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riviting

They work fine, but once I got my pneumatic squeezer with the standard, longeron and no-hole yokes, I hardly ever used the hand squeezer. Pricey, but if you're doing a complete build with thousands of rivets, well worth it. Seemed like you have better control with the pneumatic since you're not using much muscle force which can easily wobble the squeezer during the process, and once you get the hang of 'feathering' the controls mistakes are pretty rare.

Also highly recommend the DRDT-2 for better control of the dimpling process, again, pricey but worth it considering the overall expense of the project

Lots of good videos on the Kitplanes site that I wish I'd watched before building :)
 
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I have an opposite opinion of pneumatic vs manual.

I've never used a "regular" manual squeezer, only the Cleaveland one (this one https://www.cleavelandtool.com/collections/all/products/main-squeeze-model-22). I've been told it is easier to use, and I believe it :D

I bought it because I had a couple of close calls and mini-disasters using the pneumatic one. My main issue with pneumatic is that there is no room for mistake.

There are two scenarios where I had troubles guaranteeing the outcome:

1. Riveting various ribs and spars together. Generally, there is some access, but there are all kinds of flanges and other ribs you need to carefully work around. Or maybe there are some other shop heads sticking that a die will happily grab onto while squeezing.

2. Dimpling in the tight corners where you need to "pre-squeeze" first in order for dimples to fit (ends of the ribs, for example).

I tried to feather the trigger, but I wasn't able to master it. There is still some small chance that my finger will twitch at the wrong moment. And the cost of mistake is kind of high (figure eight hole or smashed flange or something like that). In some places I even removed the spring from the squeezer to position it over the hole, which is both not very safe and also cumbersome.

So, I bought the Main Squeeze and I loved it. Even for AD4 rivets the force is tolerable. Yes, usually it does require an extra hand, but it's less of an issue for larger parts. Also, in a pinch, if I don't have a helper, I can push one handle against the table (or even against my belly :D).

I started using it more and more, and now I don't even bother setting up the pneumatic one most of the time (unless I need to mass produce a line of dimples / rivets). I also found that I don't have to set it up perfectly. I guesstimate the dies to use, start squeezing, and if they are too tight, I will see shop head becoming too flat and I can stop at that moment. With pneumatic one, you can't really err on the "tight" size.

Oh, and also the pneumatic one I have has a trigger safety (you need to slide the trigger "up" before you are able to press it) which I disabled early on. I just wasn't able to hold the thing (it's kind of heavy), keep it perfectly positioned over the rivet and then slide and press the trigger simultaneously. Which is also a safety issue. Again, likely a skill issue.

So, in the end, for me, the end result of using manual one over the pneumatic is:

* It is safer
* It is easier to set up
* It is actually smaller and in some cases can reach the places where pneumatic won't fit (although, I think, I had cases where opposite was true as well...)
* The downside is that on average I need one more hand
* Doing dozens of AD4 rivets is tiring
 
I also prefer to use human powered tools because I get feedback from them. If it doesn’t feel right, I don’t squeeze, or hammer, or drill…I reason that the bigger, heavier, more powerful the tool, the farther the human is from the work.

:cool:
 
Synergy Air (the builder assist people) also has a very good fundamentals/intro building course, that I can recommend.
 
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I completed my RV-10 using both a pneumatic squeezer and the Cleaveland Tools Main Squeeze hand squeezer, as well as a DRDT-2 for dimpling. I would not have given up any of these tools!

I have never used the pneumatic squeezer to dimple. For that I typically use either the DRDT-2 or the Main Squeeze. By holding the Main Squeeze in a bench vice upright at a slight angle, it becomes easy to use as a dimpler, with one hand for the Main Squeeze handle and the other for the item being dimpled. Much easier to quickly set up for a couple of quick dimples than the DRDT-2.

My first choice for riveting is the pneumatic squeezer, as it is very repeatable and I find does the best job. Of course, for many locations this won't work and a rivet gun with a bucking bar is called for. On some occasions I found that the Main Squeeze was the best way to get to a few rivets, but most were installed with either the pneumatic squeezer or driven with a gun.

I do highly recommend the Main Squeeze over any other hand squeezer. It uses the same yokes as my pneumatic squeezer, so this interchangeability is useful, and I find it easier to use than the generic squeezers.

