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Garmin? Team X introduces the G5 electronic flight instrument

G5 working!

Purchased a G5 over-the-counter at Oshkosh, and finished the installation this afternoon. Replaced the Attitude Indicator on my panel. Kept original altimeter and airspeed instruments. VFR only for me.

Test flown and very happy!!! My VSI had died sometime ago, and it's great to see 1500 fpm climb while departing the hot afternoon runway!

Carl
 
I received my G5 ordered at OSH 2016 and have gone back and forth of what type of GPS to use to send signal to the G5 over RS232.

Here is one scenario. Will this "serial data passthrough" feature of my Garmin 696 work when going through the GDL 39 3D as depicted? The same signal line would feed the GTR 200 in parallel.

RV3%20Schematic%20GDL39%20W%20696.jpg


And out of curiosity would the GDL 39 3D show attitude on the GPSMAP 696 through the "Garmin Data Transfer" protocol?

Jim
 
I received my G5 ordered at OSH 2016 and have gone back and forth of what type of GPS to use to send signal to the G5 over RS232.

Here is one scenario. Will this "serial data passthrough" feature of my Garmin 696 work when going through the GDL 39 3D as depicted? The same signal line would feed the GTR 200 in parallel.

RV3%20Schematic%20GDL39%20W%20696.jpg


And out of curiosity would the GDL 39 3D show attitude on the GPSMAP 696 through the "Garmin Data Transfer" protocol?

Jim

Hello Jim,

Yes, the GDL 39 3D pass through serial port should work with this wiring to provide NMEA and VHF Out data to the G5/GTR200.

The aera 660/795/796 portables will display attitude data from the GDL 39 3D, but the GPSMAP 695/696 will not.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Even if you don't have it in a G3X system, you may directly connect portable GPS units (using NMEA Out), GNS/GTN units (Aviation Out), and even SL30 and GNC255 NAV radios to the G5 RS-232 port to provide navigation information to the G5.

I am going to be installing a pair of G5's in an RV-6 that has an SL30 installed and no panel mounted GPS. What features will I get when connected to the SL30? Can this replace my current CDI? Is there a way to get DME?
 
Jesse, while your waiting for the Garmin guys to chime in, I'll take a stab at this: I think you'll have VOR/LOC/ILS from your SL30 and if you set up the second G5 to default to the HSI mode, that will be your new CDI. Of course, both G5's have internal WAAS GPS so you will probably want some kind of portable navigator like the Garmin 660 which will give you enroute GPS (no approaches), and I would try to pick up a GA 26C antenna on eBay for around $50 or so (for the G5) to enhance your attitude and enroute GPS. I mounted my G5 antenna on the glareshield. The portable navigator should take care of your DME requirements would be my guess. I'm sure Steve will set me straight if I'm off base here. :)

I have the SL30 on my -6 with the G3X and G5, works well.
 
Of course, both G5's have internal WAAS GPS so you will probably want some kind of portable navigator like the Garmin 660 which will give you enroute GPS (no approaches), and I would try to pick up a GA 26C antenna on eBay for around $50 or so (for the G5) to enhance your attitude and enroute GPS.

I promise I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I want to clarify something for those that find this thread in the future. Neither the Garmin 660 nor the G5 with an external antenna will give you a legal enroute IFR GPS. You would continue to file/fly as /U or whatever but you could put "VFR GPS onboard" in the remarks and the controllers MIGHT give you headings to fly direct to with a wink. A portable GPS (or G5) will NOT substitute DME.

To have a legal enroute GPS or to substitute DME, you need a GPS that's meets TSO C129 (A2).

KF
 
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Garmin G5

Steve I have a G5 installed and am trying to set the V speeds and airspeed colored tape. Can you tell me were I would configure these. I looked in the
configuration page and didn't see any option.
Bill
 
Steve I have a G5 installed and am trying to set the V speeds and airspeed colored tape. Can you tell me were I would configure these. I looked in the
configuration page and didn't see any option.
Bill

Hello Bill,

It is always best to contact us directly by email for customer support so we can communicate more efficiently, but here goes...

If you are installing the G5 with a G3X or G3X Touch system you can't manually set the airspeed bands and V speeds since these will automatically transfer over from the G3X system.

