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Auto Fuel Transfer Tank

JordanGrant

Well Known Member
Fellas,
I want to acquire an autogas transfer tank for my truck in the near future. I want to be able to transport premium auto gas to my home (on an airpark) for use in my RV-6. I'm looking for advice/experience on a gasoline transfer tank setup for a pickup. Specifically, where can I find one in Idaho? What pump/filter setup do I need? Is anyone smart on the rules and regulations for safely transporting gasoline over Idaho or other state highways?

Thanks for any help you might have,
 
i bought a 30 gallon fuel cell from summit racing and installed an electric fuel pump, works great
 
Transfer Flow (transferflow.com) and ATI Tank (atitank.com) were the only two companies I found making tanks that were DOT-approved for gasoline when I looked into this a year or so ago. Somewhere, I have a copy of the DOT "special permits" for those two.
You can buy tanks at many places, but most are approved for diesel only. The gas-approved ones can get quite pricey. Let us know if you find any additional vendors!
 
You can buy tanks at many places, but most are approved for diesel only. The gas-approved ones can get quite pricey.

I wonder why a tank that is approved for diesel is not also approved for gas? Can someone explain this?
 
my thoughts

I wonder why a tank that is approved for diesel is not also approved for gas? Can someone explain this?
I am not an expert by any means but from my understanding of fuel, diesel is a harder fuel to ignite, it does not produce the same level of vapor that gasoline does. I believe the flash point for gasoline is much lower than diesel.

This is what my understanding of the differences are but I am sure there are others on here more knowledgeable than I am. Maybe they will chime in here.
 
Steel drums are legal for transporting gasoline. It's often sold that way for transport to remote locations. I've seen blue drums of Chevron unleaded gasoline as deck cargo on small freighters. Racing Methanol is also sold by the drum.
You can get a nice clean drum for less than $50, make up a hose & valve assembly, a grounding wire and a drum cradle. Strap it in the back of your pickup truck. The whole thing will be high enough to gravitate to a low wing aircraft, so you won't need a pump. You won't have to remove it from the vehicle to fill either.
I've seem steel drums dropped from 8 to 10 feet at work. They do get egg shaped, but don't burst or leak.
 
Filling the drum?

The steel drum is an idea, but I thought there were some legalities with filling it up, as well. Can you (legally) fill up a jerry-rigged steel drum in the back of your truck at the local gas station? Can you legally transport gasoline in a drum that has been opened and modified, or might it only be as sealed from the oil company? I'm just skeptical that it would be that easy to truly be legal.
 
I built this rig about 10 years ago from an old diesel truck tank. I welded on a new "boss" cut from another tank. Works great.

fuel_tank.JPG


Dual filters changed yearly. I've pumped over 5,000 gallons of fuel through this baby.
 
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The steel drum is an idea, but I thought there were some legalities with filling it up, as well. Can you (legally) fill up a jerry-rigged steel drum in the back of your truck at the local gas station? Can you legally transport gasoline in a drum that has been opened and modified, or might it only be as sealed from the oil company? I'm just skeptical that it would be that easy to truly be legal.

If the container once held fuel and was sold as such, it is legal to use again. usually the laws say you can't use things too fragile such as milk jugs or glass.
 
Here's mine...

The pics below are what I set up.

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- 50gal Tank - Fuel cube (It's placarded for "combustible", but not "flamable" fuels. I suspect this means no MOGAS. I have a vented fuel cap, so I don't see an issue...
- Ground strap
- Filter for removing particles and water
- 12V pump system - Gotta use those old PC-680's for something
- Cheap Harbor Freight trailer

I contacted the NC DOT to ask about the legality of dragging 50gal of gas on a trailer and they actually said it was legal as long as it was not over a certain (90gal I think) amount. Not sure how much this would help me in an accident, but I just don't want the troopers pulling me over on the way to the station. FWIW I only go about 2mi round trip to the service station and don't get on any busy highways.

Now if I could just find gas without ethanol...

Greg
RV-7A
 
Steel drum rigging

If the container once held fuel and was sold as such, it is legal to use again. usually the laws say you can't use things too fragile such as milk jugs or glass.

So you're saying, if I can find a clean 50-gallon drum then I might have an excuse to buy a welder and rig up something for the back of my truck. And it will be legal, and far cheaper than a purpose-built tank? I'm starting to like the idea, but I'm not totally convinced yet.
1) If I did a gravity-feed with no pump assembly, how can I filter the fuel? I think there are some funnels of some type that incorporate good filters - would that be good enough?
2) Water separation? How can I ensure water is separated from the fuel if I use gravity feed? I think there are "gascolator" type things that do this, no?

Larry/Greg, I like your rigs, but I don't want it on a trailer. I think I just want it in the back of the pickup.

Anybody know where I can get a clean, legit 50-gallon drum around Boise?
 
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So you're saying, if I can find a clean 50-gallon drum then I might have an excuse to buy a welder and rig up something for the back of my truck. And it will be legal, and far cheaper than a purpose-built tank? I'm starting to like the idea, but I'm not totally convinced yet.
1) If I did a gravity-feed with no pump assembly, how can I filter the fuel? I think there are some funnels of some type that incorporate good filters - would that be good enough?
2) Water separation? How can I ensure water is separated from the fuel if I use gravity feed? I think there are "gascolator" type things that do this, no?

