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FAA Letter - Navworx

txshan130

Well Known Member
Looking thru my mail this afternoon and I have a letter from the FAA...heart rate always goes up a bit as I rarely have reason to receive letters from the FSDO.

Anyway, it goes on to say that they are reaching out to me because I have installed a Navworx ADS600-B and they would like to inspect my airplane and installation in order to gain more information about the Navworx units. After numerous attempts to contact Navworx, they have apparently not been granted access to the facility...

What say the masses?

Anyone else get the letter?

Bill (Navworx)?

Pretty sure I have no desire to let the FAA come inspect my plane...but curious to see what everyone thinks :)
 
Looking thru my mail this afternoon and I have a letter from the FAA...heart rate always goes up a bit as I rarely have reason to receive letters from the FSDO.

Anyway, it goes on to say that they are reaching out to me because I have installed a Navworx ADS600-B and they would like to inspect my airplane and installation in order to gain more information about the Navworx units. After numerous attempts to contact Navworx, they have apparently not been granted access to the facility...

What say the masses?

Anyone else get the letter?

Bill (Navworx)?

Pretty sure I have no desire to let the FAA come inspect my plane...but curious to see what everyone thinks :)

I got this on the Grumman List today. Maybe relevant -

Until today NavWorx had a long, detailed letter on its home page explaining the dispute with the FAA and asserting that the FAA was unfairly "sabotaging its business." Today the letter and any mention of the FAA's Notice of Proposed Rulemaking calling for an AD is gone. It is like the dispute never existed. They are advertising their products as FAA approved. So, while I have seen nothing definitive, it looks like NavWorx (and its customers) won.
Stay tuned.


But this was for a certified plane.
 
I would let them look at mine, but

I have a EXP and I am in Florida. Anything that would help get the Navworx issue resolved, I am for. (Cannot believe Navworx (Bill) position!!)

Ron
 
Let them come take a look

The only way the FAA is going to resolve the "pisxxxg contest" going on right now with the NavWorx system is for them to examine the system and determine whether it meets "standards." Since your's is not the exp system means it's probably correctly installed in a certificated airplane by an A&P. You've got an investment made into this system (as do a bunch of other folks) and if I were you I would want the issue resolved sooner rather than later.

I don't think NavWorx is going to survive and if they do they've just about ruined there customer base with their own actions. I know I've just about crossed them off as a possible ads-b solution for my RV because of the FAA problems and their responses (or lack there of) to their customers.

Try to salvage your investment and let the FAA look at it.
 
The only way the FAA is going to resolve the "pisxxxg contest" going on right now with the NavWorx system is for them to examine the system and determine whether it meets "standards." Since your's is not the exp system means it's probably correctly installed in a certificated airplane by an A&P. You've got an investment made into this system (as do a bunch of other folks) and if I were you I would want the issue resolved sooner rather than later.

I don't think NavWorx is going to survive and if they do they've just about ruined there customer base with their own actions. I know I've just about crossed them off as a possible ads-b solution for my RV because of the FAA problems and their responses (or lack there of) to their customers.

Try to salvage your investment and let the FAA look at it.

Actually...it's in an RV6.

They are asking for invoices, copies of installation sign-off, copy of Flight Manual Supplement, etc...
 
good chance they want to see what's actually inside that box :) (like what GPS is in there actually).. doubt that your install signoff is really important to them..
 
I posted on another thread that not only has Navworx removed the letter from their website, the prices went up $200
 
In lite of these recent events... navworx taking the letter from their site, the FAA wanting to have a look and not that I like any price increases but navworx raising prices all seems to indicate a little hint of sunshine on the horizion!
 
In lite of these recent events... navworx taking the letter from their site, the FAA wanting to have a look at an installation and not that I like any price increases but navworx raising prices.... could there be a little hint of sunshine on the horizion!
 
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In lite of these recent events... navworx taking the letter from their site, the FAA wanting to have a look and not that I like any price increases but navworx raising prices all seems to indicate a little hint of sunshine on the horizion!

Guessing that is indeed a good sign...
 
Looking thru my mail this afternoon and I have a letter from the FAA...heart rate always goes up a bit as I rarely have reason to receive letters from the FSDO.

Anyway, it goes on to say that they are reaching out to me because I have installed a Navworx ADS600-B and they would like to inspect my airplane and installation in order to gain more information about the Navworx units. After numerous attempts to contact Navworx, they have apparently not been granted access to the facility...

What say the masses?

Anyone else get the letter?

Bill (Navworx)?

Pretty sure I have no desire to let the FAA come inspect my plane...but curious to see what everyone thinks :)

A concern that I would have with the inspection is that the box is sealed with tamper tape, which will void any warranty if broken. At least my unit is sealed.