If you are installing the G5 as a standalone device (see configuration page for Device Information), the setup for the airspeed tape is under the configuration section labeled "Airspeed".

This Airspeed configuration section is hidden if you are installing the G5 with a G3X system since the settings are synchronized.

Thanks,
Steve
 
My thoughts on the G5

I installed the G5 in my -4 about 2 months ago and overall, I love it, but it has one dissapointing limitation. I bought it primarily to have an attitude indicator, which I lacked on the panel. I am using it as as a stand alone instrument, as there is little room for a larger efis on the small -4 panel and not in my budget at the moment.

The good:
- The attitude indicator portion is awesome and works perfectly. Always spot on, even during aerobatics.
- The display is beautiful. Very readable and no issues whatsoever in direct sunlight.
- Instalation and callibration was very straightforward and easy. I used an inline 5 amp fuse on the power. Although making a harness would have been fairly simple, Aircraft Spruce made me one for $24...a great service if you don't have all the tools needed.
- The ability to add an autopilot in the future.
- Great capability for a very reasonable price
- Some have mentioned concern about the small size, but I find it very readable and no issue, even though I need reading glasses! The airspeed and altimeter numbers a nice abd big.

The one dissapointment:
- No ability to connect a magnatometer to get magnetic heading without using in conjunction with a G3. One part of a true 6-pack replacement that is missing. If you are flying into a class B/C airspace and the controller vectors you, it is magnetic heading not track. You would need to have another instrument or use the dreaded whiskey compass. I would have like to get a second G5 and use as an HSI, tied with a GPS navigator to enable basic instrument capability. Although I have no intention of flying IFR, it would be nice to have the capability for that rare occasion where I might need it. This is one capability, I would like to see them add to it (hope the Garmin guys are listening!).

One other note:
- Not sure if it is an issue with my specific unit or not, but I only get the track indication about 10% of the time. I don't have an external GPS antenna installed, as I thought with the big bubble canopy of the -4, there would be no issue using the internal GPS. The track scale doesn't show up, even when I don't have the GPS red X indication along the top of the display. I am going to purchase a -26C external antenna to see if it corrects the issue.

Overall, a fantastic instrument, well worth the money.

Zem
 
While I agree that the controllers are expecting a heading and are correcting for wind to get their desired track, but they also round to the nearest 5 or 10 degrees anyway, and often will give you a "ten degrees right" if the wind is stronger or weaker than they "calculated". Again, I understand what they are expecting, but I don't see the ground track number as a big issue.
 
The one dissapointment:
- No ability to connect a magnatometer to get magnetic heading without using in conjunction with a G3. One part of a true 6-pack replacement that is missing. If you are flying into a class B/C airspace and the controller vectors you, it is magnetic heading not track. You would need to have another instrument or use the dreaded whiskey compass. I would have like to get a second G5 and use as an HSI, tied with a GPS navigator to enable basic instrument capability. Although I have no intention of flying IFR, it would be nice to have the capability for that rare occasion where I might need it. This is one capability, I would like to see them add to it (hope the Garmin guys are listening!).

Seriously? They couldn't have had an ability to have magnetic heading without THEIR EFIS? That's lame. Nobody WANTS to use a whiskey compass for magnetic heading nor should pilots think "well, I'll fly GPS track and the controller can fix it." This just seems like a convenient way to "limit complexity" by requiring their other system for mag hdg.
 
G5 connected to 430W

Question for the Garmin team.

I have a G5 that is driven by a 430W using the #2 serial port. Both units are set to MAPMX format. The lateral deviation indicator works fine but it never displays the vertical indicator. The software version in the 430W is about 5 years old. Could that be the problem?
 
I have a G5 that is driven by a 430W using the #2 serial port. Both units are set to MAPMX format. The lateral deviation indicator works fine but it never displays the vertical indicator. The software version in the 430W is about 5 years old. Could that be the problem?

Hello Tommy,

The MapMX RS-232 output from your GNS 430W provides sufficient information for VFR navigation only, and does not contain vertical deviation information. For full lateral/vertical navigation display with IFR CDI scaling and annunciations, you would need to install the GAD 29 ARINC 429 adapter unit, as is shown in Figure 1-36 of the current G5 Manual (rev C).

