Considering RV-8

Hey All,

I am new so...

A little about me:

I am 25 years old. Have been a pilot since I was 20. I graduated from the Aeronautical Science program at LeTourneau University in Longview, Texas in 2005. While in school I got my commercial certificate, flight instructor certificates, as well as my A&P mechanic certificate. I flight instructed for a year before I got my current job flying contract King Air 200s based out of VA. I've now been flying King Airs in the Middle East (lotsa sand) for about 2 years now.

I am a professional pilot and am planning on a long career in aviation. However, aviation as a job is not fun (well less fun) unless you have your own plane to 'mess about in.' Over the past several months I've been thinking long and hard about buying a plane. A friend of mine from college is into building kit planes and he got me thinking about building my own... before I start this project I want to be sure I will see it through and I want as much info as possible before I start... if you guys don't mind I would like to pick your collective brains for information so I can get some direction before I make the plunge.

Preliminary Questions:

Average cost from nothing to flyable? I am planning on building an RV-8. I want something which can get up and go somewhere. I love the tandem "fighter plane" seating and the tail wheel sealed the deal. I was thinking I would like to get a 180 to 200hp engine with a constant speed prop. What is a good amount to budget toward this project?

IFR? Because I plan on most using this plane for cross countries I will make it IFR 'certified'. I probably will set it up similar to the G1000 Cessnas I've flown but with the Dynon flight system... or I could just do a normal 6pack with a GNS430. I would use as many TSO'd instruments as possible. Any recommendations on this?

Average build time? As mentioned before I am a certified A&P. I have some shop experience out of school. In school I learned every basic skill from welding, to riveting, to composites, to paint. However, I will not work fast. I want this to be "perfect."

Best to buy a new or used engine? I have limited experience with recip engines. Obviously I did recip engine work in school but most of my experience as an A&P has been on PT6s and airframe work.

Space? Currently I have a garage but my car takes up most of the space. I may have to kick it out... but there are also climate controlled storage units just down the street. Recommendations?

Those are my questions for now... any info is much appreciated!

Thanks

Justin

Those are some broad questions!

Ok, I'll take a stab at this.

Cost: Consider that there are many variables... but if you're looking for rough order of magnitude, plan on approx $100K plus or minus $30K. With a CS prop and IFR avionics you're probably not near the bottom of that range.

Build time: There's even more variability here, both with respect to man hours and with respect to calendar time. I'm not even going to venture a number, but it's typically on the order of a few 1000's of man hours and a few years calendar time. If you want to keep it on the lower end of the spectrum, you'll want to keep the following factors in mind: 1. Absolute perfection is not attainable, and perfectionism increases build time dramatically. Master the art of good enough. 2. Custom modifications increase build time dramatically, and I mean DRAMATICALLY. Limit yourself to only the ones you really care about. I know this because I've been a regular violator of both these tenets, but that's in line with my priorities -- get it closer to being the airplane I want, although knowing it'll take longer. You'll have to define your priorities and strike your own balance.

Avionics: Search the forums. There are many good threads on the topic. Lots of options here, and you'll find a wide spectrum of opinions. Again, you'll have to make decisions that fit your own priorities.

Engine: likewise.

Workspace: A two car garage will get you through most of the project comfortably. Some have done it in a one car garage.

Recommendations

pilotshive said:

Hey All,

Preliminary Questions:

Average cost from nothing to flyable? I am planning on building an RV-8.

I want something which can get up and go somewhere. I love the tandem "fighter plane" seating and the tail wheel sealed the deal. I was thinking I would like to get a 180 to 200hp engine with a constant speed prop. What is a good amount to budget toward this project?

FROM RDD: If you go slow build add 30% minimum extra build time but save about $10,000.00 on the Kit. Van's projection of $72,000 to $87,000 is a little on the low side for a glass screen IFR Quick Build RV-8. I would add at least $20,000 to the price projection.

IFR? Because I plan on most using this plane for cross countries I will make it IFR 'certified'. I probably will set it up similar to the G1000 Cessnas I've flown but with the Dynon flight system... or I could just do a normal 6pack with a GNS430. I would use as many TSO'd instruments as possible. Any recommendations on this?

