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TSwezey?

F

fmarino1976

Well Known Member
Hi,

I was just reading a few past threads about alternative engines for the -10 and several of them mention your LS2 installation. I seem to remember that you had a thread detailing the progress of your aircraft, but I can't find it. How's the installation coming? Are you flying yet? I'm curious to know about this engine. Thanks.

Freddy.
 
Likewise Todd, keen to hear of your progress. Perhaps you could put the odd report on this thread from time to time? I for one would much appreciate it.

Have been going to the Vesta site now and then and it seems to have gone quiet, I think the last addition to was Dec 06 - I hope Jason is still on the case?? Also, am I correct that yours will be the only Vesta V8 flying?

Cheers Brett
 
I post periodically on different threads. I am currently working on getting the cowl fitted to the airplane. Our avionics guy has been busy with his real job. He works on avionics on Gulfstreams.So our panel installation is taking longer than expected. My building partner wants to have the plane completely done before we fly. I would say we are at least a month a way from the first test flight. The engine is holding us up right now it is just all the other stuff.
Todd
 
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What's happening?

TSwezey said:
I post periodically on different threads. I am currently working on getting the cowl fitted to the airplane. Our avionics guy has been busy with his real job. He works on avionics on Gulfstreams.So our panel installation is taking longer than expected. My building partner wants to have the plane completely done before we fly. I would say we are at least a month a way from the first test flight. The engine is holding us up right now it is just all the other stuff.
Todd
Click to expand...

Hey Todd, just checking in to see how that RV-10 is coming. I'm sure
there are a lot of details to take care of this close to completion. I'd
be interested in the weight and balance of the RV-10 with the V8
verses the IO-540 that others are running. Have you been able to
get it on scales yet?
 
We are going to put all the parts together for the first time this Sunday if it doesn't rain. I don't know if we will be able to weigh it at that time. But I would imagine within two or three weeks I should be able to get it on a scale. The wiring of everything has really slowed us down. Our avionics guy has been swamped at his real job so he has only been able to wire things for about 5 to 7 hours a week. The body work is also sucking up some time. We are going to try a engine run with the prop on Sunday if we can get everything wired beforehand.
 
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I just wanted to keep everybody informed on my progress with the Vesta V-8.

The instrument panel was finally finished last Sunday. It took forever. Things happen for a reason! You just don't know it at the time!

I received an email a couple of weeks ago from guy named David who lives in Australia. David has a Vesta V8 and has been running it hard on a test stand. He has successfully damaged his engine severly twice. The problem for him was two fold. One the timing trigger was not on the right position of the timing flywheel. It was firing late. The second problem was the timing program itself was firing too late also. He had to send his controller back to EC2 to have it reprogrammed. He just received it back two days ago and the engine is running great now. All I can say is "Thank God for David in Australia." He saved me a lot of head aches.

Luckily my panel took so long or else I probably would have blown my engine. My new problem is the controller has to be reprogrammed. The makers of the controller, EC2 or Tracy Crooks, will be on vacation until Sept 23. (I need a job like that!) I am going to have to wait at least a month before I can do any engine and flight testing. This will give me time to do the painting and all the other little stuff.
 
TSwezey said:
The makers of the controller, EC2 or Tracy Crooks, will be on vacation until Sept 23. (I need a job like that!) I am going to have to wait at least a month before I can do any engine and flight testing. This will give me time to do the painting and all the other little stuff.
Click to expand...
Todd,

Actually, Tracy does not have a job, he is retired (from Lockheed, I think).

Keep us posted on the RV-10. We'd like to know how the EC-2 works with a non-rotary engine.

Cheers,
Tracy.
 
Tracy Crooks is still working on getting the controller working correctly at low RPM's. The LS2 idles at a lower manifold pressure than was programmed into the controller. While they are figuring out the controller, we are painting the plane, finishing the interior, baffling and wheel pants. Plus my wife is about to have a baby any day soon! I am also waiting on a new prop from Vesta. I can't wait to get this thing flying! It's so close! Nov. 14 will be the 4 year mark.
Todd
 
CONGRATULATIONS AND CONGRATULATIONS

That's exciting! My wife is expecting our first kid, so I know how exciting this time is. And congratulations on your plane being so close to being done. I can't wait to hear how great it performs.
 
