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Acceptable test area in phase 1

dreed

Well Known Member
Hi All-

I did some searching but could not find anything.

I am completing my program letter and wanted to ask what you've all seen as an acceptable phase 1 testing area. My plane is in located in Bend, OR and 25SM is likely more than enough area, but was curious as to what others had requested and had approved.

Thanks
dan
 
For my 14, I was given 100 mile radius of my home airport. An RV is fast. You need to ask for enough room to fly without always turning.
 
Yep, what he said.
Mel gave me a 75 nm radius around 52F for my Phase 1 test. Plenty.
 
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I got 75 nm miles. The my specific DAR had been giving 100 NM test area, but he was directed to give 75 nm max. This was about 6 months ago and in Florida.

I would suggest you reach out to your DAR and ask what was appropriate. Suggest a 100 nm as a starting point and go from there. Also, you may want to center your test area somewhere other than you home base airport to avoid water, high terrain, busy airspace, etc or to get to another airport or area.

If it is a test area for a RV, even a 12, you are going to want more than 25 nm.
 
I typically give a 75nm radius for RVs except for the -12 (55nm radius). The home airport need not be in the center of the circle, just within it. I also offer 1 airport outside the circle up to about 125nm.

I'm flexible with these numbers as long as it is reasonable. And it may be defined by points instead of a radius. My FSDO has never given me problems.

OTOH, I HAVE refused test area requests such as "a 1 mile wide corridor to Oshkosh"!
 
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I picked mine

I had the local FSDO do my inspection, and afterward, we drew my test area out on a sectional based on my choice of favorable airports as "corners". Mine was more of a trapezoidal corridor that gave me access to airports I was familiar with. A simple radius circle that many imagine isn't practical.
 
Dang you guys are lucky! My DAR had me just put "area local to KWRL" on the program letter and I only got 45 mile radius. Only allows me to go to two other airports. (thank goodness one of them has fuel that is a dollar cheaper than my home base :D) That being said, I don't feel like testing requires that big of an area...
 
My plane is in located in Bend, OR and 25SM is likely more than enough area, but was curious as to what others had requested and had approved.
Hi Dan-
I was just down at Bend a couple weeks ago and was surprised at how busy it is. I too fly at an airport with a large college flight program, but Bend was substantially busier than it.
Given that, I'd encourage you to ask for a larger Phase I area, particularly one large enough to get you to an airport with much lower traffic volume and where practice areas are more open. Emergencies are bad enough alone, but in congested airspace it can be harder to deal with.
FWIW I got 75-100 miles based on this rationale, IIRC.
Good luck.
 
The BIGGER the better

Get as large a radius as you can. Ask your DAR what the largest radius they are permitted (on their own) to give you.
I got 100 miles. During phase one "endurance" testing that 200 mile diameter seemed a tad short when you're running at full power. Slow flight its not a problem.
If at all possible, include several airports in that radius to permit practicing at multiple (hopefully a mix of towered / non-towered) "unfamiliar" airports to really get familiar with your aircraft performance in differing patterns.
I use the term radius, but you and the DAR can work out a test area that has your home airport off to one side, with the test area located over less populated terrain - based on your geographical area.
 
Thanks all! 75 would be great actually, and I'll verify with the DAR when I chat with him.

Steve - Yes, Bend is busy (3rd busiest airport in OR). Lots of training in both fixed wing and rotary wing and a very busy practice area.

Thanks again
dan
 
I was given boundaries that had a perimeter of about 400 miles, which was great. The challenge as I understand it, especially in my case here in the Northeast is that there are many FSDOs involved, and if your flight test area spans the jurisdiction of more than one, it has to be coordinated with each office.

My DAR asked me to figure out where I wanted my test area to be, so I drew it up, bounded by airports and submitted it. It had to be changed slightly because of the reasons above (originally i had 4 FSDOs involved) and settled on two.
 
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As with most things bureaucratic, do the work for them and make them say no if it is unacceptable.
Draw the area you want on a sectional and present it.
Include other airports (with cheap gas) and sparsely populated areas.
They will likely say “looks good” and file it.

Be reasonable, but proactive. Always go in with a plan or proposal on paper and you will have a much better outcome.
 
Flight Test Area......

Dang you guys are lucky! My DAR had me just put "area local to KWRL" on the program letter and I only got 45 mile radius. Only allows me to go to two other airports. (thank goodness one of them has fuel that is a dollar cheaper than my home base :D) That being said, I don't feel like testing requires that big of an area...:D:D:D:D

Depart Home Airport. Right turnout crosswind. Up to test altitude: 8000 feet (home field 5200). Checking off Test Flight Card items, this one for Full Power Cruise at 8000. Set up for that. Stabilize flight. Making notes on my Flight Data Sheet. CHT/EGT; fuel flow....... Woh: how did we get HERE already??

