What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

How to Ditch your PlanePower Alt for $172.94 or Less

alpinelakespilot2000

Well Known Member
A couple months ago, in the midst of trying to figure out recurring failures on my Plane Power alternator, I started the alternator reliability poll which confirmed that I was not the only one having troubles. I thus began the process of switching to the 35A automotive version that Van's originally sold and provided support for. I liked the ready availability of the parts (both at home and on cross-countries) and at a cost that was far less than the PP alternative. It's pretty hard to beat the cost of a $23 alternator, even if I pre-emptively replaced it every annual! :D) For the majority of VFR aircraft, this is certainly more than adequate in terms of power output. This installation has so far proved completely successful for me.

This post is not meant to convince anyone that the automotive version is right for them, but for those who do want to switch, below should be a complete listing of all parts that could possibly be needed to do the conversion. Thanks to those who went before me in the forums and to Van's for helping me identify the needed parts.

Hope this helps those who may follow.

Local Autoparts Store
35A alternator for 1976-79 Honda CVCC w/out air conditioning, [#14184]* $23.99
VR166-type voltage regulator suitable for 1975 Ford LTD, [#VR730] $21.99
Alternator Belt, Gates XL 7350 (size required may vary depending on your engine/ring gear)**$8.81

B&C Specialty
FastOn 0.1875" red connectors for voltage regulator [#RFO18-10] $3.00
FastOn 0.1875" blue connectors for voltage regulator [#BFO 18-10] $3.00
Overvoltage protection module with drawing, 14V [#OVM-14] $40.00

Vans***
Boss Mount alternator bracket [#VA-151-2] $38.00
Connector plug for 35A alternator [#ES 50-01205] $5.40
Alternator tensioner arm [#VA-152-1] $12.00
Alternator Installation Instructions [#DOC-ALTERNATOR 35/60] $3.00
5/16-18x1" bolts (qty. 5) [#BOLT HEX 5/16-18x1] $0.90
5/16-18x1" drilled head bolts (qty. 2) [#BOLT HEX 5/16-18x1 DH] $2.70
8.8 M5 metric drilled head bolt (qty. 1) [#BOLT METRIC 8.8 M5 DH] $1.96
Altenator mount lockplates (qty. 2) [#HW LOCKPLATE ALTERNTR] $3.30
5/16-24 metal lock nuts (qty. 2) [#MS21045-5} $0.80
5/16 lockwashers (qty. 1) [#WASHER LOCK 5/16] $0.07
AN960-516 washers (qty. 6) $0.30
AN960-516L washers (qty. 4) $0.32
AN5-11A bolt (qty. 1) $0.49
AN5-13A bolt (qty. 2) $1.02
AN5-17A bolt (qty. 1) $0.89

MISC
1/8" steel from local hardware store to fabricate alternator bracket to starter support if needed $1.00

TOTAL $172.94

Notes:

*Alternator #14129 is apparently functionally equivalent to the #14184 except that its fan vanes are pointed to push air a different direction. If using the alternator without the fan, which is how Van's supplied #14184, then #14129 may be used if more readily available--Fan easily removed with impact wrench. The store can usually do it for you.

**Various versions of Van's alternator installation instructions call out Gate 7350, 7355, or 7360 belts--again, the size is dependent on your installation and whether you install the alternator with or without the fan. The easiest thing to do is buy all three from the auto parts store and just return what you don't use.

***Not all parts listed from Vans are necessarily required for your installation but are what used to come in the hardware bag Van's supplied for the 35 and 60 amp ND alternators it sold.

Vans wiring diagram for their 35A and 60A alternators can be found in the FWF drawing #OP-10.
 
Last edited:
I'm new to this arena, but what the heck is failing on these things? I acquired a certified 70 A PP out of a Mooney, are there many differences in this one and the 60 A? not flying yet, just want a feel for what to expect as far as reliability. in the survey it looked like B&C and PP were close?
 
I'm new to this arena, but what the heck is failing on these things? I acquired a certified 70 A PP out of a Mooney, are there many differences in this one and the 60 A? not flying yet, just want a feel for what to expect as far as reliability. in the survey it looked like B&C and PP were close?

