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Music Input

RV8TOR

Well Known Member
Just wondering if anyone had a better recommendation about music inputs. I am planning on using the 1/8" stereo plug jack going into the PS-3000 for my ipod input.

Thanks,
 
This won't work without a pre-amp, at least I couldn't get it to work on my PM3000. I even sent my unit back to the factory for an upgrade that was supposed to allow it but that didn't work either. The audio technical folks will chime in but the power output from the iPod is pretty low and won't drive your headsets with much volume.

I know this isn't the most cost effective way to solve this, but I bought new headsets that have a music input jack at the battery box. I use a splitter to drive both front and back headsets and the music is very loud.

If I had it to do over again, I'd get an audio panel with a built in amplifier. If you have to pre-amp the signal anyway, might as well get the benefit of an audio panel.
 
Just wondering if anyone had a better recommendation about music inputs. I am planning on using the 1/8" stereo plug jack going into the PS-3000 for my ipod input.

Thanks,

Charlie,

I have a stereo input to my Garmin audio panel. I don't know how it would differ from a stand-alone intercom but the mp3 player sounds great through it. I checked the wiring diagram supplied by the company who wired my panel and I don't see it going thru any form of pre-amp.
 
Same question but

Does the PS 6000 have the required pre-amp gain to allow me to run the Ipod through it?

I have not tried it yet.

I guess it wouldn't be that hard to build a pre-amp between the Ipod and the music input if needs be?

Thanks

Frank
 
Nearly all new audio panels now come with a built-in pre-amp in the music circuit just for MP/3 and iPod players.
 
Does the PS 6000 have the required pre-amp gain to allow me to run the Ipod through it?

I have not tried it yet.

I guess it wouldn't be that hard to build a pre-amp between the Ipod and the music input if needs be?

Thanks

Frank

I have a PS 6000 with no pre-amp between the iPod and input, and it works great! It was really quiet for some reason when I used a stereo to mono plug, but when i removed it, it works great. Maybe the iPod is intelligent enough to know if it should be in stereo vs. mono. I get great sounds through the PS 6000 and all of my stuff is wired up for mono.
 
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Mine worked

I have a PSE PM3000 with an entertainment jack. I tried the wife's I-Pod in it the other day and it worked fine. I purchased mine last summer at OSH if that makes a difference.
 
I have a PS 6000 with no pre-amp between the iPod and input, and it works great! It was really quiet for some reason when I used a stereo to mono plug, but when i removed it, it works great. Maybe the iPod is intelligent enough to know if it should be in stereo vs. mono. I get great sounds through the PS 6000 and all of my stuff is wired up for mono.

Cool...Turns out I have a Ps 7000....Haven't tried the IPOD...I can't seem to get the cell phone to work...I hear the cell phone in my headset but can't seem to "transmit".

Any ideas?

Frank
 
Really shouldn't use a mono-to-stereo plug in a stereo-to-mono mode. You end up shorting the two stereo output signals together and could damage the device, probably why the audio output was so low. If you must drive a mono system with a stereo source and don't have a mixer device/circuit, use only one of the stereo channel outputs, I think maybe the left channel may be recommended but not sure.


I didn't use a mono-to-stereo plug -- I used a stereo-to-mono plug. Big difference.
 
iPod and the PM3000

Dear Randy:

We both must be missing something on this one.

In a proper install, ALL iPods that we have tried (and we have tried just about every one since Apple started shipping these little jewels) and we have demonstrated more than enough volume.

Question, could you have accidentally purchased the cable the interfaces your iPod to the PM3000 from Radio Shack and got hold of the one that is really meant for camcorders? If so, there is a 10:1 divider in that particular cable.

We have seen this many a times.

When we returned the unit to you, it would have had to meet our specifications, as stated on the yellow tag we included with the return of your PM3000. This document states that we have tested the system and it met all specifications, including music volume.

I will stay with you on this until it is successfully resolved, my name is riding on it.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
865-988-9800
[email protected]

This won't work without a pre-amp, at least I couldn't get it to work on my PM3000. I even sent my unit back to the factory for an upgrade that was supposed to allow it but that didn't work either. The audio technical folks will chime in but the power output from the iPod is pretty low and won't drive your headsets with much volume.

