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Recommendation Please

E

E. D. Eliot

Well Known Member
I haven't started my 12 kit yet. I'll be visiting the Van's factory in a few weeks and am requesting to know what 'extra' rivets, parts, etc. you all would recommend that I pick up during the visit. Thanks in advance for your recommendations.
 
Tube

Current builders will have a more complete list for you but one item would be extra aluminum tubing for the fuel lines. Or if you have a local source, just pick some up when the time comes. Awful easy to remember what you forgot to slip on the tube when you are executing that final flare!

Also, if you haven't worked with it, your supplemental supply will be good for practice flaring. You really want to have everything just right before that plumbing exercise begins.

Scrap tubing can be turned into many useful things: back scratcher, mobile artwork for shop, old car fix-its...got 'em all here.

Jim
RV-12 flying 330 hours
 
The only "extra" parts I needed, beside a few replacement parts on stuff I screwed up, where some extra LP4-3 rivets. You can't get them at ACS. A couple hundred are nice to have around just in case.
 
E.D.

Van's web orders are handled so quickly that there is really no need to plan ahead on "extra" rivets and parts. Unless you live in Oz ;),that is. You are in CA, so if you order something on a Monday you will have it before the end of the week for sure, and probably Wednesday if you ask for priority mail.

Can't tell from your post, but if you have unstarted kits sitting around in crates then be aware that there have been a lot of improvements in kits over the last few years. The Service Bulletins would have been sent to you, however, there are several upgrades that are in the later kits that would be considered optional for earlier kits. The wing electrical connectors, fuselage and firewall stiffeners, fuel tank vent kit, various little brackets like the ones over the tunnel wiring, etc.

These are all desirable improvements. It would be good to figure out which of these you might not have in your inventories so as to be able to incorporate them as you build. But, here again, you can get them very quickly when you need them.
 
If you are a genius and you can look at the drawing and see exactly where to cut the aluminum hinge and NOT cut the hinges exactly like the instructions say....then unlike most of us...you may not need any additional hinge. But if you cut like the instructions say...you better buy more.

Before starting. Find someone's builder's log. Read what they say about the step you are about to perform. Reading about their mistakes should prevent you from making the same one. Google "Builders Gotchas" and read that. I don't remember who wrote this, but thanks...it helped me avoid some problems. Tip of the day: "If it does not line up or fit perfectly, something is wrong...and its probably not the parts." I never found a single part that did not fit perfectly...Thank you Van's employees for the excellent work.

Install the engine BEFORE attaching the COWLING if you want a perfect fit. Open all the inventory bags and separate all the pieces into 500 + or - bins. Number the bins, then write the bin number on the inventory sheet for easy reference. Write the bin number on each bag so you will ALWAYS put it back in the correct bin. OTHERWISE YOU WILL SPEND AS MUCH TIME LOOKING FOR PARTS AS YOU DO INSTALLING THEM.
 
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Jackkclark said:
OTHERWISE YOU WILL SPEND AS MUCH TIME LOOKING FOR PARTS AS YOU DO INSTALLING THEM.
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That's a good point. One way to avoid ordering extra parts is to have a system that allows you to find the parts you need in the first place. There are lots of posts on here about how to set up a good storage and retrieval system. Set up one that works for you. You will still need to get extra items to replace those you ruin, but a badly organised shop will guarantee a frustrating building experience.
 
If you're a new builder, I might recommend:

  • extra longeron (or two... or... :eek:)

  • a few extra K-1008 nutplates

  • extra rivets LP4-3 (to replace the ones you drill out)

  • extra nylon washers (for the ones you drop on the floor and just can't see...anywhere...)

  • extra piano hinge (I just gave up and doubled the amount called for in the plans).

I will say that Van's is efficient. They ship in all kinds of containers from boxes and envelopes to PVC pipe. And it gets here pretty quick (New Mexico). I put in two orders the other day; one over night (I just had to work on something) and one for priority mail. I received the over night...er.. overnight. The priority mail was on my door step two days after that. I won't mention the difference in price for shipping .

