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Superior cold air sump

K

Kjkbcaptain

I'm New Here
I ordered a standard IO-360 M1B, standard lycoming sump and standard precision airmotive fuel injection from a well known engine builder thinking it would make the build easier. What I got was a Superior cold air sump and precision airmotive injection. Any advice on mixture and throttle cable routing, snorkel and cowling modifications that might be needed, and exhaust choices would be appreciated. Or, should I insist they change the sump to what I ordered.
Thanks
 
Kjkbcaptain said:
I ordered a standard IO-360 M1B, standard lycoming sump and standard precision airmotive fuel injection from a well known engine builder thinking it would make the build easier. What I got was a Superior cold air sump and precision airmotive injection. Any advice on mixture and throttle cable routing, snorkel and cowling modifications that might be needed, and exhaust choices would be appreciated. Or, should I insist they change the sump to what I ordered.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Ken,
Looks like you will have the same set up that I have.I take it you are building a 7? I have an 8 but should be similar. As far as cable lengths go I found that its best to measure the distance and order the ones you need. The bracket that Vans sell for the fuel injection ICO will work. You will have to make a bracket for the throttle that will bolt on to the cold air sump.
The next question is what starter they put on you engine. The sky Tec NL starter is a great starter and fits well with the snorkel. You may have to Machine off / Cut one leg off of it. Precision Airmotive located in WA is a great company to deal with and they will help you out if you need a different size arm for your servo unit. Send them your old one and they will send you what you need. As far as the snorkel goes it was a tight fit but it went on my 8 with no major modifications. I have some pictures below and if you search the archives you will find plenty of examples.

Hope that helps.
 
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Ken

From my own experience there is quite a bit of work having the cold air sump, but in my case that was out of personal choice. I have logged most of the issues and how I/others have resolved them at my build log. Hope it helps with your decision.
 
You might want to consider returning the thing, and have them pay for it all.

Delivering what you ordered and paid for seems like basic courtesy number one. What else did they get wrong?

Or at least get a discount or something to compensate for all the extra headaches you're gong to have ...
 
I ran into troubles trying to install my throttle cable according to Vans plans. I decided to run it underneath doing away with the bell crank that came with the FF kit. I built a bracket out of mild steel and bolted it to the rear of the superior sump. I wanted to stay with the control cables that Van sells because special lengths are costly and these will probably have to be replaced every 5 years or so. I used the control cable exstensions Spruce sells to make up the difference.

20140523_140222.jpg
 
I have the Superior sump too. I used the 2 bolt mounting boss shown on the right of Mikes picture. I made a bracket to secure the ends of the Van's 60" throttle & Mixture cables. My Airflow FM-150 injector (similar to Bendix RSA5) has the throttle & Mixture levers on the bottom. Everything fits fine, but the mixture arm is pretty close to the bottom of the cowl.
If you follow my link, you can see a pic of it, including the simple air filter I'm trying.
 
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More HP with cold sump

If I'm not mistaken, you'll get a few more HP with the cold sump?

My first -7 have a Superior with the cold sump and my second -7 has the std Lyc with hot sump.
To me, the Superior is more willing to run smooth at LOP (I lean until the LAST cyl reaches -50*F) on all powersettings. (up to 75% that is)

The Lyc must be adjusted alittle richer to run smooth.

BTW: bot engine are injected, fwd induction and have dual P-mags.

Knowing back then what I know today, I know that I would've ordered the cold sump, schould I have ordered a new engine today...

It's alittle more work with the cold sump during construction, but for me, it was worth it...

My 2 cents....
 
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ao.frog said:
If I'm not mistaken, you'll get a few more HP with the cold sump?
Click to expand...

That's what we're led to believe. Does anyone have numbers, back to back on the same engine?

My first -7 have a Superior with the cold sump and my second -7 has the std Lyc with hot sump. To me, the Superior is more willing to run smooth at LOP (I lean until the LAST cyl reaches -50*F) on all powersettings. (up to 75% that is) The Lyc must be adjusted alittle richer to run smooth.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt the observation, but there's not much logic tying it to the induction system choice. Consider...

Lyc and Superior are two different cylinder head castings; minor port details can make a significant difference.

The induction is air distribution only. Fuel is added at the ports, so fuel distribution is unaffected by an induction change, unlike a carb application where we really need some manifold design work. Any difference in air distribution can be matched with an injector nozzle restrictor change....classic tuning for LOP operation.

It's called a "cold air sump". How much colder is the air it delivers? At 2700 RPM, each cylinder's intake runner is passing 2.3 cubic feet of air per second.

Let's say oil in the standard sump is about 200F. We assume the Lyc induction plenum is about the same because of conducted heat energy. Although the Superior cold air induction is outside the sump, it is bolted to the bottom, which would also conduct some heat to the plenum.

The plenum is only part of the plumbing. With either system (Lyc or "cold air"), the induction tubes from plenum to cylinder head are exposed to the hot downflow from cylinder head cooling. I've measured as high as 240F at the baffle tie, hotter than the sump temperature, and the induction tubes appear to have much more surface area than the plenum. Obviously there's nothing cold about the tubes on either system. Not that it necessarily makes a lot of difference; the "cold air" plenum is bathed in the same hot air, again, air that is warmer than the oil.

Not saying it's a bad deal. It works fine, and it does save three lbs. I'm just hesitant to believe it delivers lower induction air temperature. Anybody have a measurement?
 
Volumetric Flow

DanH said:
That's what we're led to believe. Does anyone have numbers, back to back on the same engine?


It's called a "cold air sump". How much colder is the air it delivers? At 2700 RPM, each cylinder's intake runner is passing 2.3 cubic feet of air per second.
Click to expand...

Dan,

Volumetric flow per runner is only half this figure because there's only 1 intake stroke per 2 revolutions on a 4 cycle...

And, this is assuming 100% volumetric efficiency.

Skylor
 
At 2700rpm the air is sat in the inlet tube for about 88 milliseconds, so even if the sump was really hot the heating of the air would be negligible.

I always thought a 'cold' sump was worth around 3 to 5 hp, but can't remember where I got that number from - perhaps a post by Mahlon a few years back? I suspect that its more to do with the air path being more fair rather than the temperature of the air. A 'hot' sump has (almost) a flat plate at the top of the vertical riser, there must be some flow losses there that don't happen with a 'cold' sump.

Pete
 
Trade

Is your engine a parallel model? If so, I am looking for the sump and system you have. I have a fresh vertical sump with intake tubes presently on my zero time since overhaul IO360 B1B and would trade for yours, just the sump and intake tubes. Lets meet and talk a deal.

Ed
 
penguin said:
At 2700rpm the air is sat in the inlet tube for about 88 milliseconds, so even if the sump was really hot the heating of the air would be negligible.

I always thought a 'cold' sump was worth around 3 to 5 hp, but can't remember where I got that number from - perhaps a post by Mahlon a few years back? I suspect that its more to do with the air path being more fair rather than the temperature of the air. A 'hot' sump has (almost) a flat plate at the top of the vertical riser, there must be some flow losses there that don't happen with a 'cold' sump.

Pete
Click to expand...

Probably about 3 HP but other factors could be responsible for that.

Both my Barrett IO360's with the cold air sump dynoed at over 180 HP. Barrett engines are balanced, that could be part of "other factors".
 
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