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RV-12 in Canada?

W

Walter Klatt

Member
Since Canada does not have an LSA category, how can this plane be registered in this country? Normally, it would be done as a 51% Amateurbuilt, but as we know, that is on hold with the FAA right now.

And I know it can be done as a one-off AB here, just as in the US, but no guarantees on that one either. As I understand so far, you need to actually buy a kit first for them to evaluate, and the cost of that is extra, too.

There is also the 1232 lb Advanced Ultralight category, with similar rules to LSA, and it seems that it would qualify for that. But again, that is not available until Vans goes through the paperwork and qualifies it in that category. And I am not sure if there are any intentions for them with that.

Anyone else in Canada wanting to build an RV-12, and what options are you considering?

Walter
 
MDRA

Hey Walter.
Just a suggestion but call (dont email cause they NEVER respond) your nearest MDRA office. I find they are very good at getting you the answers. I have called several times through the build and they have always answered quickly or passed me off to those that can.
They are the inspectors through the build process and their web sit has lots of info.

The answer will be interesting, as my guess is it will fit in like the challengers, tecnams etc in the advanced ultralight, but...not sure about the homebuilt category stuff for the adv ul issues.

Good luck, post what you find a few other canucks might be interested.

Cheers
 
RV-12 in Canada

Hi Walter,

I spoke to the MD-RA about building an RV12 in Canada a while ago. They told me that it could be done under the 51% rule, but because the kit has not been 'officially' evaluated for the 51% rule that each individual kit would have to be determined to be compliant with the rule first.

In my case, since I was one of the first to be asking about it, they suggested that I have someone go to Van's and evaluate the kit - at my expense. If the determination was made that it fitted in the 51% rule, then that particular serial number would be considered eligible to be built in Canada. This route was suggested to save me from purchasing a kit and then finding out that it didn't meet the rule. It would also mean that the whole kit (not just a sub-kit) would have to be ready for inspection. I have not pursued this any further since only the wing kit is available at the moment.

I also learned that the '51% list' is a 'common' list shared between the USA and Canada. This means that if the FAA evaluates a kit in the US to be compliant, then Canada accepts their evaluation, with the reverse also being true. This helps manufacturers like Murphy Aircraft who are located in Canada and are inspected by a local Canadian inspector and manufacturers like Van's, located in the USA and inspected by a local US inspector. Since the FAA has 'frozen' the list for the moment don't expect any additions to it for a while.

I hope that helps to answer your question. For a more detailed response and until the RV-12 kit is added to the 51% list I'd suggest you contact the MD-RA directly. They have a 1-800 number listed on their website, which is how I normally contact them.

Andy Cumming
RV-9A C-GRZZ
120+ hrs and loving it

(Yes I already have a fun flying 9A, but I'm missing the building part and thought a 12 might be a fun project to address my need to build)
 
RV-12 in Canada

Walter

Thought about the same issues. Given the potential global market, I'd be very surprised if Vans didn't at least consider the 51% or AULA rules in their design. Quite willing to walk through the minefield. Will phone on Monday for this as well as pricing questions and canopy headroom questions. They may have to add another shift inorder to handle demand.

Jasper

PS. That's one sweet RV that you built Andy!
 
Just went through a 51%

Hi Walter
I just went through a 51% inspection with my F1 Rocket (quickbuild). If you want to discuss the process let me know. I also have the worksheet. Travelling for the next week but will be in Vancouver the week of April 28.
 
At this time, am just exploring the options. If I end up going the one-off AB, I may take you up on the offer. Am still hoping that the 12 will eventually be FAA 51% approved.

I heard too, that the MDRA guys want a paid trip to Vans to view a complete kit, if I don't buy one first. And apparently, if one person does it, that is not good enough for anyone else. Everyone going through the one-off AB process has to follow the same process. However, can't see them accepting one, and rejecting another.

Walter
 
What if you guys pay the CAA to fly to Vans and check out the RV-12 for '51%' approval. Would then the FAA would accept it through reciprocity?
Just a thought...
 
InsideOut said:
What if you guys pay the CAA to fly to Vans and check out the RV-12 for '51%' approval. Would then the FAA would accept it through reciprocity?
Just a thought...
Click to expand...

