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The vans OSH booth

duckguy

I'm New Here
Guys I have to say after visiting the booth this and last year, this one in specific with my fiancee hoping it may light a fire under her to start a RV8 build that Vans really needs to work on it. For such a huge community and following that booth is lame city. Nothing going on, not super friendly folks and the same tired planes, with the exception of the new 14. I cant believe they don't have some exceptional builds in there to really get people excited. Heck there wasn't one taildragger in there. I spent my time looking at that incredible 8 over in the vans parking in the front row.
 
I have given up on the Vans tent. Most unfriendly people on the airport! Never have figured out what is really going on there.
 
Well, they are different, and in terms of marketing, sales and promotions they are not the overachiever bunch. Having said that, I have found them, one-on -one, to be personable, and honest. For me, as a builder, at each encounter they have been willing to help and provided adequate followup.

During their get together at the tent at SnF last year, Van himself came and sat down on a bench next to my wife and I. A low key, soft spoken guy, but his friendly unassuming style sure impressed my wife for the founder of such a successful company.

All in all, a pretty low pressure, but competent group. I think I'll keep them on my Christmas list.
 
not my experience, either. They've always been receptive to my questions...if they weren't swamped. I talked with Scott at Arlington in 2007....he remembered my name in 2008.

I sure Vans would allow any of you to take your exceptional build award winning RV and park it at the tent. Just remember those planes get poked at, crawled on, leaned on, stepped on, etc.
 
Want flash or longevity?

Yep, have known Van and the team since I built my RV-4 in 1980. Most unassuming bunch you will ever meet in aviation. Also the most ethical. I've seen lots of flashier booths and sales literature (even got caught up in the Prescott Pusher pizazz myself because I so badly needed a 4 place), but many of them aren't around. I predict Van's will be around a long time. :)

Vic
 
There was an awesome 10 parked there from Sunday to at least Wednesday built by a customer....

Van's bunch have never been known as the glitz and glamour cruise director types....

They do know how to design and produce some awesome kits at an affordable price however.

All of Van's planes are flown like crazy so they show the wear and tear.

The best examples of what Van's has to offer is just to the West of the tent. Most of em parked in HBP and HBC....:D
 
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I think the best sales people for Vans, are the people who make and/or fly Vans aircraft, especially VAF.

Seemes to be an effective approach. That and the 'free' test flight.

-Dave
 
That FREE test flight will cost you tens of thousands of dollars! Don't take one unless you can cough up a lot of hard earn ash. So don't let them kid you it ain't free.
 
Mixed feelings

I have never had a problem with their salespeople, and they have always answered my questions....but I totally agree that their setup is lacking...small, utilitarian....no more impressive than a card table with an umbrella over it..!..I suppose they are "riding on their reputation" (I love my 7A!)..I'm not a marketing guy, but I suspect a great deal of the sale would involve getting the spouse involved and excited about the build....and their current setup just doesn't cut it. Not even a TV monitor showing a loop of one of their aircraft flying over exotic places. Great airplanes..lousy marketing.
 
Yep, have known Van and the team since I built my RV-4 in 1980. Most unassuming bunch you will ever meet in aviation. Also the most ethical. I've seen lots of flashier booths and sales literature (even got caught up in the Prescott Pusher pizazz myself because I so badly needed a 4 place), but many of them aren't around. I predict Van's will be around a long time. :) Vic

We have an interesting cultural thing here, most of the American public expects to be "sold." Van and company are, for lack of a better term, old fashioned. Come up with a great product, sell it at a fair price, do what you promise, and you don't need a tent full of slick types "selling," just some knowledgable people to answer questions. My first experience in Van's tent, in 2004, was perfect. Only cost me $100K. :rolleyes:

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
Guys I have to say after visiting the booth this and last year, this one in specific with my fiancee hoping it may light a fire under her to start a RV8 build that Vans really needs to work on it. For such a huge community and following that booth is lame city. Nothing going on, not super friendly folks and the same tired planes, with the exception of the new 14. I cant believe they don't have some exceptional builds in there to really get people excited. Heck there wasn't one taildragger in there. I spent my time looking at that incredible 8 over in the vans parking in the front row.