If you do already have the GAD 29 installed and configured correctly, the most common reason to not see vertical deviation information during an LPV or LNAV+V approach is that the ARINC 429 label for vertical deviation is not enabled on the GNS 430W. To check this, make sure the "VNAV" setting on the GNS 430W ARINC 429 output configuration page is set to "Enable Labels".

- Matt
 
+1 for interest in a magnetometer solution for the standalone G5.

I would also like it to "pass through" GPS guidance information it receives via CAN to its NEMA configured RS-232 output. I just installed a GPS-400W ARINC-429 to GAD-29 , CAN to the G5 which has NEMA-4800 output on RS-232 to a third party autopilot. The autopilot is receiving only GPS track information from the G5, not the guidance messages.

I used to use the GPSMAP-496 to drive the autopilot (and still use it to push COM frequencies to the GTR-200). Now that I have the 400W as the primary NAV source I would like to use it to drive the autopilot. The 400W coming from the certified airplane world doesn't want to talk with NEMA based devices but the G5 does and it has the course data from the 400W via the GAD-29.

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This is a great setup for the occasional IFR approach.

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G5 Wishlist

In the hopes there is a magnetometer in development (that is CAN bus capable?), I'd like to request an OAT option as well please. Coming from a GRT Mini AP, I really miss knowing locally where the icing level is, density altitude, true airspeed and as well as wind vector. I agree with previous posts that the screen is not expansive, so perhaps the additional fields could be made optional to reduce clutter. Another approach would be hide the additional fields and only display them at relevant thresholds (e.g. OAT is x degrees above freezing or crosswinds above x knots and y degrees).

I understand the primary purpose of the G5 is a back up instrument. However, it's also been described as a building block for those who wish to have a G3X system. In that context, having a standalone magnetometer (ideally with an OAT input) would make the HSI page behave as expected (for those who have two G5's installed) rather than being limited to depicting track only. For dual G5 installations, some repeated data fields could be used to display additional information provided by an OAT sensor (e.g. two ground speed displays are not required and the one on the PFD could be replaced with true airspeed).

Is it possible to display a G-meter on the G5? I'm assuming the ADAHRS is performing the calculation. I've gone with a Flight Data GT-50 (great instrument) for G, OAT and timing information. It's sub $200 including the OAT probe.

Thanks for bringing the G5 to market. Support, quick startup and AI accuracy during and after alignment are top notch.

Jeff
 
My understanding is that they are essentially the same unit however in the certified world the G5 can only be a primary instrument for attitude and play as secondary for other instruments such as airspeed. So in the certified world you can only replace the attitude/horizon indicator but have to leave other instruments in the panel. In the Experimental world you can use the G5 for the entire 6 pack if you choose to while flying VFR. IFR gets a bit more complicated but I don't think you were asking about that. I was told by one of the Garmin guys that essentially the guts are the same but used for different missions between certified and experimental markets.
 
Hello Tommy,

The MapMX RS-232 output from your GNS 430W provides sufficient information for VFR navigation only, and does not contain vertical deviation information. For full lateral/vertical navigation display with IFR CDI scaling and annunciations, you would need to install the GAD 29 ARINC 429 adapter unit, as is shown in Figure 1-36 of the current G5 Manual (rev C).

If you do already have the GAD 29 installed and configured correctly, the most common reason to not see vertical deviation information during an LPV or LNAV+V approach is that the ARINC 429 label for vertical deviation is not enabled on the GNS 430W. To check this, make sure the "VNAV" setting on the GNS 430W ARINC 429 output configuration page is set to "Enable Labels".

- Matt

Matt - similar question here - I have a 430W feeding data via ARINC 429 into my Dynon screens for the indication and coupling to the autopilot, and I have a G5 in the panel for a backup to the Dynon. Can I feed the G5 the ARINC data as well to display the lateral/vertical there also? I realize I can't feed the autopilot via the G5 (dynon servos), I'm just looking for a full IFR backup versus a simple attitude indicator.
 
I have a 430W feeding data via ARINC 429 into my Dynon screens for the indication and coupling to the autopilot, and I have a G5 in the panel for a backup to the Dynon. Can I feed the G5 the ARINC data as well to display the lateral/vertical there also?

