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Facts or insightful opinions please...

N29945

Active Member
Background: ATP, 14K TT, 5 jet type ratings, aircraft owned, RV6, Waco UPF-7, J3, Legend on anfibs various Cessnas and Pipers, planes sold, life happens, right now I am in the market for an RV6 or 7, prefer slider and steam gauges.
This is the issue I have, in some research I have done I have seen some pictures of RV pilots that have ended up upside down on the ground from a bad landing or landing incident.
Question, if I were ever find myself in such a predicament, how do I get out, I have never noticed a crash ax in an RV. Which canopy would be preferably. I cannot see any way to get out of an inverted RV with a tip-up canopy.
Am I missing something...... Thanks for your reply...

Thank everyone for their thought provoking responses, I have not been a part of a thoughtful discussion like that about the challenges of landing inverted in a long time..
I can sleep well tonight because I know VAF is alive and well!
I will equip my RV with some of the equipment recommended!
 
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Breaking the canopy

Hi,

I have a slider RV-6. I've always left the RH stick removable (despite of the of the SB regarding it) and have a pointed steel slug welded in the bottom of it.

I think I can do a fair bit of damage to the canopy with it if I need to get out upside down, plus if the PAX gets unruly, well.....
 
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Background: ATP, 14K TT, 5 jet type ratings, aircraft owned, RV6, Waco UPF-7, J3, Legend on anfibs various Cessnas and Pipers, planes sold, life happens, right now I am in the market for an RV6 or 7, prefer slider and steam gauges.
This is the issue I have, in some research I have done I have seen some pictures of RV pilots that have ended up upside down on the ground from a bad landing or landing incident.
Question, if I were ever find myself in such a predicament, how do I get out, I have never noticed a crash ax in an RV. Which canopy would be preferably. I cannot see any way to get out of an inverted RV with a tip-up canopy.
Am I missing something...... Thanks for your reply...

Not too sure it matters which canopy you have if you end up on your back. I have seen a couple slider accidents where they have ended up on their back and broke the plexiglass enough so they could get out. About 10 yrs ago we had a 7A on our field run off the side of the runway and flip. The canopy was cracked and he kicked it until he had broken a hole large enough to crawl out. He was OK and fixed the plane in about 8mths. Still flying today.

I keep a small hatchet tool from Lee Valley in my 7 tipper just in case. Some tests people have done show that a hatchet is the best tool for breaking the canopy. Have not tried it myself and hope I never get the chance.:)
 
Welcome to VAF

Jim, welcome aboard the good ship VAF.

I know of at least 3 times folks have been able to crawl out of RVs that have ended up on their canopies.

One 8 and two 9s.
 
I carry "The Snapper" in my panel box. Allan Nimmo opines that the canopy, in the vast majority of tipover cases, cracks. It's therefore susceptible to breaking it out further. It sounds reasonable, but I've never crashed an RV so I don't know.

https://antisplataero.com/products/the-snapper
 

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If a forced or bad landing finishes with you upside down, you’re probably going to need to break your way out with either style of canopy. I have a Lifehammer mounted in my RV to assist in an inverted exit. The roll bar position may be a consideration in deciding which canopy you prefer.
 
I previously flew a -6A from a grass field and now fly a -8 from a paved runway but still land on grass occasionally. In my -8, I have a Flyboy Accessories chisel style canopy breaker strapped on the left sidewall, a canopy snapper from AntiSplat velcroed next to it, an automobile rescue hammer zip tied to the roll bar near my right shoulder accessible to the rear seat passenger, a glass breaker and a short bladed knife clipped to my right pants pocket, and an Outdoor Element Fire Escape carabiner clipped to the strap above my left shirt pocket. Yes, I like to collect gadgets but I’ve also walked away from one crash and have had two other engine malfunctions that ended in safe landings. I want to have as many ways to break out the canopy if I ever flip the airplane as I possibly can. I figure if I have rescue tools on both sides of the cockpit and additional tools strapped on, I should be able to reach at least one even if I’ve suffered a broken arm or other injuries. I also have a PLB clipped to a belt loop that I can activate once clear of the aircraft. I plan to add a Garmin InReach soon and also plan to upgrade to a 406 ELT at the next condition inspection.
 