39 week quick build is done! Back to the slow build!

The quick build is done. (Pictured with her older sister) Probably won't fly the coop for another twenty years!

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Now back to that slow build!
 
The painting is almost done! The numbers are the plane. A couple of stripes on the fuselage and the cowl. Only five months with the painter! AAArrrgggghhhhh! I am now waiting on the PSRU and the Prop to come back from Vesta. They had some problems with the hub on the PSRU and a problem with the blades on the prop. I have been trying to set up transition training and sending in the paper work. The plane will be moved to KSAV (Savannah) about a week after the prop and PSRU get back. It's so close!
 
TSwezey said:
The painting is almost done! The numbers are the plane. A couple of stripes on the fuselage and the cowl. Only five months with the painter! AAArrrgggghhhhh! I am now waiting on the PSRU and the Prop to come back from Vesta. They had some problems with the hub on the PSRU and a problem with the blades on the prop. I have been trying to set up transition training and sending in the paper work. The plane will be moved to KSAV (Savannah) about a week after the prop and PSRU get back. It's so close!
Click to expand...

Todd,
Sounds like you're making progress and are almost there! Be sure to include some pictures from time to time as you progress. Lots of RV'ers following your progress.
 
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Too bad it was dark where I took these pictures. The colors are really the Blue and Red from the American Flag. The basic design came from Tim Olson's paint scheme. I would like to also thank Lee Logan for the help with the blue and Bryan Wood for the help with the red. Now all I need is my PSRU and prop back!
I am going to Texas on March 10th for transition training with Alex!
So close!
 
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Thanks! Hopefully I can put some of the pieces together on Sunday and we can all get a better look at the finished product.
 
Nice Job

Nice Work Todd. You blended the exits in nicely. I will be very interested in how well it cools. What was Jasons concern about the PSRU?
Bill Jepson
 
Jason was using an aluminum hub to hold the prop which wasn't strong enough. The bearings were starting to wear into the hub. He is switching it out for a steel hub. He is also switching my prop from an electrically adjusted to a hydraulic with an electric pump. He told me it would be another two or three weeks which means four to seven weeks at the minimum.
I am hoping that I have sufficient cooling. I might encounter problems at KSAV(Savannah) if I have long taxis and long holds on the ground on hot summer days. There shouldn't be any cooling problems once moving. There is plenty of radiator surface area and there should be some good flow through them.
 
Vesta flyers

TSwezey said:
Jason was using an aluminum hub to hold the prop which wasn't strong enough. The bearings were starting to wear into the hub. He is switching it out for a steel hub. He is also switching my prop from an electrically adjusted to a hydraulic with an electric pump. He told me it would be another two or three weeks which means four to seven weeks at the minimum.
I am hoping that I have sufficient cooling. I might encounter problems at KSAV(Savannah) if I have long taxis and long holds on the ground on hot summer days. There shouldn't be any cooling problems once moving. There is plenty of radiator surface area and there should be some good flow through them.
Click to expand...

Todd,
I'm glad you're making progress. Jason and I have locked horns a bit in the past. I really wish him well, (and you of course). There are always teething troubles on new designs. The key is weather the manufacturer is cautious enough to make no BIG errors that cost them so much that they fail later. I hope the replacement is at Vesta's expense?
Do you know if Vesta has any aircraft flying now? Don't worry I think the Vesta layout is sound. There have been several HI-VO reductions and they are strong enough. Does the Hyd/CS setup use 2 pumps? 1 for circulation and the govenor, or just the governor? I am interested.
Bil Jepson
 
Bill,
Jason is paying for all the repairs. I did pay for Tracy Crook to reprogram the controller for the engine. I think it was $65. I am pretty sure there is only one pump on the prop setup. I think someone might have been flying but he had PSRU troubles. I know there is one PSRU in front of me for repairs.
 
A question for you guys---------

There was a guy with a SeaBee powered by a Chevy V8, got a lot of press a couple of years ago, cover of EAA mag IIRC.

Anyone remember if this was a Vesta setup, if not, who??

Thanks.
 