FROM RDD: Check out the Grand Raids New 8.4" Synthatic Vision EFIS, a TruTrak Autopilot with a 430W and SL40.

Average build time? As mentioned before I am a certified A&P. I have some shop experience out of school. In school I learned every basic skill from welding, to riveting, to composites, to paint. However, I will not work fast. I want this to be "perfect."

Best to buy a new or used engine? I have limited experience with recip engines. Obviously I did recip engine work in school but most of my experience as an A&P has been on PT6s and airframe work.

FROM RDD: Go with an ECI 180HP Fuel Injection (Silver Hawk) kit engine.

Space? Currently I have a garage but my car takes up most of the space. I may have to kick it out... but there are also climate controlled storage units just down the street. Recommendations?

FROM RDD: Kick your car out of the garage. Hang the Tail parts on the wall after completation. Build a wing / HS rack to store the QB wings in when they arrive. When you have the fuselage ready for the engine hang move everything to an airport hanger.

Click to expand...

Hi Justin.....

....and welcome to VAF.

I'm with Russ on the choice of a GRT synthetic vision glass. I have steam gauges but they're gonna be shrt-lived. With a 430 and an autopilot, you can fly coupled approaches.

Go with a quickbuild if you want to halve your build time, or close to it.

How long to build? It varies immensely, from 8 months to ten years....it all depends on availibility of money, your time and mainly, your dedication and commitment. Accomplishing what you already have at a young age is commendable so you are obviously pretty well disciplined, but this kind of project takes some sho 'nuff discipline and drive to complete.

Regards,

newbie wanting RV-8

Justin, understand you have ability to build one of these birds, but maybe consider buying a flying or partial project. Note that there are many avail. at excellent prices...I bot my 8 2 yrs ago & have done some mods and love it. For no more than 80-100k there are flying machines around. If you are patient and don't mind watching others fly while you work, then go for it. There's not much $$$ saved by bldg your own...

great to be here...

Thanks Pierre!

Everyone, thanks for all the info so far! I've been doing a lot of number crunching over the past few days and thanks to a lot of reading on this forum and your responses I have some direction. More input is always appreciated.

I've decided on a RV-8 with quick build. I want to get into the air sooner rather than later. (Sooner meaning a couple years.) I have a wish list of avionics which will probably change to keep me under budget but the GRT Horizon system looks amazing and hopefully I'll be able to fit it into the budget. I'm planning on 2 - 3 years to complete this project due to my current job's deployment schedule. Because I am blessed with time I will hopefully find good deals on many of the parts and equipment along the way.

In response to flyguy44, I would love to buy an already flying RV-8. In fact I've been looking... Unfortunately, I am not able to budget that large of a payment up front.

I am definitely in the market for a partially completed RV-8 QB kit... and would love to pick that up to save some money and time.

Justin

Welcome to VAF!!!!

Justin, welcome aboard.

Good advice already given above.

I will add a couple of things--------

Keep watch on these forums, you can both learn a lot, and pick up good deals on items you will need as you build, tools, accessories, avionics, engines, etc.

Start planning your panel, powerplant prop etc now, but do it in broad terms. If you want glass, then work with that in mind-----but leave the decision of which EFIS till late in the game. The rate of advancement in this field is just astounding. Engine and prop, same thing ----- set guidelines, but wait for specifics until you need to make that call.

Good luck.

pilotshive said:

Thanks Pierre!

Everyone, thanks for all the info so far! I've been doing a lot of number crunching over the past few days and thanks to a lot of reading on this forum and your responses I have some direction. More input is always appreciated.

I've decided on a RV-8 with quick build. I want to get into the air sooner rather than later. (Sooner meaning a couple years.) I have a wish list of avionics which will probably change to keep me under budget but the GRT Horizon system looks amazing and hopefully I'll be able to fit it into the budget. I'm planning on 2 - 3 years to complete this project due to my current job's deployment schedule. Because I am blessed with time I will hopefully find good deals on many of the parts and equipment along the way.

In response to flyguy44, I would love to buy an already flying RV-8. In fact I've been looking... Unfortunately, I am not able to budget that large of a payment up front.