It's already been said, but a lot of the reason those airplanes look the way they do is because of how they get treated when they are at the booth (we refer to them as playground equipment because that is how a lot of people treat them). Part of that is our own fault... because of making the airplanes so accessible. Visit some of the more friendly kit venders and you will likely find ropes around the airplane(s) and you have to survive an interrogation before they will consider letting you sit in it.

To be honest, with the things I have seen the public do to the company demo planes, I don't see why anyone would want to put there own airplane on display at the tent, unless they stood guard from dawn to dusk.

As far as glitzy display booths are concerned... My observation has always been that the companies with the glitzy displays are also the ones with the sky high price tags.
 
I sure Vans would allow any of you to take your exceptional build award winning RV and park it at the tent. Just remember those planes get poked at, crawled on, leaned on, stepped on, etc.

The day we arrived, Joe told us that the EAA folks had let them know that all the space behind Van's was available to park airplanes if they wished, and Joe invited us to park wither of out planes there. He then pointed out the kind of abuse the places can rake, and essentially said he wouldn't put Tsam there if it was his...

I've visited most all of the kit plane company booths this year, and the ones that have some of the top airplanes are all pretty low key. They are all friendly if you ask questions, but not pushy.
 
That's an interesting observation about the opportunity to market to the real decision makers (spouses - at least from the veto POV!). I remember waaaaaaay back in the late 70s or early 80s Beechcraft was starting "Aero Clubs" where you could (expensively) rent their planes after (expensively) joining and (expensively) paying monthly dues. My wife still (heatedly) recalls the sales guy saying to her "And look at this great lounge with TV for the ladies while the men are flying!" The purpose of a booth is marketing and, frankly, Vans could do a better job of it without being "salesly."
 
Vans booth

I stopped by too. The young lady at the counter was very helpful with my question but I was not asking about the models. I already took the expensive ride. :D
I did notice they were not actively selling. I suspect the product sells itself thanks in part to a huge community.
I did want very much to look at the RVs parked in the lot but decided not to after reading posts about owners upset about visitors touching their pride and joy. I promise I would have kept my hands behind my back! Maybe next year.
 
Hey Duckguy, maybe you need to look for a new fiance instead of a new airplane design. If you need to be sold, you are not ready to build an airplane and Vans is not going to talk you into it, they never have.

The marketing strategy may not be as flashy as the one that supported
Felix Baumgartners parachute jump from space but designing the best kit plane in the world and having more completed kit planes flying than all other experimentals combined speaks volumes for Vans Kit Planes.

Vans has an excellent sales force of 8288 happy customers/sales people,
who, after referring a new customer will receive a generous merchandise credit. I have done it twice and if you decide to buy a tail kit be sure to refer my name to Vans just don't tell your fiance about me.

If you want flash, glitz and schmoozing hang out at the Skoal Tobaco tent
maybe they are not in OSH but they will be at the Reno Air races:D
 
Was the Van's area like the Piper or Cessna areas, heck no and thank goodness or the cost of the kits would go up quite a bit. We both went for an expensive ride today (okay, we already spent the $$, this just confirmed we would be happy), and everyone in the booth answered any questions we had over the last few days. We may be different since we did a plans built previously and a quick build kit is a breeze in comparison, but I would rather the company money be spent wisely rather than on schmoozing. Compared to what Nat used to do for the Cozy space, the Vans area is really nice.
 
Guys I have to say after visiting the booth this and last year this one in specific with my fiancee hoping it may light a fire under her to start a RV8 build that Vans really needs to work on it.
Van has a booth? When did this happen? I thought he just had a field full of several hundred flying models as his display at OSH. That sold me on the RV and should make the spousal unit less apprehensive then a pretty model in short shorts handing out glitzy brochures.
 
There have been a couple of company folks over the years who seem like they've been asked the same question one too many times. Perhaps I'd be the same way if I had to staff the tent all week, but still it can be a little off-putting.

As far as everything else...in an interwebs world, superior products like the RVs, honestly advertised and solidly supported, tend to market themselves. Certainly worked for me, 'cause Vans has a lot of my money!
 
