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Buying unfinished RV-6A - what to check more than carefully

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XPPilot

Well Known Member
Hi,

I am considering to purchase unfinished RV-6A. It is really early SN, standard kit. I like to hear Lessons Learned from this community to prevent to be in the situation to rebuild slow build kit.

So please let me and others in this community to know what to check, what you have learned from similar situations and any other Lessons to Learned.

If we get good amount of information I can offer my help to put together Pre-Purchase Check List.
 
What construction has been accomplished?

What construction has been accomplished? Do you see anything you are wondering about? Is there any corrosion on the parts? Where has it been stored ?
 
You don't say "how early" S/N. If it has floor mounted rudder pedals, that should be updated. The floor mounted pedals in my -6 have been working fine since 1993 but the "hanging" pedals are much better.
 
Be sure you get the 4 steel splice plates that join the wing main spars together and the close-tolerance bolts that go with them.
 
Pre-Buy Inspection

Best thing to do is get an experienced builder to take a look at what's been done.

Cheap Insurance!

It helped with my purchase-saved me some big problems.
 
If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't! I wish I'd just saved up and bought a complete kit, brand-spanking-new from Vans.

First off, Vans see dealing with 2nd hand owners as a tricky situation from a liability standpoint. If you have any questions about the kit, you may literally feel the apprehension of the folks at Vans. They'll be polite, and they'll try to answer your questions. But, they will not offer any opinions or info about their dealings with the previous builder.

Secondly, I realize now that buying a kit someone else started, especially an older kit is something I would only feel comfortable doing if I was already an expert on the kit with a high degree of skill. I'm not.

Third, the satisfaction of starting with brand new, up-to-date parts, plans, and drawings is probably worth a few extra dollars IMHO.

Things I'd do differently: take a subject-matter expert with me to look at the kit prior to agreeing to buy it.

My second-hand wings are ok. They're usable. But, I've spent a lot of time getting to know them and worrying over every rivet and blemish.
 
Tough question

You are asking a question extremely difficult to answer thoroughly here. It spans the gamut from riveting quality to structural integrity. Please enlist the help of a prebuy inspection, especially if you are not a builder yourself. You won't regret it.
 
If the fuel tanks have been built, check to see if they used slosh. If they did, you need to strongly consider your options for removal of the slosh. The use of slosh was a very common practice in this vintage.
 
A knowledgeable pre-buy inspector is your best bet, unless you are very familiar with standards and the RV-6. As a "used -6" builder myself, I know how it goes. Fortunatley the previous owner on mine was family, but even at that there was still a couple suprises. Being that -6's were not pre-drilled, there is a lot of potential for misplaced holes, so definatley have a good understanding of edge distance, what a good/bad rivet looks like, etc. Oh and have a goooood look at the horizontal stabilizer attachement.... Thats a pretty regular "oops" from what Ive heard. Once again, thats where a knowledgeable pre-buy inspector will be a huge help.

That being said, don't let the extra work of a pre-buy turn you off. Non-pre punched kits are a lot of extra work but I see that as a lot more rewarding. Sure there been evenings when I used every cuss word in the book on it, but I crack a beer and come back the next day with a great challenge ahead and I love it.

Alex
 
N804RV said:
First off, Vans see dealing with 2nd hand owners as a tricky situation from a liability standpoint. If you have any questions about the kit, you may literally feel the apprehension of the folks at Vans.
Click to expand...

My RV-6 is an amalgam of two unfinished projects, and the RV-10 I'm in the process of finishing is a 3rd hand project. I've never sensed apprehension or any other waryness from Vans on either project.
 
Great advice already given. Is there a record of the kit parts inventory? Did the builder organize the parts or are they just "laying around". If youre convinced it is complete and organized, that will go a long way in saving you time. The early kits where organized by group, empennage, wing, etc....in the build sheets. If he doesn't have the build sheets or inventory, I would walk unless it is a smoking good deal. If there are build logs, that might give you clues.
If that all looks good, check the empennage work. That will tell you a lot about the build quality. If the tail has been mounted, research the "check those tails" post. This is one of the biggest areas for mistakes that can lead to very difficult repairs.

Good luck.
 
