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RV-10 Pilot door lost in flight

Janekom

Well Known Member
Patron
This happened to a friend yesterday on his RV10 still in test phase. He reported to me that as it was hot he did not latch the door fully while taxing to the holding point. Only the Vans safety latch was holding the door.

If this sounds bit strange - he did not install the stainless steel plate in the door frame as per instructions so the door was not flush with only the safety latch engaged.

He also did not have an alarm system installed. He ordered one and planned to install in shortly.

He forgot to fully close the door and after levelling off at 8500 the door flew open. Id went up about half way, did about four oscillations just out of reach and then flew off.

He lost his glasses and headset. The headset was found in the back after landing. He made a safe descend and landed. The door did not damage anything on the empennage.

They are going to look for the door today using his other aircraft.

Thank God it ended safely and let us all learn from this.
 
I can't believe it.

Jan, this borders on ridiculous!

Does he not read this forum and the most recent discussion regarding the RV-10 door loss?

No checklist? Here's a simple one, easily memorized.
CIGAR TIP

C Controls..free and moving correctly.
I Instruments..altimeter set and so on.
G Gas..amount and proper tank selected..fuel pump on?
A Altimeter again
R Runup..mags check, prop cycled.
T Trim set for takeoff (Very important in a -10).
I INTERIOR, to include doors, seatbelts and windows.
P Prop..takeoff position.

Best,
 
Pierre - you are right but we all make mistakes so please do not be too critical. I have posted this as a reminder of just that - we all make mistakes so please be careful. The other point I wanted to make is that the standard safety latch clearly will not hold the door.

Pat - to clarify, he took off from about 4000ft AMSL and it came of at 8500ft AMSL.
 
C Controls..free and moving correctly.
I Instruments..altimeter set and so on.
G Gas..amount and proper tank selected..fuel pump on?
A Altimeter again
R Runup..mags check, prop cycled.
T Trim set for takeoff (Very important in a -10).
I INTERIOR, to include doors, seatbelts and windows.
P Prop..takeoff position.
The doors kind of get "lost" in that CIGARTIP:rolleyes:

How about a new word specifically for the RV-10

D: Do check The doors
O: Oh, and do check the door closed lights are off.
O: Or at least check visually that the doors are closed.
R: Remember all that.

I am glad he made it back without further damage and I am sure he'll be back in the air soon with a new check list and a door closed light.
 
If this sounds bit strange - he did not install the stainless steel plate in the door frame as per instructions so the door was not flush with only the safety latch engaged.

The other point I wanted to make is that the standard safety latch clearly will not hold the door.

Do we really know this?
You also posted that he didn't install the safety latch per the instructions!
 
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Get the hammer out and pound yourself in the head until you can ensure you will check the doors at Run-up.
The design can't work if you never give it a chance.
I read theses stories over and over etching it in my brain.... check the doors.
 
I want to build an RV-10, but all of the door accidents are very disconcerting.

Improved latches and procedures are only a band-aid. There is no excuse for the design flaw that causes an unlatched door to depart the airplane. Look at gear-up landing statistics - we will never get pilots to stop missing things like this, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm incapable of a mistake.

What is it going to take for Van's to redesign the RV-10 doors?
 
I'm not sure what this means...

"If this sounds bit strange - he did not install the stainless steel plate in the door frame as per instructions so the door was not flush with only the safety latch engaged."

Can anybody help me understand this? In regards to the stainless steel plate..
 
Of course, this topic has been beaten to death, but since we're talking about checklists, it's important to note that you need doors on your "pulling onto the runway" checklist. I have checking doors and pins on both my before engine start and before takeoff lists, but there have been several times I've opened the door while ready to go and waiting for landing traffic on a hot day.

Also, my rule when I open the door after the engine is started is that I don't let go of the handle until it's closed, latched, and the pins verified.

-Rob
 
I want to build an RV-10, but all of the door accidents are very disconcerting.