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Marketing and promotion costs money. Heck, for some companies that's the single biggest expenditure on their books. This money has to come from someplace. How much more would we want to pay for a Van's kit, to get a nicer booth and presence at Oshkosh?

I saw the other day that Van's will give you a $60 dollar credit for building a RV-14A. The time and effort necessary to pass along a $60 dollar credit for an aircraft costing 70+ thousands dollars is remarkable. The majority of companies wouldn't even have noticed and just made a little more profit.
 
I agree with both sides - yes, a very simple booth, but exactly what I like. Anyone happen to set foot in the Cirrus display???:eek: Truly beautiful airplanes, but good grief, just a different "crowd" than I'm comfortable with. I'm pretty sure the minute I stepped into the display, they sensed I didn't have 750k to spend on a GA airplane:D
 
I just finished my three day stint in the Vans aircraft marketing department sitting by my airplane (not Dick's) talking about it, the build process and life thereafter for many hours with anyone that was interested. The same as many others. Truly one of the best things about an RV, the company doesn't need to sell, because it really does, "just work".
I feel just a little dirty, but I can't grow my skills and interests without exploring other models/projects as well. Maybe another RV that goes together faster and easier isn't necesserarily better for all. I'm certain the business analysis proves me wrong.
 
Ok

I'm trying to be positive here and probably will re-write this a few times before I submit it - so here goes.

About 15 years ago, I was an aspiring student pilot and 'knew' that I wanted to build a Glass Star. Went to the local EAA meeting and found out that most of those who were building were building Van's aircraft. I felt alone in a crowd but decided to look into the Van's thing. After educating myself I wanted to build a 9A. I educated myself, no one sold me on Van's.

Went to a Homecoming as it sounded like a way to further educate myself and maybe meet some nice people. I was amazed by all of the varieties of Van's aircraft. Again, felt alone in a crowd (no airplane) and vowed not to attend another Homecoming without an RV. The Homecoming is not a sales event - just friends sharing the love of owning and flying an RV. Van's had handouts available on a card table there - that was it but if you had questions, there were friendly but busy people there to answer your question. Took a 80K ride - the real sales pitch!

Now to OSH - a few, if not quite a few, attend airshows, etc., to try to educate themselves on the merits of the various kit aircraft. They are there to learn.

So, if you went to the Van's tent hoping to see videos of Van's aircraft flying or maybe stationary displays of the Van's aircraft or kit parts, you may have been disappointed. And, if you didn't know what to ask the very knowledgeable persons that Van's has there to answer questions, you were disappointed.

I didn't go to OSH and see the tent as described by the OP, but I can't see how it would hurt (or cost) Van's much to show videos of say an RV-7 doing aerobatics, an RV-12 being flown leisurely by a grey haired couple (LSA you know!), and a couple with children flying an RV-10. And maybe a video about the new RV-14! I'll bet that these short videos would interest and/or excite a wide range of pilots, want to be pilots, and older people who could get back into the flying game with a nice RV-12. Couldn't hurt to 'sell' a little could it? Maybe Van's did the above, as I said, I'm not at OSH. Just my 5 cents worth
 
I didn't go to OSH and see the tent as described by the OP, but I can't see how it would hurt (or cost) Van's much to show videos of say an RV-7 doing aerobatics, an RV-12 being flown leisurely by a grey haired couple (LSA you know!), and a couple with children flying an RV-10. And maybe a video about the new RV-14! I'll bet that these short videos would interest and/or excite a wide range of pilots, want to be pilots, and older people who could get back into the flying game with a nice RV-12. Couldn't hurt to 'sell' a little could it? Maybe Van's did the above, as I said, I'm not at OSH. Just my 5 cents worth

Ed,
In years past (for as long as I can remember) there has been a copy of the Van's aircraft video running. Last year someone even put a wide screen TV up on the wall to show the new RV-14 video.
Maybe the decision was made to not do so this year for some reason. I can understand why... it is often hard to hear the audio. Turn it up enough to hear it and then no one can talk across the counter.
 
