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Am I crazy telling everyone this?

Subwaybob

Well Known Member
OK, so I have this airplane in my garage, stop me if you've heard this one...

Seriously, just want some feedback on whether I should shut up or not.

RV-7

1. Got Emp on 3-31-12
2. I am done with it and the wings.
3. Now putting the seats in the fuse and it's 5-30-12

Now hold onto your britches, I am telling everyone I can find that I will be done by around Sept 1st.... Possible?

I don't work on it 12 hours a day but I do around 4 EVERY DAY consistently when I'm not on here asking silly questions. It just seems I finish a major task everyday and things don't seem to be slowing down. So am I missing something or am I going to spend 60 days running a rudder cable or something screwy like that. Please let me know so I can keep telling my wife I'm gonna kiss her upside down 5000' in the air, or not....
 
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I suppose at the clip you're going it's possible to be done. But if you build based on a deadline you might be setting youself up for a HUGE failure. Not saying it can't be done but I wouldn't want to put any pressure on the job. Flying DOES have some dangerous risks involved.
 
I don't see it happening

Panel, wiring, and plumbing take quite a while. The build manual has very little to say about these areas so the head scratching goes up considerably.
 
If you stick with a basic panel and electrical system (Vans harness) it may be possible. That is assuming you already have all the parts you need in-hand. If you don't already have your engine, prop, interior, then no way the lead time on those parts will put you past Sep. Based on what you said I would say you are 20-30% complete so 25% = 2mo, 100%=8mo, so September is unlikely. Even if you go for it, don't give that date to others, just say what the rest of us do. Sunday! (won't tell what week, month, year).
 
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Bob,
I can show you one of those 90% done 90% to go projects just a little west of you in Euless:D
 
I think it is great!

Bob, that's great. It gives me hope to get finished quickly too. I got my empannage kit in March, finished most of it in April, had to pay taxes, ordering my wing kit now.

Im like you, when I work, I go in 4-8 hour shifts and just do it. Im not racing, but I don't like to waste time either. The thing that slowed me down was not ordering a complete tool kit thinking I could get tools as I needed them. Well, that happened almost everyday until I now THINK I have most of what I need. Boy, those taxes hurt!!!

Keep working and get that plane in the air. Do you have a picture log we can look at?
 
With 4 hours a day, maybe a bit too optimistic to get it done by September, but it is not impossible. As a reference, it took me 15 months to finish mine which included painting (12 months for building and 3 months for paint and final assembly) and it certainly not a simplest plane in terms of panel. I got my phase one completed in less than three weeks and so far over 380 hours on tac in three years. Been enjoying every minute of those 380 hours.

I worked on it consistently every day and set goals for each section (mini project) but never aimed to cut corners based on the time/goal set.

Keep at it, it will be done before you know it.
 
Just when you think you're 90% done, you'll be left with all the wiring and fiberglass work yet to be done ;)
 
You lost them from further critical evaluation when ...

It doesn't matter what you tell them so blather all the optimism you want. My guess is that it is a self motivational practice that did not begin with this airplane in your life.

People are still trying to grasp the airplane in the garage thing and first timer schedules don't even register for critical evaluation. Of course you can be done by September 1 ... I note that you wisely did not say what year. My guess is 2016. When we were building our RV-6A I told people in all honesty that I though I would have it flying by next year for about 4 years.

Bob Axsom
 
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I do not have a picture log. I take pictures here and there but spend most of my time working and not logging. (However, thank all of you that did!!) I can say this: I have one tool that cuts TREMENDOUS time off of fabricating tasks. A 4" angle grinder. It cuts EVERYTHING and grinds everything else. Have not touched my bench grinder yet.

http://www.amazon.com/Makita-9554NB-2-Inch-Angle-Grinder/dp/B0009OR8WA

I want to make a point that I AM NOT RACING. I am just doing task by task. If I make a mistake I set the part to the side, order another one from Van's and in the mean time I MOVE ON! I have 3 things waiting on my angle drill to come in that I thought I didn't need.