Improved latches and procedures are only a band-aid. There is no excuse for the design flaw that causes an unlatched door to depart the airplane. Look at gear-up landing statistics - we will never get pilots to stop missing things like this, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm incapable of a mistake.

What is it going to take for Van's to redesign the RV-10 doors?

Adam, I wouldn't let this influence your decision. There are hundreds of flying RV10s that have never had this problem. It's a bit akin to retractable landing gear, if you forget to put the gear down, it's not a design flaw. Every plane I've ever flown it's been important to make sure the doors are closed.

If you wanted an door design that isn't gullwing you are certainly free to design your own cabin canopy - it's an experimental plane. But I think you will find that if you are a safe pilot, the chances of this happening to you are slim.
 
I want to build an RV-10, but all of the door accidents are very disconcerting.

Improved latches and procedures are only a band-aid. There is no excuse for the design flaw that causes an unlatched door to depart the airplane. Look at gear-up landing statistics - we will never get pilots to stop missing things like this, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm incapable of a mistake.

What is it going to take for Van's to redesign the RV-10 doors?

Using your comment as an example, it shows that there is more than one way to look at it.
Since you mention that even with all of the safety horns, check lists, etc. that retractable gear aircraft have, pilots still land gear up... does that mean that all retractable gear aircraft should be redesigned to fixed gear (making it impossible to land gear up), since we know people are not perfect?

A different perspective looking at just the latest two door incidents....

Neither had the kit supplied latch warning system installed.

You are right... none of us is perfect. Because of that, I think we can all agree that using every possible means of catching our errors is a good idea. I.E., indicator systems, check lists, etc.
Does any of us think that if the pilots in these last two incidents had an indicator system that evaluated whether both latch pins were fully engaged, and they were using a check list that directed them to confirm the indicators, that they would have had a door loss incident? I suppose it is still possible, but an extremely remote one in my opinion.
 
I want to build an RV-10, but all of the door accidents are very disconcerting.

Improved latches and procedures are only a band-aid. There is no excuse for the design flaw that causes an unlatched door to depart the airplane. Look at gear-up landing statistics - we will never get pilots to stop missing things like this, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm incapable of a mistake.

What is it going to take for Van's to redesign the RV-10 doors?

Cabin doors are a trade-off and nothing is fool-proof. "It is impossible to design something fool-proof because fools are so ingenious." That's not the exact quote but you get the idea. My own testing of my doors as I build them leads me to believe they will be fine as long as I am reasonably careful to operate them properly. But if I fail to latch them, they will certainly depart; I, too, am amazed that the pilot got as high as he did before that happened.

I got my multi-engine training in a Beechcraft Duchess. This commercially built and certificated design had problems (probably not the design as much as the age of the aircraft) with keeping the door latched. Per checklist, not only were we supposed to check the doors before entering the runway but also, in the event a door unlatched during takeoff, were to perform an emergency stop just as if an engine had failed. There were similar requirements should the door open in flight. Unlikely? It was difficult to get the %^&@! things to latch properly and we often found them unsecured at the runway check. When I took the checkride, the examiner pulled mixture on an engine, I stopped, he restored the engine and, sure enough, my door opened when I restored power. The examiner was disgusted that we had to taxi back but at least I had properly responded to a real emergency. And the two points I am making is that no door design is immune (we also hear about other RV models opening, though the canopy doesn't depart) and that we, as PIC, are responsible for both securing the doors and reacting properly when something goes wrong.

I also want to echo the sentiment that a handful of incidents amongst the many flying -10s does not worry me. Especially as some of those flying aircraft see a lot of use and have no problem. My own experience with the door and how little flex there is in it (at least as I've built mine), leads me to suspect that these incidents may be a combination of poor bonding of the door halves and pilot complacency. Perhaps I'll change my mind once I'm operating my own -10 but for now I'm pressing on.
 
I want to build an RV-10, but all of the door accidents are very disconcerting.