I understand about the saving of marketing money, but Vans is the king of Osh, just look at the tie downs. Vans should have a tent the size of Cirrus'. They could spread their models out a little, have this year' premier model on display inside, and provide a great place where builders can congregate and tell stories. The customers would probably be more excited to answer questions to potential buyers than the actual staff. Heck, they could set up smaller booths inside or outside the periphery of the tent and allow all the 3rd party venders that sell Vans stuff to set up their own displays. Those vendors could help spread the costs out.

When Vans' tent looks as simple as the one they currently have, it just gives a vibe of second class compared to the certified guys, and that shouldn't be.

Just my opinion of course.
 
if it ain't broke, don't fix it.:D

I think they're doing something right, look at the completion rate and waiting period for most kits. They ship them as fast as they can package them....in a downturn economy!
 
Sales 101

I've not yet been to OSH, or have seen or interacted with the Van's crew. However, the best sales approach I've seen is to actually fly in one of the beasties (after flying in a Cessna or Piper spam-can) and realize what a great plane this is. I'm an engineer, and I appreciate the performance, without the glitz. It's refreshing that it's not a hard sell, and I'm very happy with what I think I'm building. A bunch of you have already have showed off the "grin" Greatest marketing ploy ever. My first climb to altitude, roll, and wingover in a -7A convinced me that this is a special plane. Can't wait till my baby comes alive (tho I've just started on the wings now...)
 
Van's display

When Van's booth starts looking like the Cirrus / Beechcraft booths then the parts prices will undoubtedly follow. Just purchased a bracket for mix and throttle cables from Van's, under $20 try that for a Beechcraft, lucky if its under $400.
I found the personal at the display were the same low key not pushy helpful folks as always.
The pretty young lady in the booth was not there just for "eye candy" that was actually Ken Kruger's daughter! Great young lady who grew up with the Van's ethic.
Van please don't change a thing!
 
Manning (and womaning) that tent has got to get old especially after doing it for so many years. On the other hand my visit to the factory was VERY good. I agree that the finished fleet and their builders/pilots sells the product.

If you want feel good fuzzies go to the factory. My wife (then Fiance) and I went to Portland for a vacation/wine tour with a planned stop at Vans. We stopped by the Factory, took a ride in the -10, checked out the Spruce Goose then on to the vineyards. Want to sway your lady make this a trip. But remember what can be swayed one way can be swayed the other!:p
 
The OP (duckguy) complains that
For such a huge community and following that booth is lame city. Nothing going on, not super friendly folks and the same tired planes, with the exception of the new 14.

The Van's booth has been a pretty busy place this week. Lots of potential builders/friends as well as old. I would guess if it was that "lame" we wouldn't see too many folks. Yet nobody eats at an empty restaurant as they say... :rolleyes: Only hundreds continue to stop by daily...

Yup, the same old factory demonstrators continue to soldier on, proving their durability after tens of thousands of air miles and several hundred people per show (many of them very unkind to the equipment) climb in and out to try on what might become their next dream. For these aircraft to endure this treatment and continue to look and run as well as they do says a lot about the product line as well as the staff/technicians/pilots at Van's that maintains them. That, my friend, is your marketing point to communicate to your spouse. A very well built, durable product that will put up with years of wear and tear. Never mind the smoke an mirrors...

One poster complains
Not even a TV monitor showing a loop of one of their aircraft flying over exotic places. Great airplanes..lousy marketing.
I'm not sure what tent they were looking in, but there has been a 32" flat screen with the RV-14 teaser video and a new compilation video playing continuously all week, including at the Van's banquet. In fact I almost have it memorized by now.:rolleyes:

If Vans were to dump $50,000 into a glitzy tent and marketing swag, who do you think pays that bill? What does that do to the affordability of the product? Does it really make the product perform any better? Does it make anyone feel more warm and fuzzy? Think about it... Van's has never been in the immediate gratification business. We have some very intelligent and savvy customers out there who know a great product, and a company founder who knows how to bring that product to market in a very efficient way. Kind of like the 'Total Performance' thing that you keep hearing about...