You should be fine, Bret, PP has a production problem on the 60A with the stator becoming loose and breaking the wires. This ( 60A mind you ) one has solid wires that wrap around a screw to secure them not an eyelet, so if the process pulled them tight then it does not take much movement to fatigue them. There were other vibration failures too, connector, brush holder and brushes, so it might be other related issues. Also it was on the units right after Hartzell took over, so again if yours has a little age then you are again fine. Not a definitive answer, but you could call Hartnell and ask about the progress of the investigation and give your serial number for evaluation.

Sad we have not heard what PP is doing to fix this issue.

I think you should revisit the survey thread, auto and PP were close, B&C seemed to stand out, way out.

Outstanding post, Steve! Well done. Did you determine what makes one alternator 35A and the other 60A with the same stator, housing, bearings and armature?
 
Last edited:
49clipper

Do they automotive alternators listed above come in a larger amperage? I sure could use a 45A unit, but I would like to stay with the unit I have.
 
It's pretty hard to beat the cost of a $23 alternator, even if I pre-emptively replaced it every annual! :D)


Good Show, Steve!! It may be even cheaper......Lifetime warranty with free replacement on many of these. My "Samurai" has had a replacement in its 1675 hrs. Walk into store - they test on the bench, here's a new one........ Thanks!

I call my plane "Samurai" when I am looking at the alternator.......

Caveats - I only fly VFR with minimal electrical loads.
 
Jim,

One weekend a while ago I decided to do an investigation of the alternator options. I went searching for all of the auto alternators that might work and also the other options. I put all of this information in a word doc as a set of notes so when I actually got around to needing an alternator I'd have the information.

PM me with your email address and I send you my notes that I put together.
 
It's pretty hard to beat the cost of a $23 alternator, even if I pre-emptively replaced it every annual!

Excellent write-up!

If replacing the 14184 alternator at every "annual" fits your needs, then the "life-time warranty" for your 1979 Honda alternator will come in handy. :)

However, since my RV-6 was put in service in 1999, I have used three of these cheap alternators. The first one (purchased from Vans, no fan) went about 900 hours (killed the diodes after jumping off a dead battery), the second had bearing problems at 150 hours, and the third has been trouble-free for the past 250 hours. I suggest you pull the belt off the alternator pulley at each inspection, spin the pulley to insure the bearings feel good, then fly it for another year.

I'm still driving the Honda.... ;)
 
Last edited:
Is the $23 alt internally regulated?
As Sam says, no. That's why a voltage regulator is listed in the parts list. The overvoltage module he notes is also on the list. My list was designed based on and cross referenced against the schematics in AeroElectric connection. I think it's the first schematic in Bob Nuckolls book. I intentionally did not make up anything on my own because I wanted a proven system drawn up by someone a lot smarter than I.

If you want internal regulation, many others, like Pete, have very successfully used the larger Samurai version that Vans sold and supported. That said you will need to be aware of the debates about how overvoltage issues should be handled with an automotive IR alternator. And then make some decisions yourself. That added just a bit of complexity that I didn't yet want to deal with, especially since external regulators are cheap and also field replaceable.
 
Last edited:
Cheaper is sometimes better?

...Also it was on the units right after Hartzell took over, so again if yours has a little age then you are again fine. Not a definitive answer, but you could call Hartnell (sic) and ask about the progress of the investigation and give your serial number for evaluation.
BillL

Not all failures are from later production units. I don't know where that myth is from. Nor are all failures from fatigue/vibration. It could be that most failures are, I don't know.

I think you should revisit the survey thread, auto and PP were close, B&C seemed to stand out, way out.
BillL

The statistics are very small, but it seems to me that the take home message is that the far less expensive auto units are more reliable than Plane Power units.
 
BillL

Not all failures are from later production units. I don't know where that myth is from. Nor are all failures from fatigue/vibration. It could be that most failures are, I don't know.

BillL

The statistics are very small, but it seems to me that the take home message is that the far less expensive auto units are more reliable than Plane Power units.

