm building.

Also, the first few chapters of the build manual from Vans is pretty informative and relevant to the specific tools, fasteners and procedures that you'll use during the build. I'd suggest everyone working on the project order a copy of the preview plans, they are probably less expensive than most textbooks these days.
 
Welcome!!!

David, welcome to VAF:D

Getting hooked up with this site will pay you big dividends, as well as EAA.

Smart moves.

I would suggest that you get some local RV builders as mentors. I am pretty sure that there are some in your area.

Take a look here for cities close to you------scroll down to USA, Illinois. No listing for Urbana though. But then, this is not a complete list---only those who have submitted info to it.

Good luck.
 
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Look up Dr. Mike Selig in the university phone directory and give him a call. He is a great person genuinely interested in experimental aviation of any form. When I was playing around with the KR-2 guys we worked with him and one of his graduate students on the design of a new laminar flow airfoil for the KR-2. We had a blast on our project and wish you the same fun and satisfaction on your project as we had on ours.

http://www.krnet.org/as504x/
 
Thank you all for the suggestions, and keep 'em coming! Any help or advice is extremely appreciated.

Mr. Peters, I would be very interested in bringing a group out to the Bloomington area during a weekend in September. If you would care to further discuss it, please contact me at [email protected].

Further, anyone on these forums is welcome to use my above email address. Otherwise, I will be checking this posting about once every day or two for the next couple of weeks. Any and all tips are welcome, not just book recommendations.

Thanks all,
David West
 
I was contacted by

http://www.beringer.fr/

and asked to discuss the aircraft with them, since they might supply us with wheels and brakes.

Are these compatible? (or could they be made compatibly easily?) They look pretty beefy, perhaps to much for the RV's I've seen.

Thanks,
David

also, our website is now up (although its functionality is still very limited)

www.ae.uiuc.edu/sab

In a week or so, the forum, media gallery, builder's log, etc. should be functioning.
 
David

I have a flying RV6 and you can even fly in to take a look as well. My airport ID is 33IL east of Clinton off of Rt54. I also swear by the Tony Bingelis books. They have a ton of useful info on building that is very easy to understand. You can get them at the EAA webstore. http://shop.eaa.org/html/04_books_bingelis.html?cart_id= I also have these books and you can preview them beforeyou buy, but I think they are worth every penny.
 
N375JS,
I'd love to see it sometime, perhaps in November. Alternatively, if some Thursday you're out flying and stop by Williard at around 5:00, I've got a class out there. Thanks for the link as well.

David
 
Carl,

Feel free to give me, Jack, Chad, Larry, and Terry a shout when you are trying to coordinate this visit. Between all of us, we should have a good mix of stages to show this group.

Thanks!

Rob
 
Hi David,
As Carl and Rob said, I'm in Mahomet and have a 9A taking shape in my garage. You guys are welcome to come out for a look-see anytime. I also work on campus ...you can find my office phone and e-mail in the faculty-staff directory. As you can tell from the other responses, EAA Chap 129 at BMI (where Carl, Rob, Chad, and I hang out) has more than half-dozen RV's either in the air or in some stage of build.

Terry
 
Awesome!

Hey everyone,

Hopefully we get a chance to take up some of these offers! Next weekend?

As a side note, I was reading in one of the van's manuals and it said something about the bonds between the adhesive and the vinyl coming our tail section become stronger as time goes on....would it be a good idea to remove this vinyl or leave it and just use the smoothed down soldering iron later to get it off?

Thanks,

Jeremy
Senior - Aero
UIUC
SAB - EC rep.
 
Hi Jeremy --

Everyone seems to do this a bit differently. When I was building my -7, I used the soldering iron to remove the blue plastic adjacent to the rivet lines, and then pulled the rest of the stuff prior to final assembly. This method, although taking a bit of time to do, probably does prevent some excessive scratches in the aluminum. It was also nice that the remaining plastic served as a mask for the primer I shot (that's a whole different can of worms).

However, unless you are planning on polishing your plane, it is probably overkill. My plane still got scratches in it, but thankfully, I am not polishing for final finish. Otherwise, I would have some work to get

Regardless, I don't think you want to keep it on for an extended period of time (as in years). Several members have reported that corrosion can occur underneath the film.