For those that would rather have the 'Total Marketing' experience, please visit the Icon tent, and ask about a demo ride...:rolleyes:

Just my $.02 worth...
 
I have no problem with lack of glitz. My objections came when for several years I stood and tried to get one simple quick question answered, and had to stand there for a long time while the reps droned on with what seemed like forever with someone who apparently had indicated they were about to buy. I finally decided after a half hour that it was going to go to infinity and left. Maybe more help would do it, maybe the instructions to hand out a brochure and go to the next person waiting would work.
 
Don't mind him Joe. Apparently he can't talk his girlfriend into allowing an airplane.

News flash; it's gonna take more than a fancy tent ;)

That's kinda a low-blow. Agree or not he's just expressing his opinion. Constructive criticism on Van's tent is not RV blasfamy.

It's not unreasonable to think Vans could increase the experience of their OSH display without spending tens of thousands. They have probably 250 airplanes fly in. Providing a "home base" for all those owners would be pretty cool. All they would need is a little bigger tent and some hi-top tables and chairs. This would allow Vans maintain the grass roots persona that everyone likes.

It would be cool if they had a couple of those cockpit cutouts similar to Sonex. Then people can walk all over those and beat them up, while leaving the demonstrators alone.
 
VANS BOOTH

Great response Mr.Joe Blank. i think the silent majority will agree.
if it aint broke dont fix it. and dont spend $$$ on it for no payback, but i think Vans already knows this.

i guess i picked the right lady - mine doesnt even complain about parking her car in the driveway for the last 3 years while my RV7 occupies the garage.

Thanx VANS.
 
Think what you will about wife/girlfriend approval, but if you're attached and want to stay that way it's a necessary part of building. I put a lot of value on my flying and on the RV, but I put a whole lot more value on the relationship I have built with my first love over the last 30-odd years. She's given up a lot to stay with me over the years, I'm not about to fall victim to AIDS (Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome).

Aluminum won't keep you warm at night.

That said, I hope to see the Van's tent next year and see what all the fuss is about. :)
 
our 02 cents

I say "our" because my wife is 100 percent committed to the build which without that I could not build. What convinced her was demo ride with Joe. Factory tour and demo flight should almost be mandatory before buying.

Joe was at Oshkosh so it is impossible to have unfriendly atmosphere in Vans tent. Joe is one of the best and have great respect for him.

Lastly, only met Vans once but if our business was as as successful as his , we should use his buisiness practices . It is clear case of a entrepreneur, followed by well defined and organized business practices. Vans knows that every dollar counts and knows what us as customers expect, therefore a low profile image at shows = savings to us. I personally think Vans could be absent and sales would continue as the product sells itself. Builders and Rv pilots are Vans sales force..... Vans as a company is really taking orders and supporting their product which is critical to flying RVs and us builders.
 
Is it just possible that the big money involvement of Cessna and Beechcraft et al have skewed the entire preception of what Airventure is now versus what it was? At least the founders of Cirrus started at the convention by displaying a "homebuilt" Cirrus.

Over the years of the convention, Van's tent and the other manufacturers of aircraft kits have essentially remained in the same location. Is hasn't been that many years ago that Cessna and Beechcraft were just down the lane from Vans with about the same size space and about the same number of planes to look at.

Maybe EAA could acknowledge the success of the manufacturers of aircraft kits, Vans, Lancair, Glasair, Zenith, Sonex and others, and their role in building EAA by giving them a more prominent location at Airventure, like along Celebration Way where Cessna was this year and not demand a king's ransom for the display booth space. Just encourage the kitplane vendors to continue with their tried and true product presentation techniques. Then Vans could use their booth presentation style, which I don't have a problem with, to showcase why over 400 RVs had registered on the field, according to Jeff Point at the Vans banquet on Tuesday night.

Mike
 
Over the years of the convention, Van's tent and the other manufacturers of aircraft kits have essentially remained in the same location. Is hasn't been that many years ago that Cessna and Beechcraft were just down the lane from Vans with about the same size space and about the same number of planes to look at.