I really appreciate the comments keep em coming. All helpful. But I am not cutting ANY corners or racing to a certain deadline. Just asking...
 
54 Days from Emp Kit finished to first flight

Will Ramsey's RV-8A at Jay Pratt's place. 10 hours a day six days a week.

I was there.
 
I find there's more head scratching going on when you run out of plans. If you spend your time away from the shop designing your electrical/panel and you use a standard FWF kit you can keep your pace moving along.
 
Will Ramsey's RV-8A at Jay Pratt's place. 10 hours a day six days a week.

I was there.

But that was with Jay (and probably others) who had built ??? RVs previously. I recall an RVator article about someone who built a -6, IFR, painted, etc. from a slow build kit in 127 days. He had built a number of RVs previously.

Clecoing the wings together and then driving the rivets is a different thing than the canopy or the cowling, not to mention the electrical, avionics, etc. that others have already addressed.
 
Many years ago there was a guy at Oshkosh who had an RV-6 as I recall that he and his buddy had completed -- with paint -- in something like 64 days. I think they were from California.

They had built several other RVs prior to this project, and had an assembly line of procedures that they used like deburring and priming things right out of the box, and worked an average of 18 hours a day.

"I guess you're not married," I joked.

He looked at me, wiping bugs off the spinner and replied, "Yeah, I'm married. But when the box showed up from Van's, I told her that I'd be back when the plane was done."

That's a level of dedication to a project (or a dedication to avoid a wife) that I just can't fathom. :D
 
An RV12 is certainly different, but I hit that "90% done, 90% to go" when at the last stages myself, probably more profound than the other RV's with all the pre punched pop rivet stuff that goes REALLY fast in the initial stages..
 
For me, I consider the plane to be 50% when the tail is mounted,the wings are closed and are trial mounted complete with flaps, ailerons, and wing tips. The engine mount is on, the canopy is fitted and the aircraft is on the wheels.
This leaves firewall forward, wiring, and fit and finish of glass parts for the remaining 50%
 
Wil Ramsey RV8A and other records...,

Wil Ramseys RV8a was a QB kit.

It was a QB, we had two full time, Wil and me. We had Vroom and Troy part time. 54 days to first flight. The panel was built to Vans specs and we had done several like it. Wil had all the emp done, parts ordered before we started.
I built my RV8 QB 'Borrowed Horse' in 14 months. Mostly after work, evening hours. Pippin York Flying Machines Fredricksburg,TX did the panel, Vroom wired it in. Troy helped with the glass.
Bill Turner brought a RV8 QB to my shop and we flew it 92 days later. He had the tail done before he showed up :) We did not have to wait for panel or engine or Prop,,, he had everything ordered.
Bob, I think you can do it!! keep going!!
 
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Take your time

I finished my empenage in a month, and when I was done, I was disappointed it was over. For me this about the journey; not the end result. There are certainly faster and less expensive ways to bore holes in the sky than building your own airplane. Also, I think you need to allow time for you experience to catch-up to your progress. I know for me when I move too fast I can get ahead of that experience and make mistakes, or end-up with results I'm less than pleased with. I can't wait to get my 9 in the air, but I'm savoring every minute of the build...
 
I gave up a long time ago trying to forecast when my bird will fly, I've busted every one of my forecast dates. Now I just go work on it, and know that every piece I get finished is one less piece that has to be done, and someday I'll get to fly it.

Now when people ask me when it will fly, I just tell them "It's gonna fly on Tuesday. I just don't know which one."
 
I gave up a long time ago trying to forecast when my bird will fly, I've busted every one of my forecast dates. Now I just go work on it, and know that every piece I get finished is one less piece that has to be done, and someday I'll get to fly it.

Now when people ask me when it will fly, I just tell them "It's gonna fly on Tuesday. I just don't know which one."

That's almost funny - its exactly my story and what I tell everyone except Vlad (and I tell him this year - he's predicting 2014). I'm working on the panel now.

I'm at a loss to understand how the engine and fiberglass and wiring is going to take half the build time...but I might just find out. One things for sure, the next one (if there is a next one) will go WAY faster. I have learned SO MUCH.
 