ONe advantage you have is if the airplane is only partially finished, then you have access to areas that buyers of finished airplanes don't. Go see it with somebody who has built an RV. And it likely won't be perfect. Very very few of them are, but that doesn't mean it is not airworthy.
 
rv6builder said:
A knowledgeable pre-buy inspector is your best bet, unless you are very familiar with standards and the RV-6. As a "used -6" builder myself, I know how it goes. Fortunatley the previous owner on mine was family, but even at that there was still a couple suprises. Being that -6's were not pre-drilled, there is a lot of potential for misplaced holes, so definatley have a good understanding of edge distance, what a good/bad rivet looks like, etc. Oh and have a goooood look at the horizontal stabilizer attachement.... Thats a pretty regular "oops" from what Ive heard. Once again, thats where a knowledgeable pre-buy inspector will be a huge help.

That being said, don't let the extra work of a pre-buy turn you off. Non-pre punched kits are a lot of extra work but I see that as a lot more rewarding. Sure there been evenings when I used every cuss word in the book on it, but I crack a beer and come back the next day with a great challenge ahead and I love it.

Alex
Click to expand...

A bit of examining on a wing through the end ribs and inspection hole will tell you a lot about the construction.

Rivet shop heads should look good (see many posts on VAF for this) and, for the not pre-punched kits, if the rivet lines are straight and evenly spaced and the rivets fall in the center of the rib flanges, it will be a sign of a carefully measured and constructed wing build.
 
Fuselage, tail, wings and canopy are completed. Engine and propeller is installed. Fuel lines, all wiring and brake system needs to be completed.

Based on your question regarding corrosion. I contacted seller and I got confirmation that there is corrosion on the skin due to it has not been painted outside. Inside has been primed.

Pedals are floor mounted.



Vern said:
What construction has been accomplished? Do you see anything you are wondering about? Is there any corrosion on the parts? Where has it been stored ?
Click to expand...
 
200xxx. Yes it have floor mounted pedals.


Mel said:
You don't say "how early" S/N. If it has floor mounted rudder pedals, that should be updated. The floor mounted pedals in my -6 have been working fine since 1993 but the "hanging" pedals are much better.
Click to expand...
 
Jim, according to owner wing tanks and main spars are professionally build. No slosh used. Have used Pro-Seal to seal fuel tanks.



Jim Lewellyn said:
If the fuel tanks have been built, check to see if they used slosh. If they did, you need to strongly consider your options for removal of the slosh. The use of slosh was a very common practice in this vintage.
Click to expand...
 
Alex, thank you for your advice! Please share good and bad example pictures of Horizontal Stabilized workmanship.


rv6builder said:
A knowledgeable pre-buy inspector is your best bet, unless you are very familiar with standards and the RV-6. As a "used -6" builder myself, I know how it goes. Fortunatley the previous owner on mine was family, but even at that there was still a couple suprises. Being that -6's were not pre-drilled, there is a lot of potential for misplaced holes, so definatley have a good understanding of edge distance, what a good/bad rivet looks like, etc. Oh and have a goooood look at the horizontal stabilizer attachement.... Thats a pretty regular "oops" from what Ive heard. Once again, thats where a knowledgeable pre-buy inspector will be a huge help.

That being said, don't let the extra work of a pre-buy turn you off. Non-pre punched kits are a lot of extra work but I see that as a lot more rewarding. Sure there been evenings when I used every cuss word in the book on it, but I crack a beer and come back the next day with a great challenge ahead and I love it.

Alex
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for your advice! I'll check / research the "check those tails" posts.



JonJay said:
Great advice already given. Is there a record of the kit parts inventory? Did the builder organize the parts or are they just "laying around". If youre convinced it is complete and organized, that will go a long way in saving you time. The early kits where organized by group, empennage, wing, etc....in the build sheets. If he doesn't have the build sheets or inventory, I would walk unless it is a smoking good deal. If there are build logs, that might give you clues.
If that all looks good, check the empennage work. That will tell you a lot about the build quality. If the tail has been mounted, research the "check those tails" post. This is one of the biggest areas for mistakes that can lead to very difficult repairs.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
Gil, good point. I'll pay attention to rivet lines and even separations.



az_gila said:
A bit of examining on a wing through the end ribs and inspection hole will tell you a lot about the construction.

Rivet shop heads should look good (see many posts on VAF for this) and, for the not pre-punched kits, if the rivet lines are straight and evenly spaced and the rivets fall in the center of the rib flanges, it will be a sign of a carefully measured and constructed wing build.
Click to expand...
 
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