I am definitely in the market for a partially completed RV-8 QB kit... and would love to pick that up to save some money and time.

Justin

Click to expand...

Justin,

You will love the -8!

Since it appears budget, not time, is a major factor in your plans and you intend to enjoy the build, I suggest you go with a standard kit instead of quickbuild. Keep in mind getting the airframe to a point where it resembles an airplane is only about 1/2 of the total project time investment. The new kits are so refined that the distinction between standard and QB build times is not a major factor in total project time. Matter of fact, some builders are able to nearly complete a standard sub-kit in the same amount of time as the lead-time for a QB. Think of the money that is saved for the panel/engine kitty.

Also, while it is fun to kick avionics "tires", the state of avionics is advancing so rapidly that what you are currently researching will be obsolete by the time you are ready to purchase the goodies for your panel. Keep an eye on avionics for the next few years, but the stuff available 3-5 years from now will be breathtaking! Put off all avionics purchases until the very last moment.

You are considering a challenging and exciting journey--best wishes for a smooth completion of your RV!

pierre smith said:

Go with a quickbuild if you want to halve your build time, or close to it.

Click to expand...

I agree that a quickbuild kit would cut the build time for the structure about in half. But, building the structure is only about half of the project. So, buying a quickbuild kit would only save about 25% of the build time for the whole project.

Hi Justin - welcome aboard!

For a professional pilot, it is very hard to beat the RV-8. Mine is set up for traveling, with good weather capability, great range, and the ability to do some fun aerobatics.

One of the best parts of building an RV (aside from being able to equip it with far more remarkable equipment than you can afford - or even find - in a certified airplane) is that the cost of maintenance is far, far lower than a certified airplane. Once you have the repairman's certificate, you need never pay an A&P again. I have owned airplanes for close to 30 years, and will never have a certified one again!

Enjoy the journey.

Paul

Sam Buchanan said:

Since it appears budget, not time, is a major factor in your plans and you intend to enjoy the build, I suggest you go with a standard kit instead of quickbuild. Keep in mind getting the airframe to a point where it resembles an airplane is only about 1/2 of the total project time investment. The new kits are so refined that the distinction between standard and QB build times is not a major factor in total project time. Matter of fact, some builders are able to nearly complete a standard sub-kit in the same amount of time as the lead-time for a QB. Think of the money that is saved for the panel/engine kitty.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more Sam.

I'm one of those builders that had both my wings and my fuse to the point of "quick build" in less time than it would have taken Vans to get them to me. Not to mention my -8 fuse was delivered a few months before the match-holed -8 fuse kits came out, that would have saved even more time.

Admittedly, I generally have a bit more time to work on my -8 than some. But it can be done with a little bit of determination. Still, with the time I had available it took me 3 years, 9 months from the first kit to taxi as I (like many of you) was on the pay as you go plan. If I had ordered quick build wings and fuse, I would still be saving for an engine or avionics. So in my case, a "quick build" would have prolonged the build, not shortened it.

I don't think it's fair to say construction time will be cut just by using a quick build kit, it really comes down to how determined the builder is and how much time they have to spend building. The one thing that does hold true is, the sooner you start the sooner you will finish!

All the above is absolutely true, but also consider that you can build on a budget, and add equipment you want later. On my -7 project I am shooting for a 50K build, to which some people said it can't be done...

Of course, then I found my -4 project and decided that it'll be a $30K build, day/night VFR.

If you know some people in aviation, and are a little good at scrounging, don't mind buying a used engine and prop... you can totally do it cheaper, and in the end you'll still have just as nice an airplane as anyone else. Workmanship makes a nice RV, not all the junk you pack into the panel.

Another FWIW..

....If I had it to do over, I definitely would have a three piece modular panel. This allows you to do very basic VFR and later, just pull the left panel and make another for an EFIS upgrade or any other additions. I have bled, banged and hurt from crawling under the dash, trying to finish my TruTrak install.......boy, a modular dash would have allowed me to sit and install it...hindsight and all that....at 63, I don't bend so well

Furthermore, I'd at least install the servo mounting plates for an autopilot during the build. Down the road, you can add that as well.

Regards,