I didn't receive a letter, at least not yet. They may be looking for Texas folks since the issue originated out of the Forth Worth office.
 
You must fly the most.

I am guessing you were the last one to fly.....hahaha
They went to their logs, found the Navworx ADS-B signature and sent you the letter.

Looking thru my mail this afternoon and I have a letter from the FAA...heart rate always goes up a bit as I rarely have reason to receive letters from the FSDO.

Anyway, it goes on to say that they are reaching out to me because I have installed a Navworx ADS600-B and they would like to inspect my airplane and installation in order to gain more information about the Navworx units. After numerous attempts to contact Navworx, they have apparently not been granted access to the facility...

What say the masses?

Anyone else get the letter?

Bill (Navworx)?

Pretty sure I have no desire to let the FAA come inspect my plane...but curious to see what everyone thinks :)
 
I'm not sure I would want them inspecting beyond the ADSB on my experimental although I know of nothing that would create a problem . That's kinda like letting the tax man make a social visit to your farm . And again I pay all my property and income taxes. Why don't they just buy one. I'm sure that someone would sell theirs for the right price and since it only takes $85 to remove it. I'll sell them mine remove and ship it for $4500.00 I've even got a transmonSPE in the box I will include.

That would be a win win . I would buy a new one and the FAA could get the count down to 799 users.
 
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If they wanted to see the installation, I wouldn't have a problem with that However if they want to remove and open up the box for a look inside. A flat no would be my answer! Really don't believe they would even ask to do that! Bottom line here is this is a great news. Especially navworxs' price increase. That bodes well that they plan on being around awhile! Even with the price increase, Navworx units are still thousands less than their competition.
Happy things appear to be looking up!
 
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The letter is down from the web site, but nothing appears to available for sale, those pages come up blank here. I'll take a guess that a response from legal counsel.
Tim Andres
 
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The letter is down from the web site, but nothing appears to available for sale, those pages come up blank here. I'll take a guess that a response from legal counsel.
Tim Andres

That's strange. I just checked it again & all the models are listed. Although, I didn't try to buy anything.

Update: I just selected the "Buy Now" and the next page had the store images missing. I selected the link & the next page also had the product images missing.
 
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Another point of reference as to something has changed relative to the NavWorx situation:

I've tried to fill out the ADSB Performance Report Request a week ago and in the Equipment Manufacturer boxes, NavWorx wasn't on the list. I just checked again today, and now it is listed. I have the -600EXP in my RV4, and it is on the list too. I don't think it qualifies for the rebate program, at least that is what I was told by NavWorx in the beginning, but it was $600 cheaper than the 'certified' version. I'll still try for the rebate, but don't expect to get anywhere with that.
 
Another point of reference as to something has changed relative to the NavWorx situation:

I've tried to fill out the ADSB Performance Report Request a week ago and in the Equipment Manufacturer boxes, NavWorx wasn't on the list. I just checked again today, and now it is listed. I have the -600EXP in my RV4, and it is on the list too. I don't think it qualifies for the rebate program, at least that is what I was told by NavWorx in the beginning, but it was $600 cheaper than the 'certified' version. I'll still try for the rebate, but don't expect to get anywhere with that.

I had to rescind my rebate request last month...hoping I will have the chance to re-apply in the near future.
 
Looking thru my mail this afternoon and I have a letter from the FAA...heart rate always goes up a bit as I rarely have reason to receive letters from the FSDO.

Anyway, it goes on to say that they are reaching out to me because I have installed a Navworx ADS600-B and they would like to inspect my airplane and installation in order to gain more information about the Navworx units. After numerous attempts to contact Navworx, they have apparently not been granted access to the facility...

What say the masses?

Anyone else get the letter?

Bill (Navworx)?

Pretty sure I have no desire to let the FAA come inspect my plane...but curious to see what everyone thinks :)

The letter you received is indication the negotiations between FAA and Navworx to resolve the issues (whatever they are) are at standstill.

The FAA would like to verify the legitimacy of the product and Navworx refuses to permit it.

The matter remains as stupid today as it was before November 17 letter.

In effect, Navworx is assisting the FAA in causing its demise.
 
The letter you received is indication the negotiations between FAA and Navworx to resolve the issues (whatever they are) are at standstill.

I don't think so. There are many FAA offices that work on ADS-B issues. My impression is that these letters are not coming from the Ft Worth ACO, which is the office currently in discussions with NavWorx. The letters seem to be coming from various Flight Standards offices (FSDO). If I had to guess, I'd say they originate with the rebate office.

The FAA would like to verify the legitimacy of the product and Navworx refuses to permit it.