I know this isn't the most cost effective way to solve this, but I bought new headsets that have a music input jack at the battery box. I use a splitter to drive both front and back headsets and the music is very loud.

If I had it to do over again, I'd get an audio panel with a built in amplifier. If you have to pre-amp the signal anyway, might as well get the benefit of an audio panel.
 
Cellphone and the PMA7000B

Dear Frank:

First, lets confirm you have a cellphone that will work with our system. If you go to www.ps-engineering.com/pma8000b.shtml and then click on the link titled "Cellphones" that is in the text, you'll get a download of the phones that we have tested and work and ones that don't.

The good news is that the majority of phones that have a 3/32 inch jack on them that is intended to connect to a handsfree headset (earset) work very well.

The specialty cellphones unfortunately, decided not to used the standard 3 lead system (tip, ring, and sleeve) but have a four wire circuit. Those don't work.

Anyway, if you could check and see if your phone is listed, I'm confident that we'll get it to work.

Thanks
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

Cool...Turns out I have a Ps 7000....Haven't tried the IPOD...I can't seem to get the cell phone to work...I hear the cell phone in my headset but can't seem to "transmit".

Any ideas?

Frank
 
No amplifier needed for iPods

Dear Joe:

You really shouldn't need any amplifier. Please try your system and advise if you are happy.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

H'mmm, guess I need to get out more, didn't know there was such a thing. Can someone explain how this device works or how it is wired?
 
I will stay with you on this until it is successfully resolved, my name is riding on it.
I've just been a lurker on this thread, but I've been looking at replacing my Sigtronics SPA-400 with one better suited to hook my iPod into. My wife declared that we need music in our RV-6. I was looking at the Sigtronics SPA-4S (easy plug & play replacement for me), but Mark's help here has steered me towards the PS line. (Well done.)

It looks like the PM501 will let me do mono-music with all the proper muting/soft-muting and it's cheaper. Is there a PM501 to SPA-400 pre-wired harness anywhere? Easy enough if there's not...

Hmmm...gotta make sure it'll fit in the same knob & switch holes in my panel though.

EDIT: it looks like the PM501 center & outer holes will match the ones for my existing SPA-400. The other 2 (where the screws go that hold it in place) are about 0.04 off each. Probably close enough to work fine.
 
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Thanks!

Dear Frank:

First, lets confirm you have a cellphone that will work with our system. If you go to www.ps-engineering.com/pma8000b.shtml and then click on the link titled "Cellphones" that is in the text, you'll get a download of the phones that we have tested and work and ones that don't.

The good news is that the majority of phones that have a 3/32 inch jack on them that is intended to connect to a handsfree headset (earset) work very well.

The specialty cellphones unfortunately, decided not to used the standard 3 lead system (tip, ring, and sleeve) but have a four wire circuit. Those don't work.

Anyway, if you could check and see if your phone is listed, I'm confident that we'll get it to work.

Thanks
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

First off mark thanks for monitoring the list and providing help. I agree with Bryan this makes a huge difference to existing and future builders in considering their equipment purchase.

I have an LG phone VX4400..This does not apper on the "Will" work list but it does not appear on the "will not" list either.

it comes with a standard 3/32nd plug and the patch cable I have came with a Ligthspeed headset.

I have a PS 7000 intercom that i wired a cellphone jack to.

When I plug it in I can hear the dial tone and hear the person answer but they cannot hear me..Of course they always hang up before I have a chance to fiddle with the buttons on my intercom..Some people are SO rude..:)

Any ideas?
Thanks

Frank
 
Thanks for the encouragement Frank. I have been a very long time reader but only chime in when I think I can be of "technical" help. I won't use this site for any thing that could be considered salesy!

I use an LG UX8300 with very good results (Verizon), which gives me a good feeling about your unit.

What type of interface cable are you use?

I'll bet when you built your harness you paid close attention to the wiring to the jack that is installed in your aircraft that is depicted on the wiring diagram. You might want to double check that.

Finally, here's the BIG question, did you configure the PMA7000B so that Com 3 is set up to be your cellphone input? Here's a test, press the Com 3 XMT pushbutton, does it FLASH QUICKLY?

If not, there's the problem. You will find specific instructions in the installation manual to make Com 3 NOT a Com radio input but rather a cellular telephone input.