Mike S said:
A question for you guys---------

There was a guy with a SeaBee powered by a Chevy V8, got a lot of press a couple of years ago, cover of EAA mag IIRC.

Anyone remember if this was a Vesta setup, if not, who??

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Robinson was the company doing those. Chain drive again. They have several thousand hours cumulatively on their setups. http://www.v8aircraft.com/
 
Ross-I forgot to congratulate you on getting the engine on and on gear. I saw it on the home page and I couldn't find the thread!
 
TSwezey said:
Ross-I forgot to congratulate you on getting the engine on and on gear. I saw it on the home page and I couldn't find the thread!
Click to expand...

Thanks. It's been a long time coming and yes, I'm still way behind you- just joshin'.

Great paint job BTW!
 
Mike S said:
A question for you guys---------

There was a guy with a SeaBee powered by a Chevy V8, got a lot of press a couple of years ago, cover of EAA mag IIRC.

Anyone remember if this was a Vesta setup, if not, who??

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Mike,
I think Ross beat me to the punch. The SeeBee unit was not Vesta. They have gotten some good hours out of the setup that was used. Heavy sucker with the long prop shaft for the high mounted pusher. Something like 69 pounds if memory serves. Though I would rather have heavy than unreliable. There have been several different Hi-VO chain PSRUs. The Hi-Vo is a strong unit, and can be had in many widths. There are two items of concern when designing these drives. First the chain runs on the sprocket like a gear. This is good (strong and quiet) and bad. The chains usually recomend an oil spray. Some people use a submerged system, but all the oil can get picked up and thrown to the sides of the casing, so a pressure feed of some kind is a good idea. Second the sprockets need to be steel faced for wear reasons. This means the sprocket set for 300 HP is usually around 35 pounds by itself. so the PSRU will usually be fairly heavy, at least 50 pounds for 200-300 HP. The last item is related to the sprocket/chain system in general. For a high reduction ratio the sprocket simply MUST be fairly far apart resulting in a large offset. On a V8 engine where you want to raise the thrust line or conversely lower the crankshaft the big offset is an advantage. If you are building for a compact engine, or a horizontally opposed engine like a Subaru the large offset is more of a bother than a help. Just some FYI.
Bill Jepson
 
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Bill,
You right about the weight of the PSRU. It is not light. The weight really doesn't bother me too much. I would rather have heavy and strong than light and weak. I think my PSRU is easily 60 lbs probably a little more. The Robinson conversion is really a great product. I believe Jason Day (Vesta) will get his PSRU to work well. It will probably take some more minor modifications.
 
Proof in the pudding.

TSwezey said:
Bill,
You right about the weight of the PSRU. It is not light. The weight really doesn't bother me too much. I would rather have heavy and strong than light and weak. I think my PSRU is easily 60 lbs probably a little more. The Robinson conversion is really a great product. I believe Jason Day (Vesta) will get his PSRU to work well. It will probably take some more minor modifications.
Click to expand...

Todd,
I am sure that Jason has the intelligence to make the product work. I made some comments about the setup some time back. We argued about the needs for under-cowl cooling for a V8. Jason and I went back and forth in the forum. Jason and I then took it to PM as I didn't want to harm his business. The messages sent privately convinced me that Jason understands what is needed to design a suitable system. The dual side exit with two large radiators is one of the setups I looked at, (and I'm still considering), for my rotary install. Jason and I worked it out and I encouraged him to post NEWER photos on the web site. (The original photos were what I was advising someone against, but he had already upgraded the radiators by then.) He needs to get some on aircraft photos to post. Your plane will be a great sales tool once flying. If you have seen any of my posts in the past you will know that I am a big supporter of alternate engines. My concern is that the providers of packages actually follow through on their promises. Jason seems to be doing that, and showing concern for servicing the customer after the sale, which is VERY important. The guys engineering new PRSUs need to understand that just a by-the-book overdesign rarely is tough enough because there are so many unknowns that are very hard to plan for.
A little side comment so you understand what I'm talking about. As a youngster I took a tecnical training course at Kawasaki. (I was 17) The course was excellent with two great instructors, who devised some truly diabolical final tests. When folks taking the course complained they replied, "We give you the toughest tests we can think of because in real life you will find things are ALWAYS WORSE!" The point? THEY WERE RIGHT!
Bill Jepson
 
Was it Vesta that originally incorporated a sprag clutch in the design? If not, anybody remember a V8 system that did?
 