Maybe EAA could acknowledge the success of the manufacturers of aircraft kits, Vans, Lancair, Glasair, Zenith, Sonex and others, and their role in building EAA by giving them a more prominent location at Airventure, like along Celebration Way where Cessna was this year and not demand a king's ransom for the display booth space. Just encourage the kitplane vendors to continue with their tried and true product presentation techniques. Then Vans could use their booth presentation style, which I don't have a problem with, to showcase why over 400 RVs had registered on the field, according to Jeff Point at the Vans banquet on Tuesday night.

Mike

Actually, in years past EAA tried to entice all outdoor vendors to move over near the 4 commercial vendor buildings. Many of the big names made the move (some are no longer in business). Vans has resisted, instead preferring to stay out amongst the airplanes customers have built. Many of the other vendors seem to have followed that lead, but the vendor count in that area has continued to shrink, so the day is probably coming when EAA will force everyone out of that area
 
What's that saying - opinions are like fundamental orifices, everyone has one.
Having said that, here's mine.
1 Criticism of Vans is and should be entirely OK.
2 Vans should, and probably does, take critisism as valuable so as to allow them to take a fresh look at something - we often don't see an issue until it is pointed out.
3 Vans have been around long enough to know that getting complacent about costs is a short road to oblivion. Adding to overheads in good times can hurt a lot when an economy hits a bump, so I applaud Vans (both the man and the company) for being careful with resources and watching expenditure on various ongoing costs.

A cautious, in business terms possibly old fashioned company, that is still there in 100 years, is what I would be happy to see (not that I could live that long).
John
 
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The OP (duckguy) complains that

The Van's booth has been a pretty busy place this week. Lots of potential builders/friends as well as old. I would guess if it was that "lame" we wouldn't see too many folks. Yet nobody eats at an empty restaurant as they say... :rolleyes: Only hundreds continue to stop by daily...

Yup, the same old factory demonstrators continue to soldier on, proving their durability after tens of thousands of air miles and several hundred people per show (many of them very unkind to the equipment) climb in and out to try on what might become their next dream. For these aircraft to endure this treatment and continue to look and run as well as they do says a lot about the product line as well as the staff/technicians/pilots at Van's that maintains them. That, my friend, is your marketing point to communicate to your spouse. A very well built, durable product that will put up with years of wear and tear. Never mind the smoke an mirrors...

One poster complains I'm not sure what tent they were looking in, but there has been a 32" flat screen with the RV-14 teaser video and a new compilation video playing continuously all week, including at the Van's banquet. In fact I almost have it memorized by now.:rolleyes:

If Vans were to dump $50,000 into a glitzy tent and marketing swag, who do you think pays that bill? What does that do to the affordability of the product? Does it really make the product perform any better? Does it make anyone feel more warm and fuzzy? Think about it... Van's has never been in the immediate gratification business. We have some very intelligent and savvy customers out there who know a great product, and a company founder who knows how to bring that product to market in a very efficient way. Kind of like the 'Total Performance' thing that you keep hearing about...

For those that would rather have the 'Total Marketing' experience, please visit the Icon tent, and ask about a demo ride...:rolleyes:

Just my $.02 worth...

Well said Joe! Nuff said!
 
It does not need to be expensive and i somewhat agree with the OP.

all my exchanges with van's over the years have been much better than at the OSH tent/booth.

some of the best were a factory tour/demo ride by ken scott at aurora and talking to ken krueger / van himself several times at aero friedrichshafen, where they aren't quite the celebrities ((yet) ;-) in a calm and no-time-pressure-setting. also all the ordering / shipping over the years went awesome.

the low down was last year (2012) at the osh booth wanting to have a detailed look at the new RV-14 and asking a few questions. i was treated downright rude, maybe because of my age not deemed a potential "customer" or someone having a bad day, whatever.

bernie
 
You must might be on to something there. I am just about to turn 76, and riding up on a battery powered cart may well say to them "don't waste time on this old fart"
 
Van's tent

I dropped by the Van's tent several times this week, and had a great time talking to Gus, Rian, and Mike.