Let me know what you find.

Thanks
Mark

First off mark thanks for monitoring the list and providing help. I agree with Bryan this makes a huge difference to existing and future builders in considering their equipment purchase.

I have an LG phone VX4400..This does not apper on the "Will" work list but it does not appear on the "will not" list either.

it comes with a standard 3/32nd plug and the patch cable I have came with a Ligthspeed headset.

I have a PS 7000 intercom that i wired a cellphone jack to.

When I plug it in I can hear the dial tone and hear the person answer but they cannot hear me..Of course they always hang up before I have a chance to fiddle with the buttons on my intercom..Some people are SO rude..:)

Any ideas?
Thanks

Frank
 
Dear Brian:

I could NOT recommend the PM501 for you, it will not give you the results you so richly deserve in your RV-6. The PM501 is an intercom with just on VOX circuit, does not mute music during aircraft radio reception and is not designed to work in loud aircraft (no offense).

Either the PM1000II (part #11922 and is only about $70 more) or the PM3000A (11931a and this one provides 2 unswitched inputs) would be much better for you.

There are so many reasons to go with either one of those two I don't know where to start. So I'll just say trust me......or better yet, you can look at them at www.ps-engineering.com/pm1000.shtml and www.ps-engineering.com/pm3000.shtml

The PM501 just does not provide the value as these other two. Why do we sell it? Because there are those who we never get a chance to talk with, and they will make their buying decision on price (typically these pilots are are extremely price conscience) but want to buy PS Engineering because they hear good things about us.

Besides, the faceplate of the 1000II and 3000 are anodized aluminum (instead of a vinyl decal) and will cover up all of the existing holes used to mount the SPA400.

Finally, and this is going to sound harsh, but I really need to be frank with you, if you are not planning on building a brand new harness for any of our intercoms, you will be better off with staying with the SPA400. The harnesses are in now way compatible and you will NOT be happy with our intercom's performance unless you wire it exactly as our prints.

This in the long run will keep both of us happy.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering



I've just been a lurker on this thread, but I've been looking at replacing my Sigtronics SPA-400 with one better suited to hook my iPod into. My wife declared that we need music in our RV-6. I was looking at the Sigtronics SPA-4S (easy plug & play replacement for me), but Mark's help here has steered me towards the PS line. (Well done.)

It looks like the PM501 will let me do mono-music with all the proper muting/soft-muting and it's cheaper. Is there a PM501 to SPA-400 pre-wired harness anywhere? Easy enough if there's not...

Hmmm...gotta make sure it'll fit in the same knob & switch holes in my panel though.

EDIT: it looks like the PM501 center & outer holes will match the ones for my existing SPA-400. The other 2 (where the screws go that hold it in place) are about 0.04 off each. Probably close enough to work fine.
 
OK, here is my $.02 but only because I NEVER have an opinion on anything. ;)

I have a Sigtronics 200S installed in my -9 and mounted an 1/8" stereo jack on the panel for my iPod. As it turns out, my truck also has an 1/8" stereo jack on the panel.

Using any one our our three iPods in either the truck or the RV requires you to turn the iPod's volume way up. Once that is done, all works great.

PS. Don't forget to install some type of cigarette lighter plug so you can recharge your iPod in flight. I can't tell you how many times we have grabbed the iPod only to find a low battery. (I installed duel unit from West Marine, one is wired to the always hot bus so I can charge the battery through it and the other is on the avionics master.)
 
This won't work without a pre-amp, at least I couldn't get it to work on my PM3000. I even sent my unit back to the factory for an upgrade that was supposed to allow it but that didn't work either. The audio technical folks will chime in but the power output from the iPod is pretty low and won't drive your headsets with much volume.

I have the PM-3000A in my Cherokee, and we're installing one in the RV-8. The 1/8" stereo music input jack is wired up exactly like the installation booklet diagram says, and it is very loud with either an iPod or a generic MP3 player plugged in. No problems at all with lack of music volume, in fact I can turn the volume down on the MP3 player to about 30% and help save it's battery life. With my old Flightcom intercom, I had to run the MP3 player at full volume, which made it drain batteries faster, or use an outboard external preamp (homemade "Headbanger" headphone amp) to get it loud enough.