Jim, I plotted the failures on a weibull. There were two groups, one early hour and one higher hour. The higher hour failures were assumed to be "wear out" but if you know the terms, it is not literal. The early hour failures linked to the post hartzell acquisition date is not a myth, it is from the posts and a discussion with Hartzell. Vibration was my thought, but his words. But, as with all production problems, vibration would not the only change needed. Stators just should not fail. I did an analysis of my former companies alternator failure modes for 100k units, and the stator failures were very rare, near the bottom of the list of possibilities. And that is bolted onto diesel engines with high frequency vibration and very long hours compared to ours.

I would certainly agree on the cost/hour comment, but with the longevity of the B&C, it might be close, and a much longer period of confident operation for the user.
 
Another plane power failure

I just had my 3rd plane power failure in 2 years. It was the plane power 60 amp alternator. Now I'm trying to find another alternator to go with that I can put in. My plane power was internally regulated. Is there any other options that are internally regulated ? I'm not very electrical savy to be installing an external voltage regulator
 
PP 70A alternator

All of this discussion concerns me, as I have an electrically dependent airplane. My alternator is the PP 70A version. I don't see it discussed anywhere in this thread. Is that because there is no data, or are the 70A ones being lumped in with the 60A ones?
 
49clipper

I pm a message, but your basket is full.
Jim,




One weekend a while ago I decided to do an investigation of the alternator options. I went searching for all of the auto alternators that might work and also the other options. I put all of this information in a word doc as a set of notes so when I actually got around to needing an alternator I'd have the information.

PM me with your email address and I send you my notes that I put together.
 
Ok. I cleanup up my mailbox.

I do want to caveat my notes in that I haven't tried any of the hardware listed in my notes. This is purely a web search study. As far as I know all of the information is correct, but it is purely the responsibility of others to confirm on their own the acceptability of the alternators or other hardware.
 
Do they automotive alternators listed above come in a larger amperage? I sure could use a 45A unit, but I would like to stay with the unit I have.

14158 is the Lester #. This is a 50 amp, externally regulated, counter-clockwise (what you want for a lycoming) and has a 1/2" larger pulley. This works perfectly with my older generator style flywheel. I calculated about 8,000 RPM at 2700 and I can still produce over 20 amps at idle. They have a 45 amp cc version with the smaller pulley, but I don't have the listing of model numbers anymore. This alternator is bigger than the 35A version, but fit on my O-320. They go for about $40 at parts store or Amazon. I bought a spare for $23 at Rock auto.

My experience is that internal regulators fail far more frequently than external regulators; The new solid-state versions, of course, not the original design with contact points.

Larry
 
Last edited:
CCW?

14158 is the Lester #. This is a 50 amp, externally regulated, counter-clockwise (what you want for a lycoming) and has a 1/2" larger pulley.

Larry

Pardon my ignorance, but when viewed from behind, doesn't the alternator turn clockwise?

Also, does anyone have the Lester# for the internal regulated, 50-60 amp model?

Thanks!

Ben
 
Pardon my ignorance, but when viewed from behind, doesn't the alternator turn clockwise?

Also, does anyone have the Lester# for the internal regulated, 50-60 amp model?

Thanks!

Ben

Direction of rotation isn't a significant factor for our applications. The original 35a alternator (14184) that Vans sold for years was installed with no fan. A fan running in the wrong direction will work fine if a blast tube is directed to the rear of the alternator. Electrically, the alternator doesn't care which direction it turns.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but when viewed from behind, doesn't the alternator turn clockwise?

Also, does anyone have the Lester# for the internal regulated, 50-60 amp model?

Thanks!

Ben

That is true, but the standard description of alternator rotation is via the view from the front.

I never researched models with I/R, but I know they exist.

Larry
 
Direction of rotation isn't a significant factor for our applications. The original 35a alternator (14184) that Vans sold for years was installed with no fan. A fan running in the wrong direction will work fine if a blast tube is directed to the rear of the alternator. Electrically, the alternator doesn't care which direction it turns.

I chose to find one with a proper fan orientation to avoid the need for a blast tube.
 