Rob
 
Updates:

Some of our members met with a representative from Lockheed-Martin today, which has agreed to give us $1500 for this semester. Nice people.
We also talked with Boeing on Monday, and are meeting Northrop Grumman tomorrow. Many smaller aircraft companies are donating their products to us. Do any of you have specific suggestions for companies for us to contact?

Also, to those generous people that have offered to let us see your projects: That sounds great! We're thinking the first weekend of October. Does that work for you all?

Our website now has a good deal more info on it, but we still don't have the news, builders log, forum, or media sections operational. We hope to have those finished next week. (www.ae.uiuc.edu/sab) Question: For the FAA, what does the "builder's log" actually need? In fact, what are all the documentation requirements for the FAA? I'd like to know ahead of time, so we document all the necessary steps from the beginning.

Thanks,
David
 
David_West-SAB said:
What books/resources do you recommend? What do you have sitting on your shelf in your hanger/garage/basement? None of us have any prior building experience, or even riveting experience.
Click to expand...

I would definitely recommend article series released in Kitplanes magazine and written by Dan Checkoway. It quickly covers many things that are very useful and likely to answer the most questions you have about metal building and riveting for a start. It also gives some tips about the tools. http://www.kitplanesbooks.com/products/av713/

Another resource... this website. Someone will always know the answer whatever you ask -- although as discussed in another thread you should be able to filter the answers and final word always comes from Van's. And most questions are already answered so use search to find things you look for!

Good luck for your project!
 
For the vinyl, there have been reports of corrosion developing underneath, but I think it is rare. The biggest issue is the film becomes a bit harder to remove over time, but I've removed 1-2 year old vinyl without difficulty. One trick is to use a heat gun or hair dryer as you remove old vinyl - the heat helps debond it.
I did the soldering iron thing (use a well sanded tip so as to not score the very thin pure aluminum surface of the Alclad) to remove the vinyl for the rivet lines, but gave up by the time of the fuselage. Really doesn't matter if you are going to paint the plane - the whole thing will be scuffed/sanded anyway.
For a visit, Rob, Chad, and I are available most weekends - just contact us via PM, or me at say(dot)ahh1(at)verizon(dot)net. I believe Dave West was setting something up.

Jeremy_Alonso_SAB said:
Hey everyone,

Hopefully we get a chance to take up some of these offers! Next weekend?

As a side note, I was reading in one of the van's manuals and it said something about the bonds between the adhesive and the vinyl coming our tail section become stronger as time goes on....would it be a good idea to remove this vinyl or leave it and just use the smoothed down soldering iron later to get it off?

Thanks,

Jeremy
Senior - Aero
UIUC
SAB - EC rep.
Click to expand...
 
David_West-SAB said:
Question: For the FAA, what does the "builder's log" actually need? In fact, what are all the documentation requirements for the FAA? I'd like to know ahead of time, so we document all the necessary steps from the beginning.

Thanks,
David
Click to expand...

David - the FAA mainly wants to see some evidence that you are the builder of the aircraft. There is no standard. As a minimum, some folks check and date what is completed on the Van's instruction sheets. A minority create web logs or do both, like me. I've heard that the FAA will want to see pictures of you building the plane, but I think that really falls to the whim of the individual examiner, as there are many reports of airworthy inspections where the examiner didn't even ask. Some of them didn't even look at the logs, either. So, to be safe, I would at least check off and date the instructions, and maybe take some pics of you all building the plane along the way. A website is not necessary, but would be neat in your scenario with students.
BTW, for a site visit, 1st weekend in October would be OK mainly on Sunday. Not sure I will be around Saturday. Just email us say(dot)ahh1(at)verizon(dot)net.
 
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Sounds like we have nothing to worry about with the covering for a while, excellent. Thanks guys. Looking forward to meeting some of you today!
 
We had a great time hosting the group from SAB last night! I have a pic of the group at my house that I'll post as soon as my web provider gets my update issues fixed...

Hope you all enjoyed the visit, and we hope to see you all again soon!

:cool:
 
Here's the group at my house...

10-5-08-005w.jpg


:cool:
 
It was great having your group visit. Any of us will be more than happy to help with anything you need.
 
I just wanted to thank all of you for the great time you showed us.
You were all very helpful and informative, and we really enjoyed the visit. We can't wait to get started on our airplane!
 
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