Improved latches and procedures are only a band-aid. There is no excuse for the design flaw that causes an unlatched door to depart the airplane. Look at gear-up landing statistics - we will never get pilots to stop missing things like this, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm incapable of a mistake.

What is it going to take for Van's to redesign the RV-10 doors?

Adam, I wouldn't let this influence your decision. There are hundreds of flying RV10s that have never had this problem. It's a bit akin to retractable landing gear, if you forget to put the gear down, it's not a design flaw. Every plane I've ever flown it's been important to make sure the doors are closed.

Adding to what CharlieWaffles said, this situation is not limited to the RV-10 aircraft. This happens to other aircraft with "Gull Wing" type doors like the Cirrus, the KIS4 and others. With the KIS4 line, we modified the Hendricks door latch with a third strike plate that pins the door closed against the fuselage and a spring that keeps vibrations from loosening the latch due to normal flexing during takeoff.

We drill a small hole where the spring will attach:
LatchHandle2-NewHole_zps01f25244.jpg


We attach a spring from the latch to the fuselage. This keeps vibrations from loosening the latch, especially during takeoff. You can see the 3rd strike plate in the center of the latch:
LatchHandle3-NormalPosition_zps33cf95d3.jpg


The latch in the open position. You can clearly see the 3rd strike plate in the center of the latch that pins the door firmly against the fuselage:
LatchHandle4-HeldOpen_zps3685d871.jpg


With the 3rd latch if the door isn't properly closed, the latch will not engage at all. If the door closes and latches, even if you don't fully engage the other pins, the door will not open without a significant pull force on the handle by the pilot. I have experience with a door opening in flight and this modification has worked for me.

:cool:
 
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This happens to other aircraft with "Gull Wing" type doors like the Cirrus, the KIS4 and others.

Just to clarify, this is not a problem with Cirrus doors. the Cirrus does not have "gull wing" doors (they hinge at the front) and while some versions have had issues with getting the doors properly latched, there is no problem flying a Cirrus with the door open, except for wind noise. I've had doors open in a Cirrus, C-150, Baron, PA-24, and a Navion Rangemaster that I can recall. As airplanes age, the lock mechanism get tired and doors can be difficult to latch properly, or even open after being latched. All of the designs above tolerate that more or less gracefully, with the exception that (with the exception of strut-braced Cessnas) I don't think I've ever been able to shut a door in flight after it opened.
 
The Cirrus does not have "gull wing" doors (they hinge at the front) and while some versions have had issues with getting the doors properly latched, there is no problem flying a Cirrus with the door open, except for wind noise.

I said the Cirrus has Gull wing TYPE doors. They swing forward and up, not just forward.

Adding to what CharlieWaffles said, this situation is not limited to the RV-10 aircraft. This happens to other aircraft with "Gull Wing" type doors like the Cirrus, the KIS4 and others.

AND some have had their doors open in flight.
:cool:
 
Doors

The Corvalis or Cessna 400 had/has gullwing type doors too. Even the Cirrus with open doors that don't fly off has had a lot of problems with doors coming open and pilots crashing the plane from distraction.

BTW I love:

D
O
O
R

Got a good laugh out of that one.

Making the door close easier doesn't help if the pilot forgets to CLOSE the door!
 
CIGARS and Smoking will kill you

I have flown with a lot of our customers and nothing annoys me more than ?CIGARS?. It has been my experience that memorized check list are almost worthless. I am continually amazed at how many pilots don?t use a written check list. I frequently catch pilots using ?CIGARS? forgetting something (ie.. strobes, transponder). There are a number of accidents that would not have happened if only the pilot had used a written check list.

The EFIS in my plane has an interactive check list that is convenient and simple to use.

I can honestly say that in over 1800 hours of flying I have never taken off without using a written check list. When I fly my kids? Cessna 140 and cannot find the check list I will shut the engine down and find it before I leave the ground.

Here is a link to the Checklist and RV-10 door warning features of the AF-5000 EFIS

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=807035#post807035

Rob Hickman
N402RH RV-10
Advanced Flight Systems Inc.
 