Music with my new PM-3000A is louder and clearer with the MP3 player plugged straight in than the old intercom ever was, even with the outboard preamp in line.

Kudos to Mark Scheuer for making such a great performing intercom in the PM-3000A. I heartily recommend it to everyone who asks my opinion.
 
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!

I use an LG UX8300 with very good results (Verizon), which gives me a good feeling about your unit.

What type of interface cable are you use?

I'll bet when you built your harness you paid close attention to the wiring to the jack that is installed in your aircraft that is depicted on the wiring diagram. You might want to double check that.

Finally, here's the BIG question, did you configure the PMA7000B so that Com 3 is set up to be your cellphone input? Here's a test, press the Com 3 XMT pushbutton, does it FLASH QUICKLY?

If not, there's the problem. You will find specific instructions in the installation manual to make Com 3 NOT a Com radio input but rather a cellular telephone input.

Let me know what you find.

Thanks
Mark

The patch cable has a 3/32nd plug at one end and a 1/8th at the other...Cable came with my Lightspeed headphones.

Interestingly I get the same trouble when I plug the cell directly into the lightspeed headphones...I swapped the cable no difference.

I then plugged in a cheesy "handsfree" headset into the phone and that worked fine..So i assumed the phone must be OK.

So I got a new cable...same effect...Hmm...

As to the Ps7000 I did press the com 3 transmit and it does flash quickly.

I'm wondering if this patch cable supply is wired right?..

Frank
 
Dear Randy:

We both must be missing something on this one.

In a proper install, ALL iPods that we have tried (and we have tried just about every one since Apple started shipping these little jewels) and we have demonstrated more than enough volume.

Question, could you have accidentally purchased the cable the interfaces your iPod to the PM3000 from Radio Shack and got hold of the one that is really meant for camcorders? If so, there is a 10:1 divider in that particular cable.

We have seen this many a times.

When we returned the unit to you, it would have had to meet our specifications, as stated on the yellow tag we included with the return of your PM3000. This document states that we have tested the system and it met all specifications, including music volume.

I will stay with you on this until it is successfully resolved, my name is riding on it.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering, Inc.
865-988-9800
[email protected]

Okay Mark, I'll take you up on this.

If you have a moment, can you go to this link http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/PDF%20Files/Intercom.pdf. This is the wiring diagram for my intercomm. Let's make sure that I haven't done something that I souldn't have. I do have some Aux voice imputs wired in so maybe these are affecting things.

I use LightSPEED 30-3G headsets and my Rocket is wired exactly according to this diagram. I look forward to your response.
 
Hi Randy:

I don't see the audio return line for the iPod. Without that, you will get the exact same results as you are seeing. You will need a Left Channel, Right Channel, and an audio return.

Also, what you have done at the Aircraft Radio input is something I just have to tell you that you should not do. Of course you can, it's and experimental, but it is a bad practice. Input impedance will no longer be 510 ohms and that may have effects on these audio lines.

(Did you install the Axillary Mic and Headphone jacks?)

Let me know what happens to your music level after you add this all important wire.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

Okay Mark, I'll take you up on this.

If you have a moment, can you go to this link http://www.pflanzer-aviation.com/PDF%20Files/Intercom.pdf. This is the wiring diagram for my intercomm. Let's make sure that I haven't done something that I souldn't have. I do have some Aux voice imputs wired in so maybe these are affecting things.

I use LightSPEED 30-3G headsets and my Rocket is wired exactly according to this diagram. I look forward to your response.
 
Great about the flashing Com 3 buttons when pressed, good stuff.

If you want, you are more than welcomed to send your phone into us and we'll take it to our bench and determine what is wrong and what can be done. Just let me know and I'll give you an RMA number.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

The patch cable has a 3/32nd plug at one end and a 1/8th at the other...Cable came with my Lightspeed headphones.

Interestingly I get the same trouble when I plug the cell directly into the lightspeed headphones...I swapped the cable no difference.

I then plugged in a cheesy "handsfree" headset into the phone and that worked fine..So i assumed the phone must be OK.

So I got a new cable...same effect...Hmm...

As to the Ps7000 I did press the com 3 transmit and it does flash quickly.

I'm wondering if this patch cable supply is wired right?..