Since I had on my VAF hat most of the week, I got a lot of random people asking me about RVs, the company and if they should build one or a sonex/kitfox/etc. I told them to take a ride in one, talk to builders in their area, visit the factory, and count aircraft on the field.

What Van's is doing is clearly working, and if it ain't broke...
 
This is a complicated subject that isn't as easy as it seems. I completely understand what the OP and others are saying, but bear with me for a minute here while I play devils advocate. Let's look at a few of the big flashy marketing centric tents in both recent and past years:

1) Eclipse Jet - Had huge tents, lots of fancy marketing. Burned through $150M+....bankrupt. Sold less airplanes in their entire life than Van's does in one year.
2) Cirrus - huge tents, lots of marketing materials, had their own financial squeeze....sold to the Chinese. Incidentally, sold less airplanes last year than Van's did.
3) Teledyne Continental - big tents, lots of marketing. Sold to the Chinese.
4) Beechcraft - big tents, lots of marketing. Bankrupt. Less single pistons delivered in each of the last few years than Van's has registered in months.
5) Mooney - big tents, lots of marketing. Bankrupt multiple times, sold less airplanes in the last number of years combined than Vans had registered last year.
6) Piper - Bankrupt a couple of times. Sold WAY less airplanes in the past few years than Vans.
7) Cessna - big tents, lots of marketing. Sold less single piston airplanes each year the past several years (including their LSA's) than Vans did.
8) Icon - REALLY big budget for marketing, sales, etc.. Raised over $100M in funding, yet have managed to deliver exactly ZERO airplanes.
9) Epic Aircraft - lots of marketing, big display. Bankrupt - sold partly to the Chinese.
10) Diamond Aircraft - big tents, nice marketing. They have their own financial issues, still have never sold as many planes as Vans.
11) Columbia Aircraft - big displays, lots of marketing. Bankrupt. Never delivered as many planes in a year as Vans.
12) Adam Aircraft - big tent with lots of marketing. Bankrupt.
13) Stoddard Hamilton (Glasair) - pretty nice displays some years. Bankrupt and on their third (Chinese) owner in not too many years.
14) Lancair - also some pretty impressive displays over the years. Now on their 3rd owner in not too many years.
15) Skystar - spent a lot of money on marketing for a few years...Bankrupt.
16) Europa - spent a lot on marketing for a couple years...went Bankrupt.
17) Wheeler - spent a good amount on marketing for a year or so....went Bankrupt.
18) OMF/Symphony Aircraft - lots of $$'s spent...Bankrupt (twice).
19) Rotorway - some years spent lots of money...Bankrupt.
20) ....and the Grandaddy of them all - no details needed. BEDE

I guess in the end my point with the above list (which could go on and on) doesn't necessarily show a direct link between expending money on marketing equating to success and sales.

I am someone who also has a pretty Spartan/bare bones booth (following Van's lead). It might sound easy just to "spend a little bit more money" to make things nicer, but if you knew how much it already costs just to do it as miserly as we do; then the added cost is difficult to justify. Sure it might sound like only a few extra dollars per kit, but it's likely it would be much more than that. If that could be shown to have a direct result on sales or profit then I'd be all for it, but if it's immeasurable then it would be difficult to justify.

I also know the people there do the best they can all week. It's a VERY loooong week to work every day, and I think any of us that do that show who are really busy can come across the wrong way sometimes (I know I do occasionally), we always have much more time outside of the show than during the show so sometimes we all can come across a little short or impatient (or zombie like at the end of the week)! :)

Lastly, it's probably similar in that of us lacking tons of outside investment are all very careful with our expenditures. Anyway, I can see both sides of this as one who is on both sides, but personally I think those guys have done a pretty darned good job given what the competitive landscape looks like (littered with failures for years and years).

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein
 
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I stopped by thier booth at Sun'n'Fun. Standoff-ish, not quite rude but not welcoming by any measure. Good thing they sell a good product.
 
I stopped by thier booth at Sun'n'Fun. Standoff-ish, not quite rude but not welcoming by any measure. Good thing they sell a good product.

