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Preparing for airworthiness inspection

apkp777

Well Known Member
Hey all,

I am going to have the FAA inspect the airplane. I have talked to my local FSDO (Milwaukee) and they are more than happy to do it. They need about a week's notice.

Question is. Do I take lots of photos and close up the entire airplane? Or should I leave everything open? I asked the FAA inspector and he was ambiguous. He said "yeah take photos of the area before you close it up".

Here's what's open now:

Baggage compartment panels (sides, floors and aft wall)
Seat floor panels
Flap motor cover
Spar panels
Center cover
Wing panels
Wing root fairing
Lower cowling
Upper cowling
 
For what it's worth Albany NY asked meet to shut everything up and have the aircraft in "flight ready" condition. I had taken lots of pictures during the build and in the end I was only asked to remove the upper cowl during the inspection.

About half of the time was spent discussing rules and regulations, especially those pertaining to Phase 1 limitations and beyond.

Jim Sharkey
RV-6
 
The Feds did mine and they were absolutely fabulous to work with. Told me exactly what paperwork to have ready including AD's, W&B and build log.

As Jim noted above I presented the aircraft to them ready to fly but had the top cowl ready to remove so he could have a look. When he got there I asked if he would like me to open anything up for inspection but he declined that offer (I showed him under the cowl anyway just because I'm so prouid of it :D) Other than some "oohing and ahhing" about how nice the plane was he didn't really "inspect" much.

I had all the paperwork layed out on a table nice and neat so he could peruse it, about 30 min later I had the pink slip.

I think it helped that I've been an A&P for 25 years (airline mostly) which seemed to put him at ease.

Just a personal comment here: for those of you that have the feds do your airplane don't count on them to find discrepancies for you, that's not thier job :eek:, just because they bless it with a pink slip doesn't mean it's really "airworthy".

Make sure you have a competent mechanic/RV builder inspect your aircraft before you fly.
 
I agree with Walt - it isn't really a full inspection, you do that yourself before you make the certification in the logbook that the aircraft has been inspected per Appendix D to Part 43 and is in a safe condition for operation.

Jim Sharkey
 
My experience with the FAA doing my inspection echo's Jim and Walt's. They had actually contacted me to see if our EAA chapter could help a gentleman get his powered parachute legal during the LSA implementation. During the exchange I mentioned I was building and would need an inspection and asked about DAR's local to my area. The FAA guy said he'd be happy to do it personally (even though he had to drive 2 1/2 hours to get to me).

When I asked your question, he said he wanted the 7 ready for flight. I wanted to make sure I understood and he said yes, install all the covers. He had me send pictures and keep him abreast of my progress once the airplane was at the airport. I would not have been comfortable with this except I had several inspections by local A&P's and tech counselors during the build. We opened nothing during the inspection. It was mostly looking at placards, switch labels, paperwork and going over the op limits, and checking control travel, direction, etc. The head of the FAA FAAST team was with him as well as another gentleman who was observing. I believe he was going to be a DAR. They asked several questions about my training and intentions. I was pretty impressed, as they had a genuine interest and seemed to honestly want to help out and make sure I had a safe phase one. I also agree with others that it would be well worth the money to hire a DAR and get a thorough, panel open inspection, if you have any doubts what so ever.
 
I suspect every FSDO has their own quirks in regards to the issuance of airworthiness certificates to experimentals. At our EAA chapter last year we had a group come up from the Hillsboro FSDO to make a presentation on how they issue airworthiness certificates. They made it abundantly clear they would not be coming to "inspect" the airplane...only to make sure the paperwork was correct and to ascertain (verbally, from the builder) that the aircraft had been built according to the plans. That is a change...when I had my airplane inspected (by the same FSDO) four years ago, the inspector showed up with a toolkit and was upside down and all over the airplane for almost 2 1/2 hours. He did find two squawks, easily dealt with, and we were done.
I'm less comfortable with the current FAA method, but it illustrates the importance of having more than one set of eyeballs look your project over on a routine basis, and also should add importance to having tech counselors look over the project as you go.
I suspect each FSDO will be different, as will each DAR. Some will know what they are looking at and make it their responsibility to really inspect things...others will make sure the paperwork is in order and issue the pink slip.
 
