VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

-POSTING RULES
-Advertise in here!
- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

Keep VAF Going
w/a Donation






VAF on Twitter:
@VansAirForceNet

  #1  
Old 05-19-2023, 12:20 PM
Kmdpilot Kmdpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Bend
Posts: 32
Default RV12 ULS SLSA for flying club

Hi all, first off, thanks for all the great feedback and info on this forum.
The question I have now is about the RV12 used in a flying club. I know the SLSA is possible and I read an article from AOPA that the SLSA and E/AB can be leased by a flying club but weirdly the ELSA cannot. I guess the club can buy the plane itself and use it in the club since they are not renting or hiring out the plane and the members of the non profit are considered "owners" as club members. But I guess if I bought a plane, I could only lease it to the club if it is SLSA or E/AB?
But that aside, my question is about the fuel. Sure, we can us 100LL which is available at the airport. It sounds like the easiest option. The airport does not carry mogas. Plus reading here, it sounds like this time of year can be hit or miss regarding winter blend fuels vs summer blends. Right now, we can have 30 degree nights and upper 80 degree days with a DA of 6000 ft. Can imagine a winter blend might run into some vapor lock issues later in peak of the day?
That said, what are some of your thoughts on this? Stick with 100LL, find a way to get mogas? I guess the club members could just have cans they fill up and bring to the airport when they want to fly. I am pretty sure the airport would not want us storing fuel cans in the hangar.
Lets here your thoughts.
Thanks in advance.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-19-2023, 06:34 PM
Piper J3's Avatar
Piper J3 Piper J3 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Hinckley, Ohio
Posts: 2,986
Default

I’ll chime in here…. I think the biggest thing with regard to multiple pilots flying an airplane is to ensure that everyone has a complete understanding, not only of the POH, but specifically the operating limitations for the RV-12 equiped with Rotax 912 engine. Everyone needs to have a complete and thorough understanding that the tightly-cowled engine is prone to Vapor Lock. I know of what I speak. Two years ago, I had Vapor Lock on climb-out. I’m lucky to be here to tell the story. See… https://vansairforce.net/community/s...ght=vapor+lock
__________________
-
Jim Stricker - EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC N86203
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub N6841H
Bought Flying RV-12 #120058 Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 890

LSRM-A Certificate 2016 for RV-12 N633CM
Special Thanks... EJ Trucks - USN Crew Chief A-4 Skyhawk
MJ Stricker (Father - CFI) - USAAF 1st Lt. Captain B-17H
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-19-2023, 07:05 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 9,113
Default

I’m not a lawyer, but I think you misunderstand something. The owner of an EAB absolutely cannot lease it to others. (No use for compensation or hire). If the club itself owns it, and has an arrangement to make it available to its members (but not ‘held out’ to the general public), I think that’s okay. But no way you can own it and lease it out to someone else.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-20-2023, 09:39 AM
Kmdpilot Kmdpilot is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Bend
Posts: 32
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
I’m not a lawyer, but I think you misunderstand something. The owner of an EAB absolutely cannot lease it to others. (No use for compensation or hire). If the club itself owns it, and has an arrangement to make it available to its members (but not ‘held out’ to the general public), I think that’s okay. But no way you can own it and lease it out to someone else.
https://www.aopa.org/~/media/Files/A...Flying%20Clubs

I see where my mistake was. I thought it was weird, but the club itself I guess can lease it to the members of the club? At least according to AOPA. Personally leasing a plane experimental or not to a club just seems fraught with liability.

Last edited by Kmdpilot : 05-20-2023 at 09:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-20-2023, 03:53 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 9,113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kmdpilot View Post
https://www.aopa.org/~/media/Files/A...Flying%20Clubs

I see where my mistake was. I thought it was weird, but the club itself I guess can lease it to the members of the club? At least according to AOPA. Personally leasing a plane experimental or not to a club just seems fraught with liability.
This is another example of why I quit sending aopa money years ago. This article is simply wrong. If you are the owner of an EAB you may not use it for compensation or hire, with only one very limited exception that I know of. The owner may not lease it to a flying club (unless, of course, there is zero compensation involved!), or anyone. Now, if the club is the owner, it may have a cost sharing arrangement with its members. Don’t say ‘lease’. It may not hold itself out to the public.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-20-2023, 04:12 PM
DHeal DHeal is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Windsor, California
Posts: 1,056
Default

Before you go too far, see if anyone will insure such an operation at an acceptable cost.
__________________
David Heal - Windsor, CA (near Santa Rosa)
EAA #23982 (circa 1965) - EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor; CFI - A&I
RV-12 E-LSA #120496 (SV w/ AP and ADS-B 2020) - N124DH flying since Feb 2014 - 1,360+ hours (as of Sept 2023)!
VAF donation through June 2024.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-20-2023, 04:21 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 11,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
This is another example of why I quit sending aopa money years ago. This article is simply wrong. If you are the owner of an EAB you may not use it for compensation or hire, with only one very limited exception that I know of. The owner may not lease it to a flying club (unless, of course, there is zero compensation involved!), or anyone. Now, if the club is the owner, it may have a cost sharing arrangement with its members. Don’t say ‘lease’. It may not hold itself out to the public.
Yeah, I dropped AOPA after over 50 years of membership because of miss-leading information like this and doubling their dues.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century. Over 1,100 certifications accomplished. Discount for Veterans, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1, Lifetime EAA.
Recipient of EAA Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:40 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.