I was not going to contribute to this post, but that is exactly the impression I got when I was in the SnF booth this year. I have an RV-4 and was interested in talking to someone about upgrades (prop, fairings, etc.) but could not get someone to notice me. I have to admit it WAS busy at the booth, but there was no one that seemed to have the responsibility of greeting people. I stood waiting for about 10 minutes then left....
 
Guys I have to say after visiting the booth this and last year, this one in specific with my fiancee hoping it may light a fire under her to start a RV8 build that Vans really needs to work on it. For such a huge community and following that booth is lame city. Nothing going on, not super friendly folks and the same tired planes, with the exception of the new 14. I cant believe they don't have some exceptional builds in there to really get people excited. Heck there wasn't one taildragger in there. I spent my time looking at that incredible 8 over in the vans parking in the front row.

I can't believe the tone of this thread.

What is it exactly that could be better about Van's Aircraft other than the size of the display tent at Oshkosh? There is no need for aircraft other than the factory work horses, the flight line is full of airplanes to look at.

If you walk in and ask an intelligent question, you will get an intelligent answer. If you ask about hanging a IO720 on a RV-9, or why isn't there a high wing airplane, you will get brushed off. Or as I was told some years ago about hanging a 0360 on the 9, have at it, if you prefer to fly around a partial throttle (so as to not exceed the design limits of the airplane). Pretty straight forward answer coming from the boss himself - I switched to the 7 as the engine was on hand. If you hang an auto engine on one of their airplanes, do not expect hugs and kisses. It's only human nature.

RV's are great airplanes for the money, go for it and stop trying to change the way they do business. Their presence at OSH may not even be necessary from a marketing point of view. Be glad they take the time to show up at all. They probably would rather be back in Oregon, sleeping in their own beds. :)
 
Well obviously I have struck a cord, especially with the frugal folk. First off let me say I respect all of your opinions, your airplanes whatever caliber they may be and the effort you took to even voice your opinion here. Now with that said let me say a few more words. My issues in a more specific way is this:

1. The standoffishness and inability to grab someones attention. This was mentioned by many others in this thread so obviously others are feeling a little lack of love here. It does not have to be Icon or Cirrus but a warm reception is nice. I also am very interested in building a legend cub kit and the booth they had was 2 planes, (current, clean, and well presented) and two very friendly people on folding chairs, one of whom was the owner that welcomed us, answered questions, invited us to the factory and spoke at very long length about it all with us and remembered our names in later days as we stopped back.

2. I understand that the planes they have have been abused and used but they are showing their age both in condition and modernness of panels and avionics, It just doesn't excite or represent the community all that well or the amazing planes many of you build. Heck have one or two that are roped for viewing only that are truly one of a kind builds to show people whats possible. I loved the idea of a vans camp with their vendors, builders etc. I understand the community is huge but EAA is too and the best foot forward just aint there.

3. My girlfriend is a CFII/MEII with a background in new Cessna sales, has over 2000 hours of Corvalis time, and now flies the Citations and Phenom's. She is absolutely in love with the cub notion and is excited to help build it and thought many of the RV's displayed around were awesome but was turned off by the booths ratty appearance and the staff in it. She sells multi million dollar planes to folks that expect a mile, she was looking for a smile and didn't get it.


Dont worry guys, If vans replaced the 20 year old banner that proudly announces their presence at the world greatest gathering i don't think the kit costs would rise to much.
 
I think many/most amongs Van's fans would consider being described as "frugal" to be a complement. If your girlfriend expects to be treated like she sees her Citation/Phenom/whatever clients treated, then homebuilding is probably not for the two of you.

Really, however, Van's approach to marketing must be graded on how it is working for them. Did you see homebuilt parking & homebuilt camping? Obviously they are doing something right - perhaps you and your girlfriend might take the opportunity to learn something about business from your experience.
 
Obviously chief you didn't read my post carefully and the her clients expect a mile and we only expected a smile and didn't get it. I also don't want to be a dick here but yes I did see the homebuilt camping and it was very full and certainly impressive, now did you see a suite at the Hilton on the field, The VIP dinners and after parties, the fully catered aviators club and hospitality areas that I did? I doubt it, so I would watch your tone about knowledge of business.
 
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