Hello Greg,

Yes, the ARINC 429 outputs from your GPS can be connected to both the GAD 29 and to another device.

- Matt
 
Hello Greg,

Yes, the ARINC 429 outputs from your GPS can be connected to both the GAD 29 and to another device.

- Matt

So I can use one of the transmit pairs on the Arinc 429 to feed back to the 430W (or is that even needed? The 430W does not take direction from external sources, right?) and the other pair to feed the G5, correct?
 
So I can use one of the transmit pairs on the Arinc 429 to feed back to the 430W (or is that even needed? The 430W does not take direction from external sources, right?) and the other pair to feed the G5, correct?

Hello Greg,

It's not totally clear which ARINC 429 connections you are referring to here. It would probably be best to contact us at the email address below, so you can attach drawings of your particular setup.

- Matt
 
My understanding is that they are essentially the same unit however in the certified world the G5 can only be a primary instrument for attitude and play as secondary for other instruments such as airspeed. So in the certified world you can only replace the attitude/horizon indicator but have to leave other instruments in the panel. In the Experimental world you can use the G5 for the entire 6 pack if you choose to while flying VFR. IFR gets a bit more complicated but I don't think you were asking about that. I was told by one of the Garmin guys that essentially the guts are the same but used for different missions between certified and experimental markets.

Thanks for your answer. Yes looking for more modern gauges.
So when I am right in understanding, for the case I keep the six pack and add the G5 I don't need the certified unit in a certified aircraft. I am right or not?
 
Your signature states Munich.

Unless you have any special German exceptions, my understanding is that we in EASA for a normal class aircraft are not allowed to install a fixed instrument even if you do not plan to formaly use it without it being approved or STCd. so for a normal class AC your only option is the limited but with STC, G5 version.

Thanks for your answers. Understand now the G5 STC version has less functionality as the experimental.

But what I do not understand is how uncertified engine monitors like J.P. instruments can be built in a certified aircraft without any STC?
From EASA someone has told me that it is possible in a addition to a single cylinder EGT/CHT gauge to have a engine monitor system installed in the aircraft without an STC.

So where is the difference, keeping the six pack and adding a non STC G5 in a certified aircraft just for backup reasons?
 
Engine monitors without STC

I know many pilots who own certified planes that have added technologies like engine monitors that do not have STCs for their planes but the key is that they DO NOT REMOVE the existing engine monitors that came with the plane. The new gauges just provided additional information and not a direct replacement.
The key is the "direct replacement". If you want to replace avionics in a certified plane then it must have an STC. However if you leave things alone, you can always add to the panel for additional info.
So back to your G5 question. I'm not sure if it is illegal or not but I would think you could add an Experimental G5 to your certified aircraft as long as you not replacing anything in the panel. As long as you leave your six pack alone and you have room in your plane to add a G5 then I'm not sure how that could be "illegal". . . but that's just my thoughts and I may be 100% incorrect.
 
Thanks for your answers. Understand now the G5 STC version has less functionality as the experimental.

But what I do not understand is how uncertified engine monitors like J.P. instruments can be built in a certified aircraft without any STC?
From EASA someone has told me that it is possible in a addition to a single cylinder EGT/CHT gauge to have a engine monitor system installed in the aircraft without an STC.

So where is the difference, keeping the six pack and adding a non STC G5 in a certified aircraft just for backup reasons?

The JPI EDM900/930 engine monitors have an EASA STC for certified aircraft - it's a validation of the FAA AML STC. Single non-mandatory instruments can be installed under CS-STAN. For the G5, I understand from Garmin that they are in the process of trying to get the FAA AML STC accepted by EASA but this is less straightforward than a standard STC as the G5 does have any TSO approval.
 
User Ezetom asked this in a separate thread. I have the same question so I thought I'd ask it here. It's a question of getting KX 155 display on the G5. He (and I now) ask:


"Does anyone know if there is an analogue to digital converter made to be able to connect the nav outputs of an older radio to display on a garmin G5?

Cheers!