I also recommend gaining some experience in the Synergy Air class, as well as the EAA SportAir workshops.
 
If I was to do another build, I'd look at the Numatix hydraulic/pneumatic rivet squeezer. The small size of the business end looks like it would fit into places that a standard squeezer wouldn't and the foot pedal leaves you with both hands to position the tool and hold the work.

At $758 it seems about the same price as a a standard pneumatic squeezer, (unless I'm missing something)

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/cata...MIuNKRj9-p-wIVeHxvBB0BrQsJEAQYBCABEgKGA_D_BwE
 
The Numatix Rivet sqeezer is a very versatile, quality tool that you have good control when squeezing rivets. The Cleveland Hand Squeezer is also a high quality tool and much easier to use than some other brands. I have had a poor quality hand squeezer and the stock pneumatic squeezer . I wouldn’t waste money buying inferior tools like them again. The extra money paid for for the first two tools I mentioned, is worth it. Both squeezers have their place during construction.
 
I have the cleveland tools pneumatic squeezer and the DRDT2. so far so good. no hand squeezers...if i had one it would probably come in useful for those odd jobs rather than setting up the pneumatic squeezer however i have very fine control with the cleveland squeezer and have had no issues with botched holes. i have had a couple of scares but now approach every hole carefully and calculated....i always insert the male end for dimpling wherever possible. I use the DRDT where ever possible....I squeeze every rivet with the pneumatic squeezer that i can get to with 5 yokes available. lovely repeatability. I break out the sioux 2x for all 3/32 rivets I cannot squeeze and the 3x for the 1/8.

If you get a main squeeze im sure it would be awesome and id love to have one....however i wouldn't want to build a plane without my pneumatic squeezer....its the old story...buy quality....learn to use it properly and practice makes perfect. pick your poison.
 
visit another builder or EAA chapter in Northern MI

After a couple of screw ups and head scratching on my kit I found another sheet metal plane builder close by. Spending some time in his shop saved me a ton of heartburn trying to figure it all out on my own. Lots of resources as others have mentioned. I met a good friend that day, started a much accelerated learning curve and it only cost me a 6 pack and some gas money. We helped each other with the needed 2 person riveting down the road as the projects grew. Before this, I didn't even know the correct question to ask to get the right answer on the forums.

The RV White pages that Doug has on the left side of the home page is a good place to start looking up folks closer to you in the Traverse City area. The EAA website is another to locate an EAA chapter. Hanging around a local airport if they have mechanics there can pay off too.

You can buy oversized rivets. The trick is using them where it isn't going to compromise sound mechanics of the structure overall.

after 2 botched rivets my hole may be oversize, can I buy over size rivets
 
Oversize rivets

after 2 botched rivets my hole may be oversize, can I buy over size rivets

Short answer is yes. Check Spruce for 1097 rivets.
Longer answer is it matters where. Post a photo.
Lots of very skilled builers on VAF can help.
Officially, Vans is the authoritative source.
 
after 2 botched rivets my hole may be oversize, can I buy over size rivets

There are several options (assuming your rivet size is AN426AD3). In all cases you need to watch for the edge distance.

1. You can use the next size rivet AN426AD4 if you have edge distance and don't worry about aesthetics.
2. You can use a "repair" NAS1241AD3 rivet. It's advantage over somewhat better known NAS1097 ("oops") rivet is that NAS1241 is only 1/64" oversize. They are a bit harder to find in small quantities (compared to NAS1097), but you can get them here: https://flyboyaccessories.com/product/mini-oops-rivets-sold-by-the-ounce.
3. You can use NAS1097AD4 rivet (commonly referred as "oops" rivets). The shank size will be the same as AN426AD4, but the head will be AN426AD3 (so you keep your dimple).
4. You can pre-squeeze the rivet to make it "fatter", then put it in the hole. I know some folks do it, but I am not an engineer to tell how wrong is that. The rivet will fill the hole, but will it be less strong because of fatigue due to more squeezing? I don't know.

btw, there is also NAS1242 rivet which is slightly oversized AN470 rivet (universal head). Could be useful for messed up AN470AD4 holes. Those I wasn't able to find in small quantities, so I bought the whole pound of them (which is fine -- get long ones & you can cut them with a rivet cutter).
 
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