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Improved RV-8 Rear Rudder Pedals ?

jclark

Well Known Member
Benefactor
Some time ago, there was a post about and improved design for the rear seat rudder pedals in an RV8.

I have searched and searched but cannot seem to find it. (Not using the right key words, I guess.)


Anyone here remember the post and can point me to it??

THANKS!!

James
 
James,

I think it was me that you're referring to. But, I didn't post anything here. You had emailed me about my rear throttle lever and I had mentioned my improvements to the rear rudder pedals. If you'd like more info, you can email me or I can post it here.

[email protected]
 
Another rear Rudder Pedal design

Sadly, it's not mine and I have no photos, but I flew with Craig Taylor in his beautiful RV-8 5678D in Pagosa Springs this past October. He's got a set of practically standard rudder pedals in the back seat of his plane. I only remember they were linked to the front sear pedals by cables/push rods that ran above the floor. I rode in the back and they worked great and looked and felt perfectly normal.

Craig, you got some pictures of your installation you can provide?
 
You are CORRECT!!

James,

I think it was me that you're referring to. But, I didn't post anything here. You had emailed me about my rear throttle lever and I had mentioned my improvements to the rear rudder pedals. If you'd like more info, you can email me or I can post it here.

[email protected]

Now I remember!

Sent you an email.

Thanks.

James
 
James,

I think it was me that you're referring to. But, I didn't post anything here. You had emailed me about my rear throttle lever and I had mentioned my improvements to the rear rudder pedals. If you'd like more info, you can email me or I can post it here.

I'd love to see what you guys are discussing as I've been thinking about how to improve the rear pedals.
 
RV-8 back seat rudder/brake pedals

I've partnered my -8 "Special Delivery" with Bruce Bohannon, CFI of Pushy Galore & Exxon Flyin' Tiger fame for the purpose of designing a robust rudder & brake system for the back seat.

An official announcement will be coming soon, but you've heard it first here on VAF; the aircraft was approved and just two days ago the FAA issued Bruce a LODA to conduct RV-8 transition training. He's currently engineering the system to work with ground adjustable pedals so I don't expect he'll be offering plans or kits any time soon. Sorry. I've flown the front seat to test his 'back seat' ability to override my rudder/brake inputs, and except for a pilot that might lock-in both legs which will get him/her a severe jolt to the back of their head, the geometry and linkage works as designed and is simply amazing. Seems that all it took was to tell Bruce it couldn't be done!

So... stay tuned for the 'official' announcement; "RV-8 transition training available in an RV-8" ...and coming soon thereafter, "RV-4 and RV-3".
 
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-8 Rear Seat pedals

I've partnered my -8 "Special Delivery" with Bruce Bohannon, CFI of Pushy Galore & Exxon Flyin' Tiger fame for the purpose of designing a robust rudder & brake system for the back seat.

An official announcement will be coming soon, but you've heard it first here on VAF; the FAA has approved the rudder/brake system and just two days ago issued Bruce a LODA to conduct RV-8 transition training. He's currently engineering the system to work with ground adjustable pedals so I don't expect he'll be offering plans or kits any time soon. Sorry. I've flown the front seat to test his 'back seat' ability to override my rudder/brake inputs, and except for a pilot that might lock-in both legs which will get him/her a severe jolt to the back of their head, the geometry and linkage works as designed and is simply amazing. Seems that all it took was to tell Bruce it couldn't be done!

So... stay tuned for the 'official' announcement; "RV-8 transition training available in an RV-8" ...and coming soon thereafter, "RV-4 and RV-3".

Nice job. Can we at least get a picture of the pedals? I installed ground adjustable pedals. Just saying :D Oh, and you guys are really thinking outside the box if you're going to do transition training in a -3 :D:D
 
Rear rudder pedals

James,

I just realized that I have not taken photos of the rear rudder pedals that CookieMonster mentioned above. :( I will take photos tomorrow and post them for you.
 
BIG servos, and a powerful transmitter

Nice job. Can we at least get a picture of the pedals? I installed ground adjustable pedals. Just saying :D Oh, and you guys are really thinking outside the box if you're going to do transition training in a -3 :D:D

I caught the RV3 mention too.

I can see it now: a ground controller with an over-grown R/C sort of setup with some really big servos installed in the RV3. The pilot can be over-controlled easily! Great plan! How many libations did you fellas have before coming up with this idea? The normal amount, I would expect....

One favor I might ask: don't do this while I'm spraying in the area, please.:eek: I'm looking for towers while on that mission, not errant RV3s controlled from the ground....maybe I'll put a red box around 81D on my nav system so I don't go anywhere near that place.:D

Just sayin'! :rolleyes:

Carry on!
Mark
 
Rear Rudder Pedal Photos

Here are some photos of the pedals that I built for our RV8:

p1020391.jpg


p1020391.jpg


p1020392.jpg


p1020395.jpg


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p1020397.jpg


My wife took a "Pinch Hitter" course a while back. She is small, so her seat in the back is quite tall, resulting in a downward push on the pushrod pedal "buttons" making it hard to feel the pressure While practicing taxi from the back seat with the "button" type rear rudder pedals, she pushed hard to stop a turn, and the pedal shaft broke! So we built these pedals for her. They are installed in the rear seat foot well, using plastic clip-type grommets as a pivot point. The pedals are easily removable by sliding the outboard pivot pin inwards to release the pedal. The pedal and pushrod assemblies weigh 11 ounces each.

If you are interested in having a similar set made, I can supply the drawings.