I think Tom Martin and others sound like the voices of experience here. A lot will also have to do with the complexity of the systems you choose. If you're going with ANY kind of glass panel, setup and verification can take a while. There was a very unfortunate RV10 accident with alternative engine that happened a while ago where a contributing factor was that the glass panel was not set up properly and engine temperatures and pressures were completely wrong.

In my case, the 90 percent done 90 percent to go old saw applied in the expectation that once the airframe was done I was "almost done". In fact I would say that systems installations (engine, avionics, flight controls etc.) and finish were at least half of the build time.

You sound like you're making very brisk progress and my congratulations to you. I would avoid setting yourself up for disappointment for no good reason! As a last comment I would add that my N number is 705CM. 7 for the Vans model number, CM for Constant and Maney (my mentor) and 05 because 06 wasn't available and that's when I thought I would be done. I was done in November of 09! I kept the N number to remind myself of how far off my estimate was and how much I learned along the way:D

All Best

Jeremy Constant
RV7A 170hrs
 
What you are proposing is to finish your RV in roughly 30% the time that the average builder takes. This seems highly unlikely, but if this is the pace you are on, than the one suggestion I have is to invite several seasoned RV builders to closely observe your work from start to finish.
 
Build Time

First thanks for all the opinions. Diamond says I'm proposing doing it in 30% of the time. This may be true, and this I may be proposing. I can say these things as to why:

1. I don't spent 3 days deburing and inspecting with a magnifying glass every hole I make on a single skin.
2. I have already saved the money for the airplane so I do not have to wait on that or explain to some banker that my 850+ credit score should be enough to insure I repay. (I suspect this may me a factor in the increased build time also.)
3. Once I figure out a task I assembly line the stupid thing. Henry Ford was one smart cookie.
4. My wife brings me coffee and sweet tea anytime I want. I text her and here it shows up.
5. Bathroom is right next to the garage.

AAAAAAAND 6....

I'm just too stupid to let anyone tell me something can't be done. Now I may not make Sept 1st but you can bet your bottom it will not be long after if it is. I again stress that I AM NOT RACING, but I darn sure am not slacking either. If I'm right we can all have a fly-in somewhere and I will bring sandwich platters enough to make you sick. So start rooting! (I am feeding you after all!!):eek:
 
Bob, we can do anyting we make a commitment to do. My only regret is that I cannot come down to help out. My wife audited the checkbook. She claims I spent $500 in fuel in the last two weeks. A build project would slow that down.
The key to success is planning ahead and having all of the parts available when needed. You should already have a pretty good idea of your panel and electrical needs. Engine, prop, finishing kit, and FWF need to already be ordered or sitting in the garage.BTW, make ALL of your wire and static runs in the tail boom BEFORE you rivet the skins on. Crawling back in the tail is a real pain if you are doing more than just an inspection.
 
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It can be done if you manage your time , build smart and have the drive (Ibuilt a slow build rv-6 IFR painted and complety done in 85 days flew to oskosh and recieved best workmanship award)
 
OK, so I have this airplane in my garage, stop me if you've heard this one...

Seriously, just want some feedback on whether I should shut up or not.

RV-7

1. Got Emp on 3-31-12
2. I am done with it and the wings.
3. Now putting the seats in the fuse and it's 5-30-12

Now hold onto your britches, I am telling everyone I can find that I will be done by around Sept 1st.... Possible?

I don't work on it 12 hours a day but I do around 4 EVERY DAY consistently when I'm not on here asking silly questions. It just seems I finish a major task everyday and things don't seem to be slowing down. So am I missing something or am I going to spend 60 days running a rudder cable or something screwy like that. Please let me know so I can keep telling my wife I'm gonna kiss her upside down 5000' in the air, or not....

Your kit is a QB, right? I'd say you have 1,000 man hours of work left if you have someone else paint the airplane. At 4 hours per day, that's about 250 days or 8 months.

The cowling, canopy, FWF, and panel are each a hundred hours (easily), and then you have all the fiberglass to install, rigging to do, and a host of other things that will chew up a lot of time.
 