Larry/Greg, I like your rigs, but I don't want it on a trailer. I think I just want it in the back of the pickup.

Anybody know where I can get a clean, legit 50-gallon drum around Boise?


no, not just any drum, it would have to have labels on it already for fuel, unleaded, racing gas, etc. Basically if it has labels on it for fuel you should be good at any refilling station.

check with engine shops that support racers, they often know where to get fuel or non pump fuel cans
 
Those labels are paper and fade with the weather and sun exposure, Also it's not important.
Gasoline is legal to transport in steel drums. You can paint it red and stencil GASOLINE on it.
You can buy a funnel/filter with mesh so tight it will hold water, but still pass fuel. the local aircraft supplier SPENCER AIRCRAFT sells them so they must be readily available anywhere quality toys are sold ;)
Or you can buy a FILLRITE filter and plumb it into the 3/4 bung on the drum, and the hose assembly.
A 'barrel truck' type hand truck made to tip the drum will help you decant the fuel to the plane if you feel the need to transport the drum in the vertical position. I just built a horizontal cradle, and strapped the drum in it so the large bung is at the top. you can easily get 40 gallons in without filling to the edge of the bung. That also means the small bung (3/4") is at the bottom. That's where the hose and control valve go.
Don't weld brackets on the drum, it will cause a stress riser that might allow the drum to leak if it is dropped or impacted. I've never heard of any problems with welding bungs on the side so you can top fill a drum that is laying in a cradle, but that is changing the drum.
The unmodified drum has the advantage that if it gets rusty or contaminated, you just get an other clean one, and mount it up for use.
 
Transfer Flow (transferflow.com) and ATI Tank (atitank.com) were the only two companies I found making tanks that were DOT-approved for gasoline when I looked into this a year or so ago. Somewhere, I have a copy of the DOT "special permits" for those two.
You can buy tanks at many places, but most are approved for diesel only. The gas-approved ones can get quite pricey. Let us know if you find any additional vendors!

Looks like those two both have auto gas approved rigs. The transferflow.com stuff looks nice...50-100 gallon tank for truck mounting with everything for about $1,000.
 
Looks like those two both have auto gas approved rigs. The transferflow.com stuff looks nice...50-100 gallon tank for truck mounting with everything for about $1,000.

The TransferFlow guys go out of their way to say that their stuff shouldn't be used in connection with aircraft. ATI, on the other hand, specifically mention AvGas. $1000 is a lot, though, when I can rig a 50-gallon drum up for gravity feed for probably less than $200. And apparently still be legal. I'm definitely leaning that way.
 
Any good resources for finding ETOH free premium out there. I've found it all but impossible in Illinois. Any Mogas websites or resources out there??? I like all the solutions discussed here for transport but finding the fuel is my problem. I'm about to move up toward St Louis, maybe I'll have better luck in MO.

Thanks

Grant
 
Flying J has ethanol free gas

Any good resources for finding ETOH free premium out there. I've found it all but impossible in Illinois. Any Mogas websites or resources out there??? I like all the solutions discussed here for transport but finding the fuel is my problem. I'm about to move up toward St Louis, maybe I'll have better luck in MO.

Thanks

Grant

In Idaho, Flying J still has ethanol-free fuel. For now. I'll use that at first, but I anticipate trying out some 10% blend eventually. My Airflow Performance fuel injection doesn't care, but I do need to verify the ethanol tolerance of a few other fuel components.
 
Any good resources for finding ETOH free premium out there. I've found it all but impossible in Illinois. Any Mogas websites or resources out there??? I like all the solutions discussed here for transport but finding the fuel is my problem. I'm about to move up toward St Louis, maybe I'll have better luck in MO.

Thanks

Grant

Grant, try the local marinas. Boaters really don't like ETOH.
The dock closest to me has 90 octane no ethanol gas.
 
Thanks Randy, I'll give that a try.

I did 30 minutes hunting around google on the subject and found a site that says MO premium is not REQUIRED to have ETOH so maybe there's hope there too. Other grades require 10%.
 
Can anyone point me to the actual regulation that governs the transportation of gasoline by private individuals for their own use? I've looked all over and can't seem to find it.
 
Never could find it

So I wanted to know the exact same thing (actual rules for transporting gasoline). I was unable to find it for Idaho, so I actually called up the Idaho dept of transportation, and one of the folks there in the enforcement division called me back. I asked about what the restrictions were on private citizens transporting gas. They could not tell me where to find the rules, but when I just explained that wanted to put a 50 gallon drum of fuel in the back of my pickup and carry it around, they said it would be fine.
The best I can tell is that a certain amount of gas (I often saw 100 gallons listed) is when it seems that the restrictions start to kick in. I think its designed to regulate commercial operations, so if you're just hauling enough gas to fill up your RV from the local gas station, no one seems to care.

Good luck, and be sure to post if you find the actual rules!
 