Or putting a taildragger down in cutover timber can also result in flipping the airplane. I have a friend who lost power in a Kitfox on takeoff and steered it to a great touchdown - until it hit the log. He walked away, but is now flying a different Kitfox.
 
Any suitable canopy breaking tool is essential. As an additional precaution I installed a fuel pump "G" switch that would remove power from the fuel pump on impact, preventing fuel flow to the engine compartment. I know a lot of air show pilots use a similar setup for their fuel and smoke systems.
 
Yes, I like to collect gadgets but I’ve also walked away from one crash and have had two other engine malfunctions that ended in safe landings. I want to have as many ways to break out the canopy if I ever flip the airplane as I possibly can. I figure if I have rescue tools on both sides of the cockpit and additional tools strapped on, I should be able to reach at least one even if I’ve suffered a broken arm or other injuries. I also have a PLB clipped to a belt loop that I can activate once clear of the aircraft. I plan to add a Garmin InReach soon and also plan to upgrade to a 406 ELT at the next condition inspection.

About that ride in your -8... Never mind. :eek:

-Marc
 
Breaking the Canopy

A group of us here in SoCal did some experiments with an RV-9A carcass, rolling the fuselage upside down with my CFI wife and an RV-7A owner friend strapped inside. Short version, we learned: Best to stay strapped in and upside down while coping with making an opening in the canopy (if it’s not already broken). The machined aluminum canopy breaker tools and automotive window breaker hammers are virtually useless on an acrylic (Plexiglass) canopy. A hatchet works pretty well, especially if you can aim your blows to hit near the windshield bow or the canopy side rails.
 
A group of us here in SoCal did some experiments with an RV-9A carcass, rolling the fuselage upside down with my CFI wife and an RV-7A owner friend strapped inside. Short version, we learned: Best to stay strapped in and upside down while coping with making an opening in the canopy (if it’s not already broken). The machined aluminum canopy breaker tools and automotive window breaker hammers are virtually useless on an acrylic (Plexiglass) canopy. A hatchet works pretty well, especially if you can aim your blows to hit near the windshield bow or the canopy side rails.

Is the “machined aluminum canopy breaker tool” you mentioned the one from Flyboy Accessories, a short thick rod with a flat point on one end and the other end rounded? I may have to find a place to strap a hatchet in my -8!
 
I have two orange canopy/glass breaker tools(one mounted on each side of the fuel valve channel cover) in my cockpit down by my legs. I also have a small ball ping hammer tucked away in the copilot’s side pocket. While hopefully I will never have to test these two methods in real life, I feel somewhat confident about getting out of the airplane upside down. I have the tip up canopy.

However all this being said, I firmly believe the best insurance against winding up upside down is the Antisplat nose job kit. I once experienced a number of severe porpoise landings trying to land with an extremely aft cg (my own stupidity) and can attest to the strength and value of this product. I’m convinced it saved me from a “very bad day.” The bottom of my nose gear fairing still shows the results of this stupidity.
 
Any recommendation for a fuel pump "g" switch? I'm not finding much.

Thanks,
Dave

Dave,
Any quality automotive fuel pump shutoff switch will work. Be sure it is one that has a 360° range of motion and has a built in reset switch. I mounted mine on the pilots side under the fuel pump cover and drilled a 1" access hole for resetting the switch.
Check E-Bay, there are many types available for under $50.
 