Proof

Rotary10-RV said:
My concern is that the providers of packages actually follow through on their promises. Jason seems to be doing that, and showing concern for servicing the customer after the sale, which is VERY important. The guys engineering new PRSUs need to understand that just a by-the-book overdesign rarely is tough enough because there are so many unknowns that are very hard to plan for.

Bill Jepson
Click to expand...

Excellent post Bill. I have designed things using the engineering data say on a bearing with a 3X fudge factor on top of that even and guess what? It doesn't last sometimes. Many times there are unknown variables that we don't uncover until we build and run/test a design for a while. The proof is indeed in the pudding as your post heading states.

I'm all for applying the best analytical methods available to us in the design stage and then following up with instrumented testing but in the end, if it doesn't last for the design period, it is really no good.

If any of the alternate guys need to do more of something, it is in all 3 areas. I still don't understand why all vendors don't have their own test plane to do testing in the true application. I know that has helped our aviation sales immeasurably.

I am very happy to see Jason do what he says he will on his site for his customers but if I can offer one last piece of advice, it is best not to predict how well something will work until you do it and test if for a long time. Projected TBOs on new engines always make me laugh.

I was as guilty as many others thinking I was a pretty smart guy when it came to engines and related things and it would work really well. My real education started when I actually screwed the whole thing together and started to fly it. I couldn't have been more wrong about the first point. I know a lot more now but I'm sure I'll learn many more things on the next plane.

Todd, we are all following your project with great interest and I hope to have that fly off sometime with you.:)
 
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Ross speaking of how goes it?

rv6ejguy said:
I have designed things using the engineering data say on a bearing with a 3X fudge factor on top of that even and guess what? It doesn't last sometimes. Many times there are unknown variables that we don't uncover until we build and run/test a design for a while. The proof is indeed in the pudding as your post heading states.
Click to expand...
Ross, I have some questions on you RV-10 (and RV-6A) project'(s). I started a new thread, mostly about the Marcotte drive v. Eggies Gen III. Thanks George

New Thread: "Questions on Ross's EG33 Subie RV-10, Marcotte Drive" LINK
 
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rv6ejguy said:
I was as guilty as many others thinking I was a pretty smart guy when it came to engines and related things and it would work really well. My real education started when I actually screwed the whole thing together and started to fly it. I couldn't have been more wrong about the first point. I know a lot more now but I'm sure I'll learn many more things on the next plane.
Click to expand...

I think there is going to be a lot of trial and improvement. I would hate to say trial and error. I just spoke with Jason, I stalk him every other day, about the PSRU. He has been making improvements and hopefully will get mine to me soon.
 
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Elevator and rudder on. Trim tabs are hookep up.PSRU arrived back last week and was put back on Friday night. The prop is supposed to ship this week (Sure it is!) Not too much else to do until the prop comes back. I've been trying to take care of all the "little" things that haven't been finished yet but I am running out of them. The left wing tip lens vanished! I have to order a new one and re-cut it.
 
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It's really looking good, Todd. You and Dave are doing a great job on it. Can't wait to see it land at Ridgeland---and stay!!

Lee...
 
LS1/ LS6 EMS

Todd,

Not sure how your LS engine is coming along? There is an alternative now if Tracy can't get his ECU working for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ygV-9X3j2w

Plugs into the OEM sensors (MAP, CLT, knock, TPS, cam, crank) on 24 tooth reluctor wheel LS engines. We may develop software for the 58 tooth LS2/ LS3 engines later as well. Fires the OEM coils.

Can now do fuel and distributorless spark control on any V8 engine.

I enjoyed this R&D project. These are really sweet engines. Unbelievably smooth and one pound per hp from a stock production, 2 valve, pushrod engine is impressive.:cool:
 
Well the new prop and modified PSRU are back and on the plane. Here is a truly unprofessional video of the engine running.


www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uao4lJrwnk



Just have some minor electrical work and have to add an air intake to the cowl and it is off to the airport!
 
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