Hopefully this is useful!
 
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Rudder peda pivot

Glenn,

The rudder pedal pivots are 1/4" nylon snap grommets which accept the 1/4" studs projecting from thr bottom tube of the rudder pedal. The outboard pivots are mounted in an aluminum plug that slides in the bottom tube. This in turn is held in the extended position by a spring. The overhead shot of the pedal shows the spring. The knob used to retract the outboard pivot is simply a 1/4" bolt threaded into the aluminum plug.

The pivots carry only a very light load, as the rudder force is taken at the top of the pedal at the point the force is applied.

The force is applied to the front rudder levers just below the pedal pivot through a -10 Clevis.

Hopefully I have answered your question, Glenn!:eek:
 
link rod to gear tower clearance?

These look great. Very clever. How close does the link rod come to the gear tower? I thought that would be a problem when I was considering similar.

Also, it looks like the pedal can not swing forward very far without hitting the front edge of the foot well.

It might not be too difficult to add a brake pedal to the top of the pedal, with a second link rod to the forward pedal at the same height above the pivot.

Do please post some drawings.
 
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Rear Rudder Pedals

Ron and Steve,

I have not discovered how to post the drawings with sufficient size to be readable on VAF. So what I have done is created PDF files of the individual parts and assemblies that can be e-mailed.

If you can send me e-mail addresses that I can send the drawings to, I will be happy to send them.

Steve: The clearance to the gear tower is about 3/8". It comes very close to the triangular seat support at the forward side of the seat.

Ernie: Thank you for your kind words!
 
Rear Rudder Pedals

Craig,

I would love to have a copy of those drawings with the dimensions and descriptions of the individual components. I have Van's add-on pedal kit and have been trying to re-engineer something better. That looks like the perfect solution.

My email address is [email protected]
 
Craig, I too would like to be added to your list. I have the Van's rear seat pedals and I'm not very impressed with them.
 
Drawings

Craig,

If you would be so kind as to add me to the list of folks to email the drawings of your rudder pedal design I would greatly appreciate it.
My email is goodrv8 at gmail.com

I guess I did not look at you plane close enough when we met at the Pine Bluff formation clinic.


Thanks,

John
 
My Solution

I started with a setup very similar to Craig's but my legs are too long to comfortably use the pedals. So I went back to try and improve the stock setup. Here's a few pictures of what I did.

The first thing I changed was the idler arm. I moved the attachment to the rear pedal push rod up 2" to get the same mechanical advantage as the front pedals.

_DSC0212.JPG


IMG_0829.JPG


Then next thing I changed was the diameter of the push rods. I increased the diameter from 3/8" to 1/2" to increase the stiffness and reduce the chance of buckling.

_DSC0213.JPG


The third change was to get rid of the snap bushing that is used for the push rod guide and changed it to a plastic spherical bearing. This got rid of any slop and binding the stock set up had. The picture of the bracket above was the prototype and has been changed slightly to better match the stock geometry.

IMG_0826.JPG


The last modification I made is one that I think makes this set up (modified or stock) much more effective. I added a folding shelf that can be used to fill in the foot wells when there is a pilot in the rear seat. The shelf attaches to floor at the rear of the foot well and folds up so the foot well appears stock. When it is needed, it can be easily pulled up and automatically locks in the up position by dropping a leg down into the crotch of the foot well. When not needed, it is pulled up slightly and the leg is folded back and the shelf drops back into the foot well. The shelf greatly improves the ergonomics of the stock set up and I think makes the pedals more comfortable to use.

IMG_0827.JPG


IMG_0828.JPG


Here's a short video of the shelf.

http://youtu.be/spwKBDUFzLY

I can make any of these parts for anyone interested. Just PM or email me.

[email protected]
 
Craig, I would like to have your drawings

Craig,

I like your rear peddle design. Great solution! I would love to have your drawings. Thank you.

Dan Miller
RV-8 N3TU

Cdmiller131 at hotmail.com
 
Same here

If the drawings are still available, could you forward a copy please?

I had a high tail time friend land from the rear yesterday and the authority was terrible.

[email protected]

Thanks


Don
 
While waiting on a part from Vans to continue, I decided to make rudder pedals for the rear.

The button will be cut off and the rod threaded with a rod end bearing. Also the middle bracket will be eliminated reducing the chance of bending the rod.

I went to the ACE Hardware aviation section and picked up a bronze bushing and a steel sleeve. Being frugal, I repurposed the steel hinge bracket that came off the HS from the service bulletin. Brazed the steel sleeve to the bracket I cut in half.

The pivot is like an aileron bracket using the bushing and sleeve. Once the pedal is clecoed in place I’ll be able to determine where to attach the rod end bearing.

In the event I don’t want pedals back there anymore, I can pull the bolt and out it comes. And re-install is easy.

And of course some non skid tape will be added.

I looked thru the posts and didn’t see any others it like it. I’m hoping it won’t rub the seat cushion. If it does, I’ll make an improved version. After all, this was my first attempt and a few hours spent doing some I enjoy.
 

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Buttons, buttons, whose got the buttons………not me:cool:
 

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Pulling it all together

Here are my new rear pedals combined with the folding heal lifts. One is up and the other folded away.

The only snag I ran into is the idler arm is leaning slightly outboard and should be leaned more inboard to give clearance for the rudder cable and the mid cabin brace. Guess I didn’t see it when drilling the inboard hole on the mounts. Easy fix and replace mounts are inexpensive for the do-over.
 

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