Amen to Rob!

I just soloed my son in the Kitfox, as some of you are aware. It, and my RV-10, have Rob's AFS systems in them and I assure you the checklists are used. :) I actually had to get him to read them out loud and call complete for each item, but they are used. Using them leaves nothing to memory or mnemonics, especially when distractions might occur.
Those here who are airline pilots can relate to this: there are many items on checklists today in the airline cockpits that you can actually reference back to a known accident. It is a fact that the proper use of checklists can prevent similar accidents from being repeated.

Doors closed and locked? CHECK. :)

Vic
 
The Corvalis or Cessna 400 had/has gullwing type doors too. Even the Cirrus with open doors that don't fly off has had a lot of problems with doors coming open and pilots crashing the plane from distraction.

BTW I love:

D
O
O
R

Got a good laugh out of that one.

Making the door close easier doesn't help if the pilot forgets to CLOSE the door!

There was a fatal Cirrus crash in Phoenix in 2010, where the pilot was returning to the airport to close a door. (Disturbingly, he and I shared the same name, but are unrelated as far as I know).

There was also one incident where a Cirrus was stalled with an open door, the door opened wide during the stall and the airplane entered (and recovered from) a spin. (Before somebody jumps in, the Cirrus SR2x has been spin tested and has conventional spin recovery. It was necessary for European certification, although the FAA let them skip spin testing because of the BRS chute which is an "alternate means" of recovery).

I'm not sure if that qualifies as "a lot of problems with doors coming open and pilots crashing"

Most non-pressurized GA airplanes that I'm aware of have had doors or canopies that can come open in flight. Certainly the tip-up side-by side RVs (6,7,9,12) have had their share. With a few exceptions (RV-10, Diamond DA-20 come to mind) it's a non critical event, and the airplane can be landed safely without undue hazard.

The Cirrus has a pretty average safety record for GA. It didn't meet the expectation of exceptional safety that was hoped for in the beginning, but it's also not the deathtrap that mythology suggests. Certainly it doesn't have any particular problem with doors, except for latches that can be hard sometimes to operate.
 
Bottom line - build as per plans and do your checks - the RV10 is so much of an AC that the so called door problems re not supposed to put you off :)
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Van's needs to fix the door design. Engineers make things idiot proof to the best of their ability. Doors are easy to design where they are not a threat to the flight's safety. My preference would be for a front hinged door.

I've flown (or flown in) dozens of GA aircraft types over the years. Beechcraft, Cessnas, Grummans, Focke Wulf, Stearman, Pipers, Aeroncas, Taylorcraft, Stinsons, experimentals, etc. And the RV-10 is the only one where the door(s), by themselves are a threat to the aircraft's safety.

None of those other aircraft risk losing a door if you leave it unlatched. None. Zero. They just open a few inches and stay that way until you land. They do not depart the aircraft, and they do not pose the potential to come off and subsequently take out the VS or HS.

Regardless of checklists and multiple latches, there is no excuse for an improperly latched door to be a primary safety of flight concern. Someone is gonna lose a door one day, it is gonna take the tail with it, and the entire aviation community is going to look and say "Idiots. They knew this was a problem and never implemented anything but a Band-Aid solution."
 
RV-10 doors

Why couldn't you have a T that drops into an slot angled inward for a safety latch. No way it would turn loose. That barn door latch is ineffective. It merely slips off when jerked by the wind.
 
"...Van's needs to fix the door design..."

Well, these are EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. If you do not like the design, then you have the power to change it.

I am not quite to the door stage yet but I am planning on using the PlaneAround system. Done correctly, with the pins extending fully through the door frames, I can see no way for the door to come open, once latched...couple that with a warning system, well, you get the idea...
 
I've flown (or flown in) dozens of GA aircraft types over the years. Beechcraft, Cessnas, Grummans, Focke Wulf, Stearman, Pipers, Aeroncas, Taylorcraft, Stinsons, experimentals, etc. And the RV-10 is the only one where the door(s), by themselves are a threat to the aircraft's safety.