Frank
 
Hi Randy:

I don't see the audio return line for the iPod. Without that, you will get the exact same results as you are seeing. You will need a Left Channel, Right Channel, and an audio return.

Okay, I'll try this. What pin does it connect to?

Also, what you have done at the Aircraft Radio input is something I just have to tell you that you should not do. Of course you can, it's and experimental, but it is a bad practice. Input impedance will no longer be 510 ohms and that may have effects on these audio lines.
I didn't do this, a "professional" radio shop pre-wired this to handle multiple audio inputs from the GNS430 and EFIS. What is the proper way to connect these inputs?

(Did you install the Axillary Mic and Headphone jacks?)
Nope.

Thanks for your quick feedback Mark.
 
Impedance matching

Just wondering if anyone had a better recommendation about music inputs. I am planning on using the 1/8" stereo plug jack going into the PS-3000 for my iPod input. Thanks,
As PS Engineering said, you should be fine. I don't mean to disagree with anyone, but just in general, there can be a big impedance mismatch. Other intercoms with out a good pre-amplified aux input, like the PS Eng unit might have, can suffer from impedance mismatch, making Aux input source volume too low, even with the volume full.

The iPod has 32 ohm impedance output/headphones; other portable devices about the same or 24 or 16 ohm. The audio input impedance to intercoms can be about 600 ohms (to 1000 ohms). So a matching transformer can help the volume problem. It's passive (no battery needed) You can buy a ready made stereo/stereo impedance matching box or you can roll your own for about $15-$20. (see two LINKS below):

Impedance match about $35

Radio Shack part (It's 8 ohm / 1,000 ohm with center tap, close enough, roll your own, two needed for stereo. There may be better but for $3 and convience, Radio Shack works.)

The high side of the transformer (intercom side) has a center tap. You may use it, you may not, experiment. If going from STEREO to MONO the matching transformers can kill two birds, match impedance match but combine L&R stereo to mono. Use the center tap in this case. You should never tie L & R channels of stereo together directly, its poor form, may even damage your portable device.

stereotomono2mr8.jpg
 
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Dear Brian:

I could NOT recommend the PM501 for you, it will not give you the results you so richly deserve in your RV-6. The PM501 is an intercom with just on VOX circuit, does not mute music during aircraft radio reception and is not designed to work in loud aircraft (no offense).

Either the PM1000II (part #11922 and is only about $70 more) or the PM3000A (11931a and this one provides 2 unswitched inputs) would be much better for you.
Great, thanks for the input. I'll check into them.
 
Audio Return Pin for Music Audio

Pin 1

Please go to our web site for the PM3000A (www.ps-engineering.com/pm3000.shtml) and download the installation manual. This will be very helpful for you to see how this intercom needs to be installed.

Our music input in the PM3000A is differential, it is NOT referenced to ground. Without this audio return line, this circuit just can't work.

This input is differential do eliminate ground loop noise, a noise this is common with systems that reference the music reference to ground.

Mark

Okay, I'll try this. What pin does it connect to?


I didn't do this, a "professional" radio shop pre-wired this to handle multiple audio inputs from the GNS430 and EFIS. What is the proper way to connect these inputs?


Nope.

Thanks for your quick feedback Mark.
 
Randy, those additional inputs should be installed into inputs that are considered "unswitched".

If you have our PM3000A (part number 11931A) this intercom has two of these unswitched inputs. That's where those other signals should have gone.

Unfortunately, most other intercoms, including all of our other ones other than the PM3000A, don't have these unswitched inputs and there really aren't any good solutions.

That's the problem we solved when we added these two inputs to the PM3000A

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

Originally Posted by mscheuer View Post
Also, what you have done at the Aircraft Radio input is something I just have to tell you that you should not do. Of course you can, it's and experimental, but it is a bad practice. Input impedance will no longer be 510 ohms and that may have effects on these audio lines.

I didn't do this, a "professional" radio shop pre-wired this to handle multiple audio inputs from the GNS430 and EFIS. What is the proper way to connect these inputs?
 
Thanks mark

Great about the flashing Com 3 buttons when pressed, good stuff.

If you want, you are more than welcomed to send your phone into us and we'll take it to our bench and determine what is wrong and what can be done. Just let me know and I'll give you an RMA number.