Bob
 
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GET SOME SCRAP ALUMINUM!!!
You will want to practice a few things like countersink etc, and the kit does not come with any scrap to practice on! Just ask for a bunch of pieces. That is kind of a shortcoming of the kit, they assume that even new RV12 builders have some scrap.

A bit of extra piano hinge is not a bad idea, everybody seems to mess up one piece. .

You will have plenty of spare rivets of all sizes by the time you are done with the kit.
 
When the time comes you will need fiberglass cloth, micro balloons, flock and pro-seal. They don't come with the kit.
 
I disagree a bit with Jack.

Open the bags and inventory the parts (hardware) to be sure you have them all. THEN, Every part (like a certain size nutplate) goes in its own compartment. You can get great divided compartment containers cheap at Harbor Freight or similar places. You can put more than one type of hardware in the same compartment as long as you cannot mistake them! (Ok to mix one particular size of nutplates and a certain size washer, for example, in the same bin. But never mix more than one size of nutplate, nut, washer, screw, rivet, etc. in the same bin!)

In subsequent kits, you will be getting additional quantities of the same parts (hardware) you got in previous kits. Inventory them, then add them to the appropriate bin with the other parts. You will have a fair amount of leftover rivets and other things. But not generally leftover AN hardware.

The PLANS NEVER REFER TO THE BAGS!!! YOU DO NOT NEED TO KEEP TRACK OF WHAT BAG HAD WHAT PARTS IN IT!!! The plans simply refer to the parts and hardware by its appropriate designation. Once you insure, from the packing list, that all of the hardware you were supposed to get was there, the hardware goes into the bins and you forget about the bags entirely!

Label each bin (compartment) with the official part number. Not the bag number. At least semi-logically arrange the compartment contents.

Bill H.
 
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FWIW, I agree with Bill. The best storage containers are the ones that have small removable buckets instead of the usual fixed dividers. Easy to reorganise and being able to take out the bucket/s you need for the parts you are working on is very handy.
 
Flock is made up of cotton fibers. Micro balloons are tiny glass beads. When you mix flock and resin it's like a rock. Micro balloons and resin is easy to sand into shape, lighter than flock but can chip.
 
RFSchaller said:
Flock is made up of cotton fibers. Micro balloons are tiny glass beads. When you mix flock and resin it's like a rock. Micro balloons and resin is easy to sand into shape, lighter than flock but can chip.
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The important thing here is that flox is "structural", Micro is NOT.
 
I would like to recommend this highly. I did NOT do it until about 3/4 done, then found I would have been far better served if I had done it this way from the start.
Bill_H said:
I disagree a bit with Jack.

Open the bags and inventory the parts (hardware) to be sure you have them all. THEN, Every part (like a certain size nutplate) goes in its own compartment. You can get great divided compartment containers cheap at Harbor Freight or similar places. You can put more than one type of hardware in the same compartment as long as you cannot mistake them! (Ok to mix one particular size of nutplates and a certain size washer, for example, in the same bin. But never mix more than one size of nutplate, nut, washer, screw, rivet, etc. in the same bin!)

In subsequent kits, you will be getting additional quantities of the same parts (hardware) you got in previous kits. Inventory them, then add them to the appropriate bin with the other parts. You will have a fair amount of leftover rivets and other things. But not generally leftover AN hardware.

The PLANS NEVER REFER TO THE BAGS!!! YOU DO NOT NEED TO KEEP TRACK OF WHAT BAG HAD WHAT PARTS IN IT!!! The plans simply refer to the parts and hardware by its appropriate designation. Once you insure, from the packing list, that all of the hardware you were supposed to get was there, the hardware goes into the bins and you forget about the bags entirely!

Label each bin (compartment) with the official part number. Not the bag number. At least semi-logically arrange the compartment contents.