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While there is absolutely nothing wrong with having the FSDO do your airworthiness certification, I would point out that after doing this for 11 years now, I have found only 1 aircraft, out of almost 1,000, that I have not found at least one discrepancy. Some FSDOs actually do a physical inspection and some don't.

If you choose to go this route, be SURE that you have had everyone you know and probably a few that you don't, look over your aircraft with the intent of finding something.
 
Two inspectors from the Indianapolis FSDO came down to Evansville, IN to inspect my RV-7A last year. They wanted all inspection covers, cowlings and fairings off. The two of them spent all morning going over everything that was accessible. They even found a fuel tank mounting bolt, between inspection covers, that wasn't tightened. They performed a VERY thorough but FAIR inspection and actually gave several very good suggestions. When they left for lunch they asked for the airplane to be completely re-assembled ready for flight before they issued the airworthiness certificate. They left with flight ready pictures of N14SE and I had the pink slip and my repairman's certificate.

I was very impressed with how thorough and fair they were. Unlike what I was expecting, I felt I actually got a very good airworthiness inspection.
 
All very good input. I should add that I do have A&P, IA and FCC licenses. I am having an EAA Tech Counselor come on Tuesday and I had an IA friend look over the FWF on Saturday.

I am in complete agreement that multiple sets of eyes on the inspection is critical. I am leaning toward the FAA doing the inspection just because it is simpler. Plus they seemed like great people to work with when I talked to them when I went recently for my CFI renewal.

I might even have another RV-9 builder take a peek. (2 already have).
 
Tony,

Just have everything that can possibly be opened open. I'm not sure which inspector you talked to, or which will be doing the inspection, but I know that each one has his/her own personal approach to the inspection. Some will look closer than others at the airplane. They'll all look closely at the paperwork!

I'm sure things will go just fine!
 
I agree with Joe. I respectfully request that the airplane be in the same condition as it would be for a Condition inspection, with all internal and external inpsection panels off/open, the upper and lower cowlings off, as well as the tail fairing. It's amazing to me how many loose and/or wrong bolts/nuts I have found on the control systems during the inspections I have performed. As a DAR I believe we are just one more step in insuring a safe aircraft, so why not look at everything? :)

Vic
 
How long before do you submit paperwork?

There is some paperwork that needs to be sent in before you schedule the FAA visit. I've read that you should start that about 3 months out. Is this true?

I called my local FSDO a few weeks ago and they were pretty clear that they wouldn't have any time to do the visit themselves. They gave me the contact info for a local DAR instead. The FAA guy did say to give them a call about a week before and they'd see what they could do. That puts me in a bad position. I can't just dump a DAR that I would be working with a week before his inspection.

The FSDO also told me that I would apply for a Repairman's Certificate at a later date. An earlier post in this thread said that he got it the same day as the Airworthiness Certificate. I guess this is just another thing that is kind of up to the whim of the FSDO.
 
Typically I need about 2 weeks notice. Lately I've been booked out almost a month, but I am slowly catching up. I'm about back to my 2 week back log.
And as Vic and Joe previously mentioned, I want the aircraft opened up as if for a condition inspection. I want to see each and every control linkage and fuel line hook-up.
And I also REGULARLY find short bolts, loose jam nuts, missing cotter pins, safety wire, etc. even after many people have looked it over.
There is nothing like another set of eyes.

As far as the repairman certificate, this is issued by the FSDO. But I do give a letter of recommendation, the application, and complete instructions for applying for the certificate.
 
There's no way ....

...that I'd let an FAA guy do the inspection if he doesn't even want the covers/cowl/tail fairing off! What kind of an inspection is that? Most of them know only paperwork, whereas guys like Vic, Mel and Joe Norris, are the best friends you have to ensure your safety.

Best,
 
I had a total of 7 people inspect the airplane today. 3 non-builders and 4 builders including 2 tech counselors. Had some really great input from several. A few easy fixes and a couple hours work. I will have a fellow A&P IA over in a couple of days.
 
Thanks for the kind words, Pierre. The 3 of us you mention, along with some others, have been doing our best to actually make the inspection a PLEASANT experience. It is not something to be dreaded. After all, most of you are accomplishing a life dream, so why should we even try to put a damper on it? WE want to make sure you, your family, and your friends, have a wonderful experience with your new airplane.