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering

I'll dink around with it for a bit and see..Its not like its an essential feature, just a nice to have... But if no joy I'll take you up on the offer

Cheers

Frank
 
PM501

I have a 501 installed in my "9" and it is working just fine--- maybe? Now you have me wondering on just what I am missing.:confused: looking at the plans it would be a easy retrofit to the PM1000II but if it's just for music I think I'll pass.
Dear Brian:

I could NOT recommend the PM501 for you, it will not give you the results you so richly deserve in your RV-6. The PM501 is an intercom with just on VOX circuit, does not mute music during aircraft radio reception and is not designed to work in loud aircraft (no offense).

Either the PM1000II (part #11922 and is only about $70 more) or the PM3000A (11931a and this one provides 2 unswitched inputs) would be much better for you.

There are so many reasons to go with either one of those two I don't know where to start. So I'll just say trust me......or better yet, you can look at them at www.ps-engineering.com/pm1000.shtml and www.ps-engineering.com/pm3000.shtml

The PM501 just does not provide the value as these other two. Why do we sell it? Because there are those who we never get a chance to talk with, and they will make their buying decision on price (typically these pilots are are extremely price conscience) but want to buy PS Engineering because they hear good things about us.

Besides, the faceplate of the 1000II and 3000 are anodized aluminum (instead of a vinyl decal) and will cover up all of the existing holes used to mount the SPA400.

Finally, and this is going to sound harsh, but I really need to be frank with you, if you are not planning on building a brand new harness for any of our intercoms, you will be better off with staying with the SPA400. The harnesses are in now way compatible and you will NOT be happy with our intercom's performance unless you wire it exactly as our prints.

This in the long run will keep both of us happy.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Thanks Frank for installing our PM501. I'm glad to hear it is performing for you. Here's the deal, the PM501 has only one VOX circuit. When one microphone circuit is opened, the other microphone will open, bring more noise into the intercom conversation.

The other potential issue is that there is only one trip level (one VOX adjustment) so you need to set the trip level for the more sensitive microphone, creating a situation for clipping of the first syllables for the person who has the less sensitive microphone.

Then there are the cosmetics. The PM501 uses a vinyl decal where the PM1000II and PM3000A uses an anodized metal faceplate.

Again, I'm very appreciative you trusting us with your audio and I'm delighted to hear that you are satisfied with your PM501.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Mark,
Cool more great info, for some reason I didn't take Stein's advice to get the better PSE (I followed his wisdom on everything else) oh well it tis the season for upgrades:) Im sold (again) and besides I found a way to get quite comfy under my panel.
Thanks,

Thanks Frank for installing our PM501. I'm glad to hear it is performing for you. Here's the deal, the PM501 has only one VOX circuit. When one microphone circuit is opened, the other microphone will open, bring more noise into the intercom conversation.

The other potential issue is that there is only one trip level (one VOX adjustment) so you need to set the trip level for the more sensitive microphone, creating a situation for clipping of the first syllables for the person who has the less sensitive microphone.

Then there are the cosmetics. The PM501 uses a vinyl decal where the PM1000II and PM3000A uses an anodized metal faceplate.

Again, I'm very appreciative you trusting us with your audio and I'm delighted to hear that you are satisfied with your PM501.

Sincerely,
Mark Scheuer
PS Engineering
 
Can not find a matching transformer...

Hi all,

Just hoping someone can help me with this matching transformer thing. I tried to get the Radioshack transformers, but they are out of stock and in any case I am in the UK.

I am also confused as another website suggests that the transformer runs the other way - 1000ohms to 8ohms - does it matter which way it runs (primary/secondary) as long as you wire it the correct way?

Just found that the LT700 transformer lists as 1.2k ohms to 3.2ohms and that it has a winding ratio of 9:1 or 18:1 depending on using center tap or not. Does that mean that if I wire in my 32ohm MP3 player in one side, I will get 576 ohms on the 18:1 tap? Or am I being incredibly simplistic?


Also found this:
http://www.rapidonline.com/netalogue/specs/88-2120.pdf
Have no idea if that is anygood?

I may have found some in the UK, so just need to know if I should go ahead. (I hate electronics...)

Thanks
 
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