Tom"
 
I have the same question. We're looking to swap out an old six pack with the G5, but I don't know if the G5 HSI mode will work with the KX 155. Does anyone know if this will be compatible?

Thanks!
 
I can't speak for Garmin, but very few of the new EFIS systems will talk to or listen to the KX155. I think the Aspen box has a converter, but no other units that are common in the RV community that I am awareness of. The best option there is a standard analog NAV display.
 
Another question

Saw this post about a CanBus short taking out the PFD/MFD. I wondered if the same would happen to a CanBus connected G5.

If the RS-232 connections are used, does this eliminate or mitigate this failure scenario?

I'm using a G5 in our new G3X touch panel and a neighbor is adding a G5 in place of a D-10 on his legacy G3X panel - so we both wondered what would happen to our displays and G5 in the event of a CanBus failure.

Sorry if this has been asked before.
 
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Saw this post about a CanBus short taking out the PFD/MFD. I wondered if the same would happen to a CanBus connected G5.

If the RS-232 connections are used, does this eliminate or mitigate this failure scenario?

I'm using a G5 in our new G3X touch panel and a neighbor is adding a G5 in place of a D-10 on his legacy G3X panel - so we both wondered what would happen to our displays and G5 in the event of a CanBus failure.

Sorry if this has been asked before.

There are backup RS232 links for the G3X system to keep critical systems talking in the event of a failure on the CAN Bus. This works well. I have tested it.

The G5 can operate as a completely independent backup if the primary system fails. If the CAN Bus is lost, the G5 keeps working you just don't have communication to the G3X system. You will lose the stuff that the G3X shares with the G5, HDG for instance will be replaced with TRK. You will also lose the ability for the G5 to share it's ADAHRS data with the G3X system if the G3X units fail.

Keep in mind that the G5 was designed as a stand alone backup. It does not need connection to any other data source to operate as an effective Air Data/Attitude backup.
 
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Question for the TEAM

In the G5 manual it clearly states the G5 is suitable for EITHER 14V DC OR 28V DC. Does this mean as it is written 14V OR 28V

Or is somewhere in between acceptable like the Dynon & MGL where 10V-30V range is acceptable ?

I'm not trying to light a hot seat , just trying to understand how critical the voltage tolerance and what the acceptable range for the G5 is.

Thanks in Advance
 
In the G5 manual it clearly states the G5 is suitable for EITHER 14V DC OR 28V DC. Does this mean as it is written 14V OR 28V

Or is somewhere in between acceptable like the Dynon & MGL where 10V-30V range is acceptable ?

I'm not trying to light a hot seat , just trying to understand how critical the voltage tolerance and what the acceptable range for the G5 is.

Thanks in Advance

Hello F1R,

Yes, the G5 manual specifies that the G5 may be installed in aircraft with either 14V or 28V systems.

The G5 passed the DO-160G Section 16 power input testing for Category B (14V/28V) equipment which requires that the unit be capable of operating over the voltage range of 10V to 32V.

Thanks,
Steve
 
This Saturday I finally got up in the air with my now G5 equipped Cozy3.

The wind gusty at around 19 knots but I still managed to perform my planned GPS triangulation flight to verify the airspeed part of the instrument. There is a 4 knots mismatch between the old instrument and the G5. After reviewing the G5 logs and using a spreadsheet I found here on the forum I feel confident in saying that my G5 airspeed indication is within one knot when running at 145kt indicated @ 2000feet, ISA -9 (QNH 1021).

One question regarding the logs, I found and tried an old 2012 G3X to .kml converter but using it for the G5 logs produces a file with almost no content. Is there a .kml(google earth) converter for the G5 logs?

Now I just need to convince the other owners to invest in a 660 and AP servos and controls ;)

Hello Control,

Good to hear you have your G5 operating in your Cozy and found it accurate.

The GSA 28 servos and GMC 307 control panel coupled to an Aera 660 navigator will make a great autopilot.

We are not aware of a parsing program for the G5 data log files, but as you know, they are text .csv (comma separated value) format, and may be viewed/graphed in popular spreadsheet programs.

Thanks,
Steve
 
I see reference to a certified version of the G5 HSI with a magntomiter for magnetic heading. Is this something coming to us none certified people? As an add on? If so when and at what cost?
 