There is nothing at all wrong with having aggressive goals, but make sure that you don't get so driven by meeting those goals publicly that you fixate on a date and let quality or issues slide. The truth is that, like almost every builder, you are going to be faced with at least one crisis that requires you to significantly disassemble something that you thought was done. That will cost you a lot of time and effort, and you might question if what you have done is good enough already. You need to be able to stop, back up, and say "to heck with the schedule!" and fix the problem.

Your original question was not "should I be building this fast?", but "should I tell anyone about it?" Well, that depends on your own self-discipline, and the ability to tell folks "Well, I know I said I'd be done by September, but I've got problems that are going to stretch that way out." Keeping deadlines to yourself is one way of not having to "lose face" when you can't make them. The answer to your question is how well your own ego can deal with not living up to what you have said publicly. I have significant experience in the world of aerospace and "schedule pressure". It is NOT trivial, and people get killed because of it.

All that said - build at your own pace, and see where you end up!

Paul
 
I'm totally slacking. 7 years so far. But I'm about 70% of the way through the 90% that is the last 10%.

I just try to do something every day, and plan out blocks of time for big operations that don't lend themselves well to constant interruption.

I think mine might fly on Thursday, but Tuesday is probably unrealistic.
 
It is finished when it is done.

It flies when the plane and the test pilot are ready.

If you are reading this then go work on the plane or spend time with the family.
 
Your original question was not "should I be building this fast?", but "should I tell anyone about it?" Well, that depends on your own self-discipline, and the ability to tell folks "Well, I know I said I'd be done by September, but I've got problems that are going to stretch that way out." Keeping deadlines to yourself is one way of not having to "lose face" when you can't make them. The answer to your question is how well your own ego can deal with not living up to what you have said publicly. I have significant experience in the world of aerospace and "schedule pressure". It is NOT trivial, and people get killed because of it.

All that said - build at your own pace, and see where you end up!

Paul

Paul, I'm married and I'm wrong every day. I didn't know how wrong I was till I got married! That being said, I am going at my own pace. I just see "YEARS" on peoples build and not often months. Honestly, I often go back several times and see if I missed anything because it seems to go by too guickly. I follow the plans and it's a quick build so many of my mistakes are are negated by some nice Philipino who did my work.

Oh and you have nothing on me. Wait till you have some crazy soccer mom scream at you for messing up her 6" veggie! I just point at one of the girls on the line and say "It's her fault..."
 
Hey Bob, I wish you good luck and look forward to your completion update on this thread come Sept 1. :p
 
Hey Bob, I wish you good luck and look forward to your completion update on this thread come Sept 1. :p

Now that's messed up Chad! But ok, keep subscribed to it and I will be happy to eat my words if I am not really close to it. As Paul says be ready to say "Man was I off!! Maybe October..." :) Either way I will be happy to give an update. My question is really moot though. I've heard everything from 68 days and you can do it to 10 years and no freakin way! He he. All great answers for a first time builder. First but not last. The 10 is next.:D
 
The truth of the matter is nobody can answer for you how long a task will take you to complete. I've seen guys struggle with tasks that I think are basic knowledge. Some people really struggle and take well deserved pride in accomplishing something that you may finish while coasting through an afternoon while watching the game on TV. It also depends on how many changes you intend to make. The nutplated GIB floor skins have cost me a ridiculous amount of time on my -8.

It's all about your skillset, drive, bank account and family support. Build it at your pace...and it's done when it's done. Prebuilt harnesses when possible, vertical power, lycoming in a crate, prebuilt panel even....your deadline can be made if your checkbook is fat and your daily production solid.

Build your own everything....more difficult, but still not impossible if your panel isn't too complicated....maybe. :)

In any event, remember to enjoy the building process along the way!
 
Sept 1st is certainly possible...

.... as long as you don't say WHICH YEAR you plan to be done on 9/1... :D
 
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Time to build

Well I have 35 minutes to finish... I wanted to be done by Sept 1st and um no way...
1. Engine still 2 weeks out.
2. Instruments 2 weeks out.
3. Finish kit took took the ENTIRE 2 moths they said it would.
4. Seats still 2 MONTHS out!

