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  #11  
Old 10-05-2021, 10:12 AM
Glen P Glen P is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kearney View Post
It is only when they are challenged by appeal to TC that they back down.
I’d be interested to hear whether this goes as smoothly as it should. I think you mentioned elsewhere that you weren’t installing a whiskey compass. Did I get that right? Do you anticipate that being an issue with MD-RA?
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2021, 08:24 PM
kearney kearney is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canmore, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen P View Post
I’d be interested to hear whether this goes as smoothly as it should. I think you mentioned elsewhere that you weren’t installing a whiskey compass. Did I get that right? Do you anticipate that being an issue with MD-RA?
Hi Glen

Whisky compass is not an issue if you have a G5X or something equivalent.

That was resolved in my last inspection (2019) although some inspectors are unaware of the rule change. Quote the document on the MD-RA website if you have an issue.

The key for builders is to know the rules as well as the inspectors. They have to play by the rules just as builders do.
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RV10 C-GCWZ Sold and now vacationing in Tulsa
RV10 C-GROK Flying
RV10 # 3 - under construction

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  #13  
Old 10-06-2021, 02:44 AM
pilotpat pilotpat is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
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I searched the MDRA website regarding requiring a compass, found only the final inspection checklist (part 6.6 1 requiring an "Independent Mechanical Compass"). During the close-out inspection last year the inspector said that the compass was required. Could you please supply a link detailing the requirements supporting a final inspection without one?
Thanks
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  #14  
Old 10-06-2021, 06:21 AM
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rv8bldr rv8bldr is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pakenham, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotpat View Post
I searched the MDRA website regarding requiring a compass, found only the final inspection checklist (part 6.6 1 requiring an "Independent Mechanical Compass"). During the close-out inspection last year the inspector said that the compass was required. Could you please supply a link detailing the requirements supporting a final inspection without one?
Thanks
Yes, please, Les, if you could point us at that document that would be great. I am installing systems (including the panel) this winter and haven't figured out the whiskey compass thing. It would be nice if I didn't have to. Like most folks, when I fly I have multiple digital compasses available (phone running FltPlnGo, mounted tablet running FltPlnGo, and the new aircraft will have a G5, two G3X Touch displays all with battery backup and a secondary alternator).
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RV-8 C-GURV (Flying since Nov 2004) - Sold
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2021, 06:34 AM
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riseric riseric is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Québec, CNV9
Posts: 458
Default C18E

Drifting from the gascolator issue but in line from how MD-RA and TCCA interpret the regs.

MD-RA form C18E, page 3:

Below are the applicable paragraphs from the Canadian Aviation Regulation.
Part VI - General Operating and Flight Rules Division II — Aircraft Equipment Requirements Power-driven Aircraft — Day VFR 605.14
No person shall conduct a take-off in a power-driven aircraft for the purpose of day VFR flight unless it is equipped with (d) a magnetic compass or a magnetic direction indicator that operates independently of the aircraft electrical generating system;

Note the word "or" between magnetic compass and magnetic direction indicator.
Refer to definitions on page 2 on the same document.
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2021, 07:27 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sidney, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotpat View Post
I searched the MDRA website regarding requiring a compass, found only the final inspection checklist (part 6.6 1 requiring an "Independent Mechanical Compass"). During the close-out inspection last year the inspector said that the compass was required.
This is a perfect example of the MD-RA applying their (incorrect) interpretation and not the regulation.
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1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #17  
Old 10-07-2021, 05:10 AM
pilotpat pilotpat is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
Default MD-RA Final Inspection with "magnetic direction indicator" vs "magnetic compass"

Can anyone supply installation details where MD-RA (or TC after resolution) accepted a final inspection where there was a "magnetic direction indicator" rather than a mechanical compass? Those details would help.
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  #18  
Old 10-07-2021, 07:54 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Location: Sidney, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotpat View Post
Can anyone supply installation details where MD-RA (or TC after resolution) accepted a final inspection where there was a "magnetic direction indicator" rather than a mechanical compass? Those details would help.
Les (user Kearney above) passed an inspection that way.
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1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2021, 05:16 PM
kearney kearney is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canmore, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
Les (user Kearney above) passed an inspection that way.
Hi

Both my RV10 builds were passed without a whisky compass. Below is an email that I received from Al Mahon, the president of MD-RA.

See document C70E on the MD-RA website - it is referenced in the email.

From: Allan Mahon
Sent: July 21, 2021 8:53 AM
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Inspection deficiencies - whiskey compass requirement

Les,
If in fact we have a delegate who isn’t aware of the EFIS compass requirement, I would only recommend you educate the RV-8 builder by forwarding the two Information/Guidance letters I provided in my response to you.
For warned it for armed!
Thanks
Allan

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: les@kmcl.ca
Sent: July 21, 2021 10:01 AM
To: 'Allan Mahon'
Cc:
Subject: RE: Inspection deficiencies - whiskey compass requirement

Hi Al

Thank you for the response.

To keep things simple, I'll focus on just the whiskey compass issue in this email.

Understanding that a Garmin G5X with a 4 hour internal backup battery meets & exceeds the C70E requirements (independent etc.),

1. What is the recourse of a builder who is told by their inspector that they MUST install a whiskey compass even though they have met the requirements of C70E?
2. Given this instruction, how does a builder handle this so that their CoA is not delayed?

You may recall, I went through this argument when my RV10 was inspected in 2019 and was told quite explicitly that I MUST install a whiskey compass. It took more than a little effort on my part to get this resolved.

Cheers

Les
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RV10 C-GCWZ Sold and now vacationing in Tulsa
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RV10 # 3 - under construction

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