My (great) DAR was familiar with how fast these airplanes fly. My test area was from home airport (KEIK) 0 degrees North to the Wyoming border, 90 degrees East to the Kansas/Nebraska border NOT including any controlled airspace: a large rectangular test area. Julesberg (7V8) is 137 nautical miles from home. That was my fuel flow destination for most cruise speeds data collection. I had great information on performance and fuel flow going there on multiple flights at various speeds and altitudes. I did not need to be concerned with busting my designated area. That was in 1997.

You need as large an area as your DAR is able to give you. 45 miles?:D: that is 13.5 minutes at 200 mph. Flaps up; turn out; climb to altitude; 180 degree turn to home base. No: you need room to set up and stabilize your flight, not having to worry about a 45 mile radius. 100 miles would be a great place to start. These airplanes go FAST and you need to be concentrating on date collection, flight performance, trim settings, power settings, CHT/EGT, etc. There is a LOT going on when you are (correctly) performing your test flying. I actually found I had not completed my Flight Cards when I was done with my "fly-off" time and I continued my flight testing beyond the required hours. This is NOT a time to be just "flying off" the time. And not the time to have someone else "flying off the time". The more you know about your airplane during this critical time in its development, the less you are likely to "discover" later. Am I OCD? Oh, yeah. My 6.5 year build time is testament to that, albeit an RV-4 being a 'slow build' back then. But that is a GOOD thing when one is building and testing a BRAND NEW, NEVER FLOWN airplane. And after 1220+ hours: No surprises.

IMHO.......
 
Depart Home Airport. Right turnout crosswind. Up to test altitude: 8000 feet (home field 5200). Checking off Test Flight Card items, this one for Full Power Cruise at 8000. Set up for that. Stabilize flight. Making notes on my Flight Data Sheet. CHT/EGT; fuel flow....... Woh: how did we get HERE already??

My (great) DAR was familiar with how fast these airplanes fly. My test area was from home airport (KEIK) 0 degrees North to the Wyoming border, 90 degrees East to the Kansas/Nebraska border NOT including any controlled airspace: a large rectangular test area. Julesberg (7V8) is 137 nautical miles from home. That was my fuel flow destination for most cruise speeds data collection. I had great information on performance and fuel flow going there on multiple flights at various speeds and altitudes. I did not need to be concerned with busting my designated area. That was in 1997.

You need as large an area as your DAR is able to give you. 45 miles?:D: that is 13.5 minutes at 200 mph. Flaps up; turn out; climb to altitude; 180 degree turn to home base. No: you need room to set up and stabilize your flight, not having to worry about a 45 mile radius. 100 miles would be a great place to start. These airplanes go FAST and you need to be concentrating on date collection, flight performance, trim settings, power settings, CHT/EGT, etc. There is a LOT going on when you are (correctly) performing your test flying. I actually found I had not completed my Flight Cards when I was done with my "fly-off" time and I continued my flight testing beyond the required hours. This is NOT a time to be just "flying off" the time. And not the time to have someone else "flying off the time". The more you know about your airplane during this critical time in its development, the less you are likely to "discover" later. Am I OCD? Oh, yeah. My 6.5 year build time is testament to that, albeit an RV-4 being a 'slow build' back then. But that is a GOOD thing when one is building and testing a BRAND NEW, NEVER FLOWN airplane. And after 1220+ hours: No surprises.

IMHO.......

Some good points for sure. Would I have liked a bigger test area and next time will I request one, you bet! A few more turns doesn't hurt my feelings though... :) I am yet to find a time where I say to myself "dang, I really need more room here".

Am I doing all my test flying and following the cards? Absolutely, I am. However, these planes are well documented and I am yet to find anything new other than I have a heavy right wing that will get addressed.

One thing that has helped big time is that I fly my cards but don't take elaborate notes because I can export all of my data from the HDX and analyze it safely on the computer. Data point every half second. Very nice.
 
100 mile radius...

Excluding all Class Bravo and Class Charlie airspace. It worked out well, even considering my proximity to a lot of Class Bravo airspace.
 
As with most things bureaucratic, do the work for them and make them say no if it is unacceptable.
Draw the area you want on a sectional and present it.
Include other airports (with cheap gas) and sparsely populated areas.
They will likely say “looks good” and file it.

That's what I did and the DAR gave me an area 4 times what I asked for (East of I-15 to the Nevada border from Provo to Beaver airports). It helps that pretty much all of that is uninhabited desert, but that's something that Bend has going for it as well.

Request a nice big area that avoids cities but has several other low traffic airports you can fly to for things like takeoff and landing performance tests where you will spend more time on the runway than you would want to someplace busy.
 
Oregon DAR

Hi Dan,

I had my inspection just a couple months ago for my -10 in the Portland area and was told by my DAR that the NW FAA office does things a bit differently out here. Not sure if you’ll get a similar deal but mine was a 100 mi radius, stay west of the Cascades and out of the PDX class C. I was also required to pick two airports that I was “allowed” to operate out of besides my home base. He said the FSDO reluctantly started allowing a 100mi radius but didn’t want people to start taking trips, etc during Phase 1 and that’s the reason for the two airport restriction. Kind of dumb but oh well.

Have fun!

Mark Easton
 
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