I did not anticipate things taking so long to get in. Well I have the finish and firewall fwd kit. Working on finish and waiting on engine. 5 months may have been a little lofty. I am working diligently though. It is amazing how things just fit together with this kit. I will shoot for Nov 1st now. Who knows? 7 months for a RV7 may just be the lucky number!! I know it's not the fastest but I am making sure it all fits together just right. I really am getting tired of reading how much fun Vlad is having in his 9 though, so I might be pushing my wife and 16 month old a little hard. The little one just crys when she has to hold the bucking bar.:eek:
 
There should be no problem getting it finished by September .... You didn't specify which one.
We planned to have ours done and flying in Spring. It was done in Spring with two days to spare. It was the Spring a year after we expected :D

I will shoot for Nov 1st now. ...
There you go... Sept 1 comes after Nov 1 ... so you'll be done by Sept 1 !;)
 
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Well I have 35 minutes to finish... I wanted to be done by Sept 1st and um no way...
1. Engine still 2 weeks out.
2. Instruments 2 weeks out.
3. Finish kit took took the ENTIRE 2 moths they said it would.
4. Seats still 2 MONTHS out!

I did not anticipate things taking so long to get in. Well I have the finish and firewall fwd kit. Working on finish and waiting on engine. 5 months may have been a little lofty. I am working diligently though. It is amazing how things just fit together with this kit. I will shoot for Nov 1st now. Who knows? 7 months for a RV7 may just be the lucky number!! I know it's not the fastest but I am making sure it all fits together just right. I really am getting tired of reading how much fun Vlad is having in his 9 though, so I might be pushing my wife and 16 month old a little hard. The little one just crys when she has to hold the bucking bar.:eek:
Bob, where are you getting your seats?
 
Seats

Bob, where are you getting your seats?

Hi Mark. Getting them from Classic Aero. Bought the leather Aviator seats for durability and comfort. I also checked with Flight Line and they are around 6 months, that's right SIX months on production. Classic Aero was around 2.5 months production time. With the Aviators I get some memory foam and I do not have to use the back rest that came with the kit. (Which I already built...:))
 
Hmmm, that's good to know. Not like I'm anywhere near done, but if it's that much lead time, I just may go ahead and address this now. Plus I can sit in them and make airplane noises!
 
Hmmm, that's good to know. Not like I'm anywhere near done, but if it's that much lead time, I just may go ahead and address this now. Plus I can sit in them and make airplane noises!

Mark,

Engine is at least 45 days. Instruments are the same. Interior takes minimum 2 months. Prop is only a few weeks if you order from vans. In short when you get the money ORDER! I had the cash and did not anticipate the back log on these things. Finish kit took a full 60 days to get in.
 
This will be a fun thread to keep alive.. We'll check in again with you Bob in November when you are finished. ;-)

I understand peer pressure can be great motivation ;-)

At any rate, I have been working on my standard build for 3.5 years.. I am hoping, but not committing to a winter completion. Maybe by Nov ? More likely by Jan-Mar..
 
This will be a fun thread to keep alive.. We'll check in again with you Bob in November when you are finished. ;-)

I understand peer pressure can be great motivation ;-)

At any rate, I have been working on my standard build for 3.5 years.. I am hoping, but not committing to a winter completion. Maybe by Nov ? More likely by Jan-Mar..

I'm with you Chad! Going as cautiously as fast as I can. I did however spend the whole freaking night figuring out Molex connectors and which side goes in which, and that I DID NOT have an open pin crimper for some reason among the 10,000 tools I have acquired my whole life. I think I'm hauling butt, then I spend 3 hours looking at the end of a stupid wire and connector and wonder why it's magically connecting it's self together!

Looks as though the instruments and engine are only a week or so out. So when they get here I am going to stand over the plane, throw them in the air and see if they know where to land. :D (I'll stand close to the front to give them a fighting chance!)
 
i think the idea of a deadline or a sense of urgency to finish would really kill the fun of the project to me
 
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