Don't get me started on that...for a while this is exactly what happened here in South Africa. We as homebuilders had to sponsor an expensive trip for an CAA official overseas, to get the kit approved. South Africa is not around the corner you know. Some of these officials used it as a paid vacation, extending their trips etc, etc. We fought long and hard that if an similiar aviation authority approved, why do you want to redo the work, effort and expenses. As long if it is a reputable aviation authority accept the work done and move on from there!

We are making progress down here with these rules, but it is taking time and effort to reverse precidents set. If I decide to build a 12 I know it is going to be a whole lot of fighting and convincing from scratch, but no way am I sponsoring an international trip for an official!

Kind Regards
Rudi
 
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For what it's worth.

"The complete kit has to be evaluated at one time. The evaluation applies to that one example and does not in any way indicate that other examples are automatically eligible for construction under the rule."
 
I would buy the RV12 Kit if Vans gets an AULA certification for Canada. Or if there is an easyway to build it as an SLA and import to Canada.
 
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I'm still waiting...

Can't build it as an Amateurbuilt, AULA, LSA, or anything else at this time in Canada. When does the FAA expect to finish their 51% rule determination? Then it might become available as AB in Canada. I have also heard rumours that TC is considering some kind of LSA certification in Canada, but nothing concrete on that either.

Walter
 
Futur buyer

I plan to buy a RV-12 probably at the end of the summer, if TC add it to the available kit list. I'm located in the north of Qu?bec. I will follow this thread carefuly....
 
I think the only sure shot option for us Canadians (as suggested by this group) would be to wait for the complete kits to be available.

Then order three complete kits.


Share the cost of sending one MDRA dude to RV to inspect our three kits and built them in Canada as Home Builds.

It might be Summer 2010 b4 we get our kits... Walter & Closeterman : Are you up for it...?
 
Like the idea

I like the idea, but on my side I will wait to see the final cost of the RV-12 because I also considering the RV-9. If the total cost are near, I will go for the 9... Anyway, by the time, I continue to put my money on the bank and buy some tool slowly but surely..... :cool:
 
Sure....you can probably build the RV9 at around the same price...based on the engine selection, avionics etc...

But cost of ownership is more important...
> I intent to park my RV12 in its Enclosed trailer in my backyard. Saving $350 per month for the rest of my life. Or 42,000 every 10 years.
 
Waiting for approval in Canada

I'm in Vancouver, so sharing an MDRA inspector with you guys wouldn't work too well for me. But if you do go forward with that out east, would sure like to know how it works out.

My preference, though, is to have the RV 12 on the 51% approved list. That's why I am asking when the FAA is finished their review. After that, I would expect TC approval to come quickly.

I want the RV 12 so I can park it in my hangar under the wing of my amphib. Plus it should use a 1/4 of the fuel of my amphib floatplane for XC trips.

Walter
 
I spoke to the MDRA (out of London). He mentioned that there was already one RV12 being built in Canada (didn't know where)

For the three of us MDRA would send an inspector from Vancouver to assess all three kits. We would have to share the cost of Airfare Hotel and Living plus $379 per kit.

What do you think guys...

You can always get the Canadian SLA class later when its available here.
 
BABA said:
You can always get the Canadian SLA class later when its available here.
Click to expand...
Regulatory change in Canada is a glacially slow process. I would be amazed if we had an LSA class in Canada in less than five years. It is more likely that we are 10 years away, or more.

I've worked in Transport Canada for almost 15 years. There are precious few regulation changes that have gone all the way from first discussions to regs in place in the time I've been at TC.
 
Not in a big rush

But if I wait until the 51% approval, I can save all of that. I have already completed two amateurbuilt planes in Canada, both floatplanes that I fly regularly, so it is not like I don't have a plane to fly now. I am hoping that the FAA will finish their 51% review soon, and then we will know where the RV12 stands.

Would be good to know who exactly is already building an RV12 in Canada, and how he expects to get it registered.

Plus would be nice if our dollar recovered a bit. I was lucky last year (fall 07), when I bought a new O-360 for one of my other planes.

Walter
 
Transport Canada

Check out www.lamac.ca and you will see Transport Canada's proposed new Aircraft Class Rules. You will see that they intend to adopt the US LSA categories and even add a few new ones. This report is a couple of years old so it should come in effect shortly. Rick
 
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