Yessir, That One

werxcv01: yes, that tool. Hangups with it are that it’s too light for something at the end of your arm and the point goes dull almost immediately. The Antisplat canopy snapper actually looks pretty good. We did not test one but got good results breaking off bits of plastic with a pair of waterpump pliers. It’s a bit of a slow process but it works. We have a hatchet like this one: https://www.target.com/p/stansport-...VByGtBh3CWAUlEAQYGyABEgLtNvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds. This link is to Target but it and similar ones are available at sporting goods stores and better hardware stores. We got ours at Coast Marine in SoCal.
We stow it under the right seat in our tip-‘em-up RV-6. It has some paracord wrapped around it and we moved the firestarter to our survival kit.
Finding a place for the tool is hard. RVs are tight inside and its hard to find a spot that’s out of the way but still easily reachable when the moment arrives. We THINK we can get ours out without making the right seater unbuckle. One RV-6 owner mounted a military-type canopy knife on the right side of the throttle pedestal. Without the pedestal, under the seat cushions on say, an RV-8 might work. You’d be surprised how far from the seat you end up when inverted, even with the belt tight. As usual, YMMV and you might find yourself choosing from a variety of mediocre solutions. I had thoughts about mounting our hatchet on the floor in front of the pedestal and next to the fire extinguisher, but I doubt we could reach it from the pilot’s chair, especially when hanging from the belt. Its worthwhile to sit in the airplane and reach around the cockpit, and also to practice (in slow motion!) your swing. “You will not rise to the occasion. You will sink to the level of your training.” My nightmare is having to hurry the emergency egress process when a fire starts and nobody is nearby to help. Fly safe!
 
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... I had thoughts about mounting our hatchet on the floor in front of the pedestal and next to the fire extinguisher, but I doubt we could reach it from the pilot’s chair, especially when hanging from the belt. Its worthwhile to sit in the airplane and reach around the cockpit, and also to practice (in slow motion!) your swing. ...
Thanks for this - really helpful. My breaker tool is an escape knife, and I have it strapped to the seatbelt but didn't really consider if I could reach while suspended upside down. I will test this, and probably move it further up.

https://www.victorinox.com/ch/en/Pr...s/Large-Pocket-Knives/RescueTool/p/0.8623.MWN

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Centerpunches and Swiss Army Knives

The spring-loaded automatic center punch works fine on glass or safety glass. We didn't test that on the plastic canopy but I'm pretty sure the results would be similar to using one of those automotive window breaker hammers, the ones with the conical striking surfaces, which we did test. They made nice little dents in the plexiglass, but did not start cracks.
I always have my swiss army knife in my pocket. (well, except on airliners and at concerts, when we still did such things) I don't see much on the knife that would be helpful in cracking a plastic canopy. Plexiglass is surprisingly tough. Hmmm! Strapping the tool to the seatbelt. Awkward for a hatchet, but a heavy, military canopy knife....? I think that's a great idea!
 
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Tough one.

YouTube https://youtu.be/vOoMCk_SBy4
There's got to be a better way this was a 6A.

I've heard stories of Huey pilots in Viet Nam using a Gerber Mk II to cut themselves out plexiglass, aluminum skin - that's a pretty useful tool.
 
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I sharpened the tips and heel of a hefty Crescent wrench. The sharp points and heft help break the canopy and to snap off the sharp edges, I open the jaws a bit.

Best of all, I have a useful tool with me wherever I go.

V

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lots of good info on breakout tools here. Seems like one of the issues might also be the cramped quarters restricting your movement when upside down, as well as the gap available to squeeze out after breaking the plexi. I owned an RV-3 for a short time and I doubt that the restricted interior space and gap between the ground and sill would have made any escape possible even without injuries. I believe the Aussie RV-6 from a previous post required assistance from outside to egress. I also remember an article about a VariEze pilot being stuck upside down on Owens (dry) Lake in CA for 5 hours before rescue. The Spitfires had a cool little door below the canopy on the left side to aid entry/egress. I guess something like that could be retrofitted with some weight penalty.

As far as Van's aircraft, the -14 gives the most interior room and large side area on the canopy (low sill height) and might be the easiest to get out of when inverted
 
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And it’s better to also have a left handed version for the passenger side!

I sharpened the tips and heel of a hefty Crescent wrench. The sharp points and heft help break the canopy and to snap off the sharp edges, I open the jaws a bit.

Best of all, I have a useful tool with me wherever I go.

V

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