I see reference to a certified version of the G5 HSI with a magntomiter for magnetic heading. Is this something coming to us none certified people? As an add on? If so when and at what cost?

Hello bignickey,

Yes, the GMU 11 magnetometer will be PMA/STC approved, but may be easily added to a G5 installation in a non-certified aircraft with a CAN bus extension (2 wires), power and ground. The V3.00 software supports remote magnetometer setup and calibration.

Brian covered pricing and availability in this posting.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=148127

Thanks,
Steve

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- No ability to connect a magnatometer to get magnetic heading without using in conjunction with a G3. One part of a true 6-pack replacement that is missing.
Zem

Is this still the case?
"The G5 also displays magnetic heading when paired with Garmin’s magnetometer, which can drive two G5 displays."
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...garmin-g5-dg/hsi-approved-certified-airplanes

I can't find any on-line manuals that describe hooking up a magnetometer directly into a G5 however
 
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G5 Softtware V3.20

Hello,

This spring has given us the opportunity to fly in a lot of turbulence, take data, and fine tune the attitude algorithms in the G5 to make them work even better in turbulence.

Nothing critical, but you might want to update to V3.20 when you get a chance.

Thanks,
Steve
 
GMU 11 calibration

I understand the G3x has some sort of calibration/verification procedure with the GMU11 installed. I am not finding such a post-installation checkout in G5 literature or in scanning G5 menus. I wonder how magnetic disturbances are detected/handled.
 
I understand the G3x has some sort of calibration/verification procedure with the GMU11 installed. I am not finding such a post-installation checkout in G5 literature or in scanning G5 menus. I wonder how magnetic disturbances are detected/handled.

Hello Chris,

You are not giving us much to go on here by not identifying which manual you are using and which software version you are using.

Page 80 of the Rev. E G5 installation manual explains the magnetic interference test.

You will want to install the current V3.20 G5 software. If your G5 software is very old it won't even know what a GMU 11 is.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Hello Chris,

You are not giving us much to go on here by not identifying which manual you are using and which software version you are using.

Page 80 of the Rev. E G5 installation manual explains the magnetic interference test.

You will want to install the current V3.20 G5 software. If your G5 software is very old it won't even know what a GMU 11 is.

Thanks,
Steve

I see the problem. I have an old version on the manual.
(Software is 3.20)
thanks,
Chris
 
A question on the capabilities of the G5 in certified aircraft:

At present, the STC permits the replacement of the primary AH or HSI with individual G5's - is there any plan to increase the scope of the STC to permit it to fulfil the role of ASI & Altimeter too?

As things stand, a Sandia SAI340 is TSO'd to replace everything except the HSI and only slightly dearer, but I'm sure most here would prefer to keep everything 'in house' so to speak with Garmin.
 
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I see the problem. I have an old version on the manual.
(Software is 3.20)
thanks,
Chris

Interference Test showed no problems. Calibration was easy.
I learned the magnetometer menu only appears on the G5 designated as primary.
 
Thanks, Steve.

One last question concerning the GTX 327 receiving RS232 data from the G5 instrument. You say to set the G5 serial port out (pin 5) to ALTITUDE ENCODER format. What should the GTX 327 serial data in (pin 19) be set to within the GTX RS232 INPUT Menu Page to use the G5 altitude encoding? GPS? ICARUS ALT? SHADIN ALT? REMOTE? Also, it looks like I can pass the same altitude data through the GTX to another device with the the GTX RS232 OUTPUT Menu Page.

Also, should there be a signal ground on the serial signal circuit wire from the G5 to the GTX or the GPSMAP 696 to GTR200? Maybe just a shield grounded on one end or both?

Thanks again. Based on our answers to my first set of questions in the last post I am proceeding with the GMC 307 and GSA 28's.

Jim

One correction at least on my gtx327. Instead of pin 19, use pin 2 RS232 in 2. Pin 19 is RS232 in 1. RS232 In 1 only has 3 selections in the configuration and Shadin Alt is not one of those. However the RS232 in 2 has many including Shadin Alt.
I have confirmed the G5 pin 5 output to the gtx327 pin 2 is a working combination.
Glad not to need a dedicated encoder !
 
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