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  #11  
Old 09-04-2021, 10:32 PM
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Pilot135pd Pilot135pd is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Folks can knock Garmin for many things but a big part of their success is their dealer network and support, they treat their customers and dealers very well so that keeps the food chain happy.
Garmin might want to keep customers happy but I call BS on Garmin dealers wanting to keep customers happy. They only want to keep THEIR customers happy even though Garmin's policy is that all dealers have to provide warranty no matter who sold it or who installed, but that doesn't happen in the real world and I've been dealing with that for the last few months.
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Sadly sold my RV-8 however still trying to enjoy life by developing an airport with FREE campsites for pilots to enjoy www.facebook.com/VacaMooAirport/ & flying a C-177 while waiting for the RV15 !

Exempt by 3 out of the 10 ways but I still donated.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2021, 07:22 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot135pd View Post
Garmin might want to keep customers happy but I call BS on Garmin dealers wanting to keep customers happy. They only want to keep THEIR customers happy even though Garmin's policy is that all dealers have to provide warranty no matter who sold it or who installed, but that doesn't happen in the real world and I've been dealing with that for the last few months.
Maybe some additional details would be helpful rather than painting all dealers with that brush.
Warranty on LRU's is one thing, warranty on "installation" belongs to the installing dealer.
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Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 2000+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2021, 08:33 AM
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Pilot135pd Pilot135pd is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Walt View Post
Maybe some additional details would be helpful rather than painting all dealers with that brush.
Warranty on LRU's is one thing, warranty on "installation" belongs to the installing dealer.
Of course another dealer doesn't want to correct someone else's installation mistakes, that's not the problem. I didn't paint ALL dealers the same, just the 5 or 6 different ones I called who all said the same thing.
__________________
Sadly sold my RV-8 however still trying to enjoy life by developing an airport with FREE campsites for pilots to enjoy www.facebook.com/VacaMooAirport/ & flying a C-177 while waiting for the RV15 !

Exempt by 3 out of the 10 ways but I still donated.

Last edited by Pilot135pd : 09-05-2021 at 08:36 AM.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2021, 09:06 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Pilot135pd View Post
Of course another dealer doesn't want to correct someone else's installation mistakes, that's not the problem. I didn't paint ALL dealers the same, just the 5 or 6 different ones I called who all said the same thing.
If you don't feel comfortable posting the details please feel free to email me, I still feel like you are saying Garmin dealers won't support you.
I'm actually not far from you and am curious about this, 5 or 6 dealers telling you the same thing, perhaps your situation is something unique that they are not comfortable working on? (one example I can think of is support for G900X which no one wants to deal with due to unique system/knowledge reqmnts).
Another example may be asking me to work on a Cirrus that has Garmin installed, I would tell you sorry I am unable because I don't have the knowledge or experience on that system to be effective (I could run the bill up pretty high just getting educated), does that make me a dealer that won't support you?
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Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 2000+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154

Last edited by Walt : 09-05-2021 at 09:28 AM.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2021, 10:01 AM
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Pilot135pd Pilot135pd is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post
If you don't feel comfortable posting the details please feel free to email me, I still feel like you are saying Garmin dealers won't support you.
I'm actually not far from you and am curious about this, 5 or 6 dealers telling you the same thing, perhaps your situation is something unique that they are not comfortable working on? (one example I can think of is support for G900X which no one wants to deal with due to unique system/knowledge reqmnts).
Another example may be asking me to work on a Cirrus that has Garmin installed, I would tell you sorry I am unable because I don't have the knowledge or experience on that system to be effective (I could run the bill up pretty high just getting educated), does that make me a dealer that won't support you?
Those examples you mention are valid reasons not to work on a plane. Installing and removing a G5 takes less than 5 minutes to replace a warranty battery. I got quotes from 5 dealers and none of them would charge less than $125. Garmin told me any A&P can replace the battery so I did it under their supervision. Took less than 5 minutes.

Now Garmin told me the G5 battery they sent me is also bad and after my troubleshooting (electronics has been my hobby since I was a teenager and I've been an amateur radio Extra class, still active today, since a teenager plus my first job in the Air Force was electronics fixing radars) I sent them videos and pictures and they agreed with me and concluded the G5 is also bad and needs the Mod1 so they will swap my less than 6 month old G5 but it needs to be shipped to a Garmin dealer. So more calls to dealers and more charges just to receive the G5 in the mail and give it to me.
__________________
Sadly sold my RV-8 however still trying to enjoy life by developing an airport with FREE campsites for pilots to enjoy www.facebook.com/VacaMooAirport/ & flying a C-177 while waiting for the RV15 !

Exempt by 3 out of the 10 ways but I still donated.

Last edited by Pilot135pd : 09-05-2021 at 10:04 AM.
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2021, 11:32 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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You make some good points. I can see it from both sides and the certified world offers some additional challenges compared to EAB. If it was EAB Garmin can give you an RMA and you can handle it yourself, in the certified world equip exchanges must go thru a dealer.

So from your statement I 'assume' none of the dealers you asked for quotes installed the G5?

This is where folks underestimate the value of supporting their local avionics shop/dealer, if your buddy AP and you install a G5 that your purchased from ACS for example, then when something goes wrong you want your local dealer to spend time on it and fix it for free, well you get the idea (I see a lot of this). However you may have purchased the airplane with the G5 already installed by another dealer across the country so I get that too.

Your local dealer is in a lose/lose, once he goes down the road of a 'simple' repair like replacing the G5 battery, now all of a sudden he 'owns' the job and has to get you a new G5 because the battery he just installed didn't work, now he's 100% working for free, so a 1 hour labor charge to get involved is not so bad really. And then maybe you start developing that relationship by spending $125?

When it comes to warranty repairs we generally all lose one way or another, just a fact, but.... if you have supported him in the past he's likely to jump thru hoops to keep you coming back. I have a customer who brings me his RV8 to work on, he also has an Evolution with G900X, guess what, I helped him with some G900 issues even though I spent hours working on it for free, why... because I considered him a 'good' customer.
If I install your Garmin panel it's not cheap, but now you will get 100% support from me, guaranteed, what's that worth?

That's just the way the world works.

PS: nothing takes 5 min, I know that's an old saying but the reality is after figuring out what needs to be done, doing the job and then doing the paperwork there is no such thing as a 5 min job

And there are not that many of us small avionics shops around anymore, can you guess why? (hint: it not because we are all getting rich and retiring), so supporting us isn't such a bad thing.

PPS: back to the original poster, if you think Garmin is tough to deal with try to find a BK dealer willing to work on your TT AP!
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)

EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 2000+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154

Last edited by Walt : 09-05-2021 at 12:02 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2021, 12:19 PM
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Pilot135pd Pilot135pd is offline
 
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Location: Vaca Moo Airport - TA37 in East TEXAS
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Yep, I bought the plane with the G5s already installed in another state and I ended up not installing any autopilot, the Cardinal flys great trimmed up so no need for it.

I guess my mindset has always been since back when I owned my communication company (I later sold it to Sprint) and now with my airport, is that I should do what I can to develop relationships, not my clients, because one good client will bring more, something Motorola used to teach us in their company training and it reduced the cost of customer acquisition.

That's why all my facilities are free to use by all of my visitors. I understand not everyone thinks that way either and some try to become wealthy with each customer, that's just not me.
__________________
Sadly sold my RV-8 however still trying to enjoy life by developing an airport with FREE campsites for pilots to enjoy www.facebook.com/VacaMooAirport/ & flying a C-177 while waiting for the RV15 !

Exempt by 3 out of the 10 ways but I still donated.
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