Kyle, Just because you have not flown in any other aircraft with similar doors, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Look into the Socata Trinidad and Tobago, or the Columbia 400 (now Cessna Corvalis) to name a couple. And Yes, there are (unfortunately) instances of door loss on both.
 
Kyle, Just because you have not flown in any other aircraft with similar doors, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Look into the Socata Trinidad and Tobago, or the Columbia 400 (now Cessna Corvalis) to name a couple. And Yes, there are (unfortunately) instances of door loss on both.

Scott, your points are correct.

I think they support my position that top hinged doors are a fundamentally flawed design.
 
OK, I'm not an RV-10 builder or owner but rather than fixing the latch, why not move the hinges to the leading edge of the door?

Heck, you are dealing with fiberglass and that stuff is easy to modify.

As mentioned earlier, these are "Experimental" aircraft and YOU are the builder so start experimenting.
 
Come over

I want to build an RV-10, but all of the door accidents are very disconcerting.

Improved latches and procedures are only a band-aid. There is no excuse for the design flaw that causes an unlatched door to depart the airplane. Look at gear-up landing statistics - we will never get pilots to stop missing things like this, and I'm not arrogant enough to think that I'm incapable of a mistake.

What is it going to take for Van's to redesign the RV-10 doors?

Adam, I'm probably less then 15 minutes away from you and getting close to the end of the build. I've got the doors on with the 180 degree Planearound kit. You're welcome to come over anytime and look at the design and mechanism. I think you'll find that it is a very good system that shouldn't lead you to worry much. I wouldn't argue with the folks supporting a Vans design change, but I also think a little attention paid during the build and during the moments before flight will mitigate any risk. Come check it out!
David
 
OK, I'm not an RV-10 builder or owner but rather than fixing the latch, why not move the hinges to the leading edge of the door?

Heck, you are dealing with fiberglass and that stuff is easy to modify.

As mentioned earlier, these are "Experimental" aircraft and YOU are the builder so start experimenting.

How easy would it be to hinge your tip up in the rear? Moving the door hinges to the front would require major reworking of both the door and canopy to accept a new hinge and strut location, and probably the latching mechanism as well.

My $.02 is the door design is adequate and not flawed. It's just not tolerant of improper operation. Could it be better---sure, but as in the gear up example you can't engineer out pilot error. Simple checklist discipline and proper installation would prevent 100% of these accidents.
 
Adam, I'm probably less then 15 minutes away from you and getting close to the end of the build. I've got the doors on with the 180 degree Planearound kit. You're welcome to come over anytime and look at the design and mechanism. I think you'll find that it is a very good system that shouldn't lead you to worry much. I wouldn't argue with the folks supporting a Vans design change, but I also think a little attention paid during the build and during the moments before flight will mitigate any risk. Come check it out!
David

David, thanks for the offer. I'll definitely take you up on that, although I'm pretty tied up for the next few weeks.

Mark showed me his door latches last year, I think he used the same kit as you. I agree that the Planearound kit + door closed indicators + checklists sound like good containment for the problem, but at the end of the day I still think "if door is unlatched, door departs airplane" is a pretty major design flaw.
 
Cessna twins have gone down from baggage doors left unlatched. More than one banana driver has died trying to relatch a door. At least when it departs you don't have 'OK intrepid Joe auger in trying to relatch. A properly built and latched door won't come off. As for comments about a latched door flexing enough to open or a latch sliding open....I'm saying they were incorrectly built or rigged.
 
"...Van's needs to fix the door design..."

Well, these are EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. If you do not like the design, then you have the power to change it.
To be fair, this community seems at times to be equal parts "don't like it? then fix it yourself!" and "if you'd just build/use it the way Van designed it you'd be fine..." And there is strong and sometimes misguided argument on both sides.