Not true. The FAA actions in September and October forced a stop to production. Now the FAA wants to inspect the production process, and NavWorx is unable (not unwilling) to comply. Also, I fail to see how inspecting an installation validates (or invalidates) the TSO approval of a manufactured article.

The matter remains as stupid today as it was before November 17 letter.

Agree (except it started in September with the rebate program).

In effect, Navworx is assisting the FAA in causing its demise.

Undetermined. The FAA doesn't really need any help with that. But as they say, it ain't over until the fat lady sings, and she hasn't even warmed up yet.

David Bunin
 
Well David, your point of view is a bit more gracious than mine.

You probably have not sent Navorx $1,891.15 with nothing to show for it.
 
David, My gut feeling is that this has been a hugh bump in the road for Navworx and at some point they will stand behind your $1900. I certainly understand your frustration. I have the 600EXP installed just a couple months before it all hit the fan. I'm upset as well. It just seems that with the scathing letter from their site gone and price increases in place they are going to survive this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for us all!
 
You're right, David. I have a LOT more than that invested in NavWorx. Add a zero, at least.

But I still have some hope.

David Bunin
 
So the approval has been rescinded and they aren't shipping the goods, is Navworx refunding money when requested?

Jim
RV9a
Adsb less so far and wanting a good solution
 
So the approval has been rescinded and they aren't shipping the goods, is Navworx refunding money when requested?

The TSO has been temporarily suspended, it has not been revoked. Once a few things get ironed out, the TSO can easily be reinstated.

I don't know about refunds, but if you did not receive merchandise that you ordered, you can just dispute the charge with your credit card company.

David Bunin
 
David, My gut feeling is that this has been a hugh bump in the road for Navworx and at some point they will stand behind your $1900. I certainly understand your frustration. I have the 600EXP installed just a couple months before it all hit the fan. I'm upset as well. It just seems that with the scathing letter from their site gone and price increases in place they are going to survive this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for us all!

Dig around a bit on the web site, the letter is gone but so is the product.
There is nothing for sale there, the phones and emails are not answered, there is no update posted. These are not the actions of a company that hopes to continue.
I hope David and others who have a purchase in process get their money back, but I doubt it will happen.
I hate to say it, but this ship is already sunk, even if something gets worked out re: the AD and FAA difficulties, the reputation of the business is ruined at this point. Who would cut a check to them at this point? I wouldn't.
I think about all we can hope is the EXP model is left off the AD and we continue to use it unsupported, or someone comes along and buys up the pieces and sells under a different brand.

Tim Andres
 
Dig around a bit on the web site, the letter is gone but so is the product.
There is nothing for sale there, the phones and emails are not answered, there is no update posted. These are not the actions of a company that hopes to continue.
I hope David and others who have a purchase in process get their money back, but I doubt it will happen.
I hate to say it, but this ship is already sunk, even if something gets worked out re: the AD and FAA difficulties, the reputation of the business is ruined at this point. Who would cut a check to them at this point? I wouldn't.
I think about all we can hope is the EXP model is left off the AD and we continue to use it unsupported, or someone comes along and buys up the pieces and sells under a different brand.

Tim Andres

I was just talking to my wife about this. About even if they get things fixed, I would be very hesitant to buy from them based on this example.
 
My opinion - -

I don't believe any of us know 100% what all the facts are. We will have to wait. I believe we will find out within the next 6 months. Until then, I think we can continue to get the benefits the units provide. Yes, I am speaking positively, because Bill took care of me when my first box started to fail. Current one is working great.
 
The problem with Navworx is their company is based around the ADS-B bubble. Once 2020 actually hits and the last guy to install a retrofit box does it, what is their business strategy? They have no other products and will not be in business long enough to provide support when you need it.

At least the other companies (at the higher price point) will be providing support 10 years down the road. Cheaper is NOT always better. I'm putting in FreeFlight's box, but any of the others, Dynon, Avidyne, Garmin, L3 would be a better option in my view. I've flown about 100hrs behind a Navworx box, doesn't seem to be an inferior product really, just no reasonable support, and no expectation that they will be in business after 5 years.
 
I bought an original VM1000 used for 800 dollars 15 years ago. I used it without issue until last spring when it went tango uniform. Totally unsupported by JPI since I wasn't going to upgrade. I feel like I got my money's worth. If Navworx is gone in 5 years, I'll wager that the electronics will be fine for long after that. The difference here is that someone might change the rules and require a firmware upgrade that I won't be able to get. At far less than half the price of the next cheapest competitor, I'll take that risk. Ymmv
 
At far less than half the price of the next cheapest competitor, I'll take that risk. Ymmv

Not sure that's still applicable. I just did a trig solution for $2200 after the rebate (even less if I can sell my old transponder). I already had a Stratux for in. If you look, you'll see a recent post discussing a new alternative from one of the providers focused on the drone market. The AOPA press release on this offering indicated a price of $1400, I believe, for a complete in/out UAT solution. It even interfaces with non-rs232 transponders wirelessly. It is just coming on the market. I predicted that we would see cheaper options due to the drone market and this should continue. I fly mostly in the dense ORD airspace and REALLY wanted a better traffic picture now and decided it was worth an extra $1000 for me.