The blast tube is probably a good idea regardless of alternator chosen.
Plus, blast tube is very easy and cheap to be install. Easier and leaves more cowl clearance than if you try to install with fan on. Time will tell regarding setup durability but others have demonstrated longevity with this setup.
 
I had an opportunity to do some destructive testing on a PP60A alternator. This wasn't a scientific experiment, so please take it for what it is worth.
With the alternator running, I applied heat directly to the regulator "brick" with a heat gun. Gently at first then full blast.
The regulator continued to do its job even after the potting material began to melt after about five minutes of direct exposure.

This isn't to say the regulator wasn't damaged or long term exposure to heat might not damage it. However, it didn't just magically "pop" and quit working even when exposed to an extreme amount of heat.

I think it is good practice to put a blast tube in, but I am not convinced the common failures are heat related.
 
I finally found the Honda Civic alternator on line. I tried NAPA, ORiley, Advance, and AutoZone, none of which had or could get this alternator. Found the Ford LTD voltage Regulator without a problem. For what it's worth, Vans no longer sells the boss mount kit. Fortunately for me they rummaged through the parts and found a boss mount, adjustment arm and the plug and some misc. hardware. Don't count on Vans supplying components for a do it yourself alternator installation. Don't count on finding a replacement alternator at your local auto parts store.
 
I finally found the Honda Civic alternator on line. I tried NAPA, ORiley, Advance, and AutoZone, none of which had or could get this alternator. Found the Ford LTD voltage Regulator without a problem. For what it's worth, Vans no longer sells the boss mount kit. Fortunately for me they rummaged through the parts and found a boss mount, adjustment arm and the plug and some misc. hardware. Don't count on Vans supplying components for a do it yourself alternator installation. Don't count on finding a replacement alternator at your local auto parts store.
Just saw your thread, Dave. Sorry to hear your troubles locating parts.

Van's is still listing the VA-151-2 boss mount and the 50-01205 plug on their website, though they don't appear to have the tensioner arm. Hopefully if they are out of any of the above they'll get more. The tensioner arm at least should be easy to fabricate ourselves.

Regarding the alternators, if you cast your search a bit wider in terms of model numbers you may or may not find the exact number in stock but you should be able to get a drop in replacement ordered in very shortly.

For example, I just checked today in store:
O'Reilly could get me the Ultima #R111274A, which is the equivalent of the 14129, the next day for $36.99 + $4.50 core.
Napa could get the NAPA Power Premium Plus #RAY 2136732, also the equivalent of the 14129/14184, the next day for $28.80 + $19.20 core.

Since I made the transition to the automotive alternator a few months ago it does look like it is a bit harder to find the 35A models in stock, but it should still be easy to get them overnight. Just for convenience, I just picked up a second to serve as a backup while my first gets rebuilt by a local alternator shop if it ever fails.

Anyway, hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Refreshing this three year old thread. The 35 amp alternator in my RV6, which has been working just fine for 23 years, decided it had enough. So, I am on the hunt for a replacement.

Have checked on line and the part numbers listed for Napa and O'Reilly in the previous post (probably 14129 instead of 14184) are active, pick up next day in store, so will most likely go that route.

Anyone been down this path recently with updated information?
 
Here's an excerpt for a post I made some time ago about replacing an alternator supplied by Vans:

"I decided to buy a re-manufactured alternator from Denso which is the new name for the original manufacturer. These alternators are not made new by them any more. The alternator I believe is the closest replacement is part # 210-0637 http://densoautoparts.com 1987 Suzuki Samurai. I hoped the best quality re-manufacture would come from the original manufacturer.

I did have to file 3mm off the bracket the alternator mounts to, but I believe this was probably due to inaccuracy in the alternator housing casting rather than a different spec.

I ground ran the engine yesterday and flew it today with no overvoltage issues at all. I am not sure if my logic was correct but the result seems to be good."

I have ~40 hours on the replacement alternator now and all looks good.
 
Is there a source for case mount(narrow deck) brackets? B&C seems to be out and I'm not sure who else makes them.

On that note the standard brackets more or less fit up to the alternator listed?
 
Back
Top