The only thing I could find that I think might apply is this:


(d) Functions not subject to the requirements of the HMR. The
following are examples of activities to which the HMR do not apply:

(1) Storage of a freight container, transport vehicle, or package
containing a hazardous material at an offeror facility prior to a
carrier taking possession of the hazardous material for movement in
transportation in commerce or, for a private motor carrier, prior to a
motor vehicle drivertaking physical possession of the hazardous material for movement in transportation in commerce.
(2) Unloading of a hazardous material from a transport vehicle or a
bulk packaging performed by a person employed by or working under
contract to the consignee following delivery of the hazardous material
by the carrier to its destination and departure from the consignee's
premises of the carrier's personnel or, in the case of a private
carrier, departure of the driver from the unloading area.
(3) Storage of a freight container, transport vehicle, or package
containing a hazardous material after its delivery by a carrier to the
destination indicated on a shipping document, package marking, or other
medium, or, in the case of a rail car, storage of a rail car on private
track.
(4) Rail and motor vehicle movements of a hazardous material
exclusively within a contiguous facility boundary where public access is
restricted, except to the extent that the movement is on or crosses a
public road or is on track that is part of the general railroad system
of transportation, unless access to the public road is restricted by
signals, lights, gates, or similar controls.
(5) Transportation of a hazardous material in a motor vehicle,
aircraft, or vessel operated by a Federal, state, or local government
employee solely for noncommercial Federal, state, or local government
purposes.
(6) Transportation of a hazardous material by an individual for non-
commercial purposes in a private motor vehicle, including a leased or
rented motor vehicle.



Which is from the following document:

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 2]
[Revised as of October 1, 2010]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR171.1]

[Page 76-80]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER I--PIPELINE AND HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY ADMINISTRATION,
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

PART 171_GENERAL INFORMATION, REGULATIONS, AND DEFINITIONS--
 
Just do a drum or tank and be done. How many ppl do you think actually get pulled over so the officer can check whats in the drum/tank? Never heard of it. Just get a good tank or a good drum, and be done. The company I work for transports haz waste all day long. They are the ones that get messed with because they are operating under Commercial Regs. Private parties will probably never have a problem.

You can get a UN rated drum, throw a flammable sticker on it, and be done if you want to be "legal".

Some of these guys on here could spend $50,000 trying to do a $1,000 job. :rolleyes:
 
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Some of these guys on here could spend $50,000 trying to do a $1,000 job. :rolleyes:

True enough, but there's nothing wrong with wanting to be in compliance with the law. And just because someone on an Internet forum says something is legal doesn't mean it is. I prefer to read the reg myself and decide what it means. Money has nothing to do with it.
 
Here you go, folks. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=OR just click on your state.

Currently there are 2697 sites selling unblended fuel in the US, and those are just the ones known about...We can thank the boaters for this. They raised enough H**l with their legislatures to get 'er done...

Be sure you verify that the listings on the site are still valid. The three stations that are listed for my locale haven't had "pure" gas for over a year.
 
I, too would like to see and read the actual rules which are likely to vary somewhat from state to state and which are probably address under some federal DOT regulations.

What I was told by my son, who holds a Class A CDL with tanker and hazmat endorsements that for an auxiliary tank which is used to carry additional fuel for the vehicle carrying it anything which meets the federal regulations about being at least as safe as the OEM installation is OK regardless of its capacity. But that a transfer tank such as is being discussed here can not be more than 100 gals without running into the requirement for a CDL and a few other federal regulations. Apparently less than 100 gals is not covered by the feds, but may run into local/state rules.
 

I did take a good look at that one Mike, it honestly did not answer my questions. It stated what requirements the tanks meet, but does not say if a person using a portable fuel tank for personal use has to use a tank meeting those standards. Everything I read seems to indicate that anything less than 100 gal and not used commercially is essentially unregulated.
 
Fire Extinguisher?

I built this rig about 10 years ago from an old diesel truck tank. I welded on a new "boss" cut from another tank. Works great.

fuel_tank.JPG


Dual filters changed yearly. I've pumped over 5,000 gallons of fuel through this baby.

Larry,
Have you thought of adding a fire extinguisher to your rig?
 
Be sure you verify that the listings on the site are still valid. The three stations that are listed for my locale haven't had "pure" gas for over a year.

Good point Sam! Even though I use a station that is listed on www.pure-gas.org, I test the fuel *every time* before transferring it from the five gallon jugs to my plane. If it ever tests for alcohol, my wife's sportscar will get 15 gallons of premium gas to suck on, and I'll search for a new source.
 
fuel tank

heres what ive done in my thirty years of fueling my 7ac champ
long time ago i got a 30 gal plastic boat tank and built a plywood box and hauled it in the back of my pickup the box kelp rain off my tank and i stored the hose to keep it clean inside box i used a 12v international harvester fuel pump it pumped about a gal a min and i pre flighted plane while taking on fuel i used a large fuel filter from napa with a clear bottom to see water never seen any worked to fill up lawn mower too
i didnt have a ground wire and i still here your choice
never ran mo gas in my rv but might consider in future
bob willis
 
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