Bill H.
Click to expand...
 
It's a combination for me.

Common parts (rivets, nutplates, nuts, bolts, washers, etc.) go in a drawered cabinet and are labeled by part no. The rest of the parts stay in their bags and are located by referencing the parts list to find the bags they're in. It's fast to do and works well for me.

Jim
 
Mel,

Good point. I used flock around the canopy attachment holes to hold a short piece of aluminum tubing around the bolt. Makes for a very clean access hole and acts as a guide for the socket when removing or installing the bolt. The surrounding flock keeps the tube solidly in place. That was the only place I used it.

Rich
 
I didn't see it mentioned but I've found myself buying a couple hundred 4-4 pull rivets. There's a couple places where either 5 sheets of metal (the wing panels) or some thick spar where the 4-4 just seemed to work better. Don't worry too much about trying to anticipate what you may need. You'll know it when you need it and Van's is always just a few days away in the mail.

As for extra aluminum... I'm sure you have some "extra" soon enough;)
 
When I built my first wing I missed the call out for LP4-4 rivets at some locations. I got better at drilling out rivets than I ever wanted to be! :D
 
Videos

I have found the videos from homebuilderhelp.com helpful. Since they were made a few years ago they may not show the latest change,but I still have found them helpful. This is especially true when tyring to determine the orientation of parts. My only caution is to follow the plans when there is a difference


Don MacMillan
 
dsm8 said:
I have found the videos from homebuilderhelp.com helpful. Since they were made a few years ago they may not show the latest change,but I still have found them helpful. This is especially true when tyring to determine the orientation of parts. My only caution is to follow the plans when there is a difference


Don MacMillan
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Good advice. I've found the videos very helpful as well as some of the build blogs of those that have gone before.

Also, don't overthink getting everything ahead of time that you think you might need. Just keep a running list and when you have to order parts for something that you need to "revisit" just catch up your running list at that time.

Jim
 
I've posted this before, but here goes again: I bought all the airframe kits at once holding off on only the firewall forward and avionics. Advantage: you can resequence work to improve accessibility (e.g. Autopilot servos and rudder pedal assembly.) Drawback: if something changes in an unordered kit you may have a lot of extra work. For example, I had one of the last D-180 kits. 6 months later and I wold have had to deal with a Skyview back fit. (OK, Vans probably would have got me a D-180, but you get the point.)
 
Next to the plans (and their updates), the two most important documents are the 'Packing List' and the 'Hardware List'. This is especially true when you get to the fuse kit and the finish kit.

Often times part numbers may change or be substituted. While the plans may not reflect that, the Hardware List will and its the only place you will see it. Weeks after you complete the inventory, you'll forget. Keep both handy. If you're like me and keep things in special places so you won't forget; you better scan them so you can print extra copies.

I keep sub-kit parts (that will fit) in 'book' moving boxes and labeled by sub-kit number. This way I can refer to the 'Packing List' and figure out where those parts are.

Hardware goes in those 'Hardware Storage Cabinets' with the little sliding drawers from Lowes aircraft supply. Each drawer is labeled for each part. One part per drawer. I also have separate drawer cabinets for each major kit (tail, wing, etc.). There will be things you skip or hold off for later, so it just seemed easier that way.

Speaking of labeler's I bought an Epson labeler. Down side - I order the labeling tape and can't pick it up locally. Up side more control. I didn't discover the lack of a local supply right away and while waiting for the tape to come in I picked up a cheap Brothers unit on sale. They obviously make their money on selling the label tape because each label had the same 3'" or 4" (?) length regardless of what you printed. YMMV. You'll find many uses for a labeler including labeling wiring.

Bob
 
When I built a Searey I made the mistake of not storing parts together in their bags. (I put all the similar hardware together regardless of what part of the airframe it went on.) It probably added 10% to the build time. With the RV-12 I invested in a bunch of storage boxes and kept each bag of parts together. It was a huge improvement.
 
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