Larry
 
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The TSO has been temporarily suspended, it has not been revoked. Once a few things get ironed out, the TSO can easily be reinstated.

I don't know about refunds, but if you did not receive merchandise that you ordered, you can just dispute the charge with your credit card company.

David Bunin

Sent an email about 3 weeks ago asking for refund or ship what was ordered as is. Have not received a response to email or refund or shipment.

In beginning when they were still communicating with people like myself, they offered to refund but hoped we would be patient while matter was resolved. I said forget refund, I will wait for product. Received a nice private thank you from a lady, might still have her name if I can find it. She probably was just doing what she was told to do.

Am disappointed the owner has gone to deep cover on this matter.
 
Apples and oranges. The Navworx has a built in position source, in and out ADSB, and hardware for 1090mhz that might get activated someday. All in one box with a nine pin connector.

I bought all of that for $1000. The price of a new position source alone costs twice that amount. No one has a COMPLETE system for twice the price. And i really don't like using a mode s solution anyway.
 
Apples and oranges. The Navworx has a built in position source, in and out ADSB, and hardware for 1090mhz that might get activated someday. All in one box with a nine pin connector.

I bought all of that for $1000. The price of a new position source alone costs twice that amount. No one has a COMPLETE system for twice the price. And i really don't like using a mode s solution anyway.

From the AOPA press release:

The company’s Echo ATU-20 transmits ADS-B Out on 978 MHz as a universal access transceiver, and receives ADS-B transmissions on both the 978UAT and 1090ES frequencies. It includes an integrated WAAS GPS and altitude encoder, and wirelessly interrogates the aircraft’s existing transponder. Wi-Fi data is compatible with popular apps including ForeFlight, WingX, and FlyQ, the company said; the unit weighs 75 grams and costs $1,300.

What is missing from this that the Navworx has? Also, the navworks is not available today for $1000. It is $1400 and much closer to $2000 once you add in a the transponder interface and misc bits.

Larry
 
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Apples and oranges. The Navworx has a built in position source, in and out ADSB, and hardware for 1090mhz that might get activated someday. All in one box with a nine pin connector.

I bought all of that for $1000. The price of a new position source alone costs twice that amount. No one has a COMPLETE system for twice the price. And i really don't like using a mode s solution anyway.

Yes, it is apples and oranges. But the way most people think is, "What will it cost me today?" If I bought a IFR TSO'd GPS because I fly ifr, should I re-count its cost if I now add ADSB-out? Should I count the cost of the transponder antenna that I already had? And it's probably not fair to count the income you got from selling a now-redundant piece of equipment that you bought in the past - but that is how people think. It's money out of pocket today that matters. So by that standard my ADSB-out cost $1200, net, out of pocket. Another $500 got me ADSB-in. (Notice you play this game too. You don't count the cost of the required mode C transponder that you already owned.) So everyone has to choose what's right for them. You don't like mode S; but I have dreams of flying in the flight levels (just so I can say I did it), maybe visiting Mexico or the Caribbean (who knows the future rules, but UAT there is unlikely).
 
I saw that too..

Larry.... I saw that product too.
http://www.uavionix.com/products/echo-atu-20/

Looks pretty good.... but I have no idea what GPS chipset they use and we could have the same issue with this product that we have with navworx.

I'm to the point now where I don't believe what any of the manufactures are claiming... including the big ones.

The FAA needs a website where we can easily understand if a company is selling an approved product, grouped by model number.
Hopefully the FAA will get organized so the consumer can buy with confidence and move forward.
 
I believe this is a navworx issue not an faa issue. The FAA doesn't seem to be bothering anyone else. I have no details, but i believe navworx pulled a fast one on the faa and got caught. I am waiting on the GRT GPS position source. Due to the Navworx fiasco, they called the FAA to make sure what they were doing would be blessed. They got a green light and will be shipping soon.
 
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Larry....

The FAA needs a website where we can easily understand if a company is selling an approved product, grouped by model number.
Hopefully the FAA will get organized so the consumer can buy with confidence and move forward.

Well, you can look at the FAA's web site for the $500 rebate. There there is a list of boxes approved for the rebate. Not all-inclusive (non TSO boxes were excluded) but if your box is there then you should be okay.
 
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