A front-hinged door would seem to be the logical solution, but by the same token a gullwing door can be built strong enough to take the loads... I know of a Glasair that's had one of the gullwings open twice, and it's never left the aircraft. It's a much smaller door, but it shows that it's possible to deal with the loads.
 
My statement was by no means a flame. These ARE experimental aircraft. If you feel strongly enough about changing something, then do it. That is the beauty of building your own plane.

That being said, from an engineering standpoint, you really can't just bolt on a couple of strap hinges to the front of the door. (Well, I guess you could...) It is more complex than that. As others have already stated in other threads, you have to consider the rollover structure, the size and loading on the door posts, a new latch system, etc.

It is NOT going to be a simple mod. That is not to say it is not possible, it is just going to be considerably more involved than a lot of people think...

Bob

B.S. Aerospace Engineering '88
 
rule of unintended consequences

As of others have said, this is not simple. Make the door stronger, it's heavier. Now you need a heavier strut to hold it. Now you've given up a tiny bit of climb rate. Will that ever be critical? Will a pilot lose control while trying to close an open door? (this has happened on other aircraft). If it does come off, will the heavier door do more damage to the tail than the existing one? (at least one door has hit the tail, with the aircraft still controllable). Put hinges in front, you may need to beef up the door post. You add weight, and just lost visibility at 10 o'clock. Will that ever be critical?
So far, in flight "testing" shows this to be a non-event safety-wise, even when the door hits the tail. So any changes must be just as safe.
There was one in-flight fire, where the cockpit filled with smoke. The pilot opened the door, it departed, the smoke cleared and he made a safe emergency landing. Maybe the door design is actually a "feature"!
 
...At least when it departs you don't have 'OK intrepid Joe auger in trying to relatch...

Maybe not. One of the early -10's lost a door in flight and it hit the HS. The guy was able to land but was very lucky!

Not only was the HS damaged but the tail cone was twisted. I don't recall if the elevator was also damaged but I suspect so.

The pictures were posted on the net and then removed, so I can't give you more details than that.
 
Maybe not. One of the early -10's lost a door in flight and it hit the HS. The guy was able to land but was very lucky!

Not only was the HS damaged but the tail cone was twisted. I don't recall if the elevator was also damaged but I suspect so.

The pictures were posted on the net and then removed, so I can't give you more details than that.

I do remember that incident, but I seem to recall hearing that the airplane had suffered a VERY hard landing at some point and there was some indication that some of that damage was caused by the earlier hard landing. Deformities in the tailcone, popped rivets, etc. Not sure if I have the details correct, but I remember hearing this from a very reliable source.
 
I do remember that incident, but I seem to recall hearing that the airplane had suffered a VERY hard landing at some point and there was some indication that some of that damage was caused by the earlier hard landing. Deformities in the tailcone, popped rivets, etc. Not sure if I have the details correct, but I remember hearing this from a very reliable source.

I vaguely remember that but think it was someone on the forum just "putting it out there". Either way, the door did a LOT of damage to the HS and the guy was lucky to land the plane.

Someone else might not be as lucky. A door departing the airframe shouldn't endanger the aircraft and door hitting the HS is endangering the craft.

BTW, I spent about an hour looking for pictures of that damaged -10 but can't seem to locate them.
 
One thing that I know for sure, if you think it cannot happen to you, look out. It probably won't , but anyone can mess up. There is always something that can distract everybody, and then there is the "brain farts". I'm always of the "it can happen to me" side and what can I do to help prevent it.
 
This happened to a friend yesterday on his RV10 still in test phase. He reported to me that as it was hot he did not latch the door fully while taxing to the holding point. Only the Vans safety latch was holding the door.

If this sounds bit strange - he did not install the stainless steel plate in the door frame as per instructions so the door was not flush with only the safety latch engaged.

He also did not have an alarm system installed. He ordered one and planned to install in shortly.

He forgot to fully close the door and after levelling off at 8500 the door flew open. Id went up about half way, did about four oscillations just out of reach and then flew off.