Vic
 
Tony,

Just have everything that can possibly be opened open. I'm not sure which inspector you talked to, or which will be doing the inspection, but I know that each one has his/her own personal approach to the inspection. Some will look closer than others at the airplane. They'll all look closely at the paperwork!

I'm sure things will go just fine!

Thanks Joe! I was actually going to hit you up for the inspection however I was at the FSDO for my CFI renewal and ended up talking to Peter Corroa and it turns out he is from Waukesha and said he'd like to do the inspection. I have an appointment Thursday AM to go over all the paperwork with him.
 
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Thanks Joe! I was actually going to hit you up for the inspection however I was at the FSDO for my CFI renewal and ended up talking to Peter Corroa and it turns out he is from Waukesha and said he'd like to do the inspection. I have an appointment Thursday AM to go over all the paperwork with him.

No problem Tony. Pete will be able to get to you a lot quicker than I could this time of year, and you won't have to pay him a nickel either! I'm sure everything will go fine for you, but if you end up with any questions please don't hesitate to contact me.
 
guys like Vic, Mel and Joe Norris, are the best friends you have to ensure your safety.

Best,

Thanks Pierre,
Our goal is to make sure that the airplane is as safe as it can be. That's not to say that we are "super" inspectors, but we've had a lot of experience finding things that are commonly over looked.
In my 11 years and over 800 aircraft, I've had only one individual argue with me over what I could or could not deny a certificate for. He finally saw the light and corrected the discrepancies.
 
Okay, my plane is done! Yippeee! I have my FAA inspection scheduled for Monday the 14th. I just emailed him to see if he was available sooner. We'll see. He mentioned that he "might be able to do is sooner".

He made put put down "25nm radius from UES" on my test flying sheet. I want to get more than that. I asked for "southeastern Wisconsin". Would I be pushing my luck to ask for some more area for testing?
 
Not at all!

Would I be pushing my luck to ask for some more area for testing?

I don't think that you would be out of line at all, asking for a larger flight test area. The flight test area should be based partially on the speed of the aircraft. I typically give a 75 nautical mile radius for RV-9.

You certainly won't get more if you don't ask. Be sure to discuss it before the inspection date, because by that time, he will already have the operating limitations typed up.
 
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Would I be pushing my luck to ask for some more area for testing?

I would definitely ask! Also, I would consider offsetting your flight test area rather than centering it on UES. No sense in having the whole of metropolitan Milwaukee within your flight test area when you can't fly over it anyway. I'd center the flight test area somewhere west of UES so that you have more usable airspace to test in. You don't have to use a circle or radius either. You can call out the boundaries by Lat/Long points or other identifiable markers and make the test area any shape you want. Get out a sectional and draw what you'd like on it and send it in with your application. Then negotiate something that works for both you and the FSDO.

If you want to stick with a radius, ask for a 30 nm radius of Watertown airport. That will put UES on the eastern side of the circle and give you all kinds of room to fly to the west, northwest, and southwest of UES, and would also get you Hartford, West Bend, Juneau, East Troy, and Blackhawk as other airports to visit.
 
I don't think that you would be out of line at all, asking for a larger flight test area. The flight test area should be based partially on the speed of the aircraft. I typically give a 75 nautical mile radius for RV-9.

You certainly won't get more if you don't ask. Be sure to discuss it before the inspection date, because by that time, he will already have the operating limitations typed up.


Thanks Mel, just got off the phone with my inspector. He said he didn't realize that the cruise speed was so fast. He said he would look into the "guidance" and adjust as necessary.
 
And like Joe said...

If you request a "radius", it doesn't have to be centered on your home airport as long as your airport is within the test area. I also issue this kind of flight test area regularly because around here DFW airspace often takes up almost half of the area.
 
I sent an email request for an "elongated box" We'll see what happens. He said he'd let me know by tomorrow afternoon.

The Milwaukee FSDO is pretty easy to work with so I am sure they'll do what they can.
 
As a data point, i got a 50 nm radius approved by the Milwaukee FSDO.

FYI, I corrected EVERY item that you and Glen pointed out on your inspection. Since it was early in the day when you guys came, I will have to pay up with some of Wisconsin's finest at a later date.
 
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