He lost his glasses and headset. The headset was found in the back after landing. He made a safe descend and landed. The door did not damage anything on the empennage.

They are going to look for the door today using his other aircraft.

Thank God it ended safely and let us all learn from this.

Glad he made it back down safely. One reason I have spare prescription clear and sun glasses in their cases, velcroed on the left in front of my door. We do our best to prevent this from happening...Sean's latch kit, LED's above EFIS, checklist, handle for the kid's to pull in the rear. Thanks for posting this reminder. Builders should FINISH building before flying and for those of us flying to utilize our check list, slow down as we are only burning 2-3 gph at idle.
 
Old timer advice.

A long, long time ago, I was talking with an old-timer about flying and incidents/accidents.

He said that when you walk toward your airplane, take on a new mindset. Take on a responsible, new look at the day. You're being transformed from a car/motorcycle driver into a PILOT, with a much greater need for safety and checklists to follow, which we don't do driving cars.

He went on to say that we now need to leave behind all our cares, worry about money, the kids, the wife and so on. Think Aviator now and pay close attention to every detail and you'll fly safely for a long time.

Best,
 
Some good news

Some good news is that I have helped the pilot plot where the door could be and convinced him to go and search for it in his other AC. I also believed that it will be mostly undamaged. Needles to say that most did not agree with me.

Yesterday he phoned me - not only did he find the door where I said it will be, but also confirmed that there is very little damage. Plexi still there and not broken. I am getting the door this evening in order to do the glass repair on it for him and will post a picture or two.
 
Agreed, Pierre, except I would modify your post to put autos by themselves. Before I ride, I do a 'preride'. I've had one sudden flat on a motorcycle and don't want to have one again, not to mention any other mechanical mishaps. I also test the controls and signals and do a 'run-up' to make sure the engine won't sag as I pull into traffic (fuel selector is in my checklist because I turn the tank valve to 'off' to protect the engine from gravity fed fuel seepage). Frankly, riding a motorcycle raises my adrenaline more (not saying I don't enjoy riding) than flying, but I try to approach both with reasonable care. Even driving, sometimes. I found myself, on a trip back from Chicago helping Judith move back after her fellowship, walking around my pickup checking the tires, looking for leaks, and inspecting the security of the tarp and cargo net in the bed at each stop.

By the way, I'm not saying I never forget or miss anything. That's why I've developed the cautious habit, to help offset early-onset senility. (Diagnosed by my Dad in my teens:eek:).
 
Maybe not. One of the early -10's lost a door in flight and it hit the HS. The guy was able to land but was very lucky!

Not only was the HS damaged but the tail cone was twisted. I don't recall if the elevator was also damaged but I suspect so.

The pictures were posted on the net and then removed, so I can't give you more details than that.

Fortunately, there was no damage to the elevator. The force that damaged the HS bent the tailcone at the HS at the forward HS attach point.

I may sound like a broken record, but a secondary, and completely independent, safety latch or strap that will keep the door from coming off if the primary latch fails, is my recommendation. The straps I use attach from the main gear weldment arm by the pilot or copilot outboard heel to the door handle itself. They have saved a door departure on at least 2 occasions that I am aware of, and have been unused in 2 door departures that would not have happened had they been used.
 
I may sound like a broken record, but a secondary, and completely independent, safety latch or strap that will keep the door from coming off if the primary latch fails, is my recommendation. The straps I use attach from the main gear weldment arm by the pilot or copilot outboard heel to the door handle itself. They have saved a door departure on at least 2 occasions that I am aware of, and have been unused in 2 door departures that would not have happened had they been used.

If you should have an accident, would emergency responders be able to open the doors with the straps in place?
 
If you should have an accident, would emergency responders be able to open the doors with the straps in place?

Yes, it's a leather strap that could easily be cut by a knife through the crack between the door and the frame when the normal latch is opened.
 
I suppose you can include "unlatch door strap" on the emergency "off field landing" checklist. Good example of how every benefit (door stays shut) has a risk (difficult post crash extraction).
 
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