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Van's VS Screaming Eagle VS Bell tailwheel? Which is best?

apkp777

apkp777

Well Known Member
I am looking at my tail wheel and can see that the stock Van's tailwheel leaves something to be desired.

First, it has a near vertical front end that certainly won't "ride" over sharp edges (concrete transitions) very well.

Second, I am 6'3" and find that while taxiing my -9 I have to "S" turn to get a clear view ahead. A tail wheel that sits a bit higher would be great.

Third, I have a slightly tail heavy plane and a lighter tailwheel assembly would go a long way to helping my CG.

I see that many have gone with other model tailwheels. What are the pros and cons of the various models. I am only aware of the "Screaming Eagle/Vince Frazier" and Bell models. There may be more?

I like the looks of the Screaming Eagle, but the Bell looks solid also?
 
I've got the Frazier tailwheel fork and it works great. I suspect that any design other this one and Vans will be heavier.
 
Are you looking for a tailwheel fork or a tailwheel or both?

Alex De Dominicis has a tailwheel fork very similar to the Bell: http://www.shop.aviationtechproducts.com/category.sc?categoryId=12

Personally I don't mind the fork I have (stock Vans) as much as the tailwheel (Flyboy Accessories blue), which is sure noisy when taxiing. I'd like to try a foamed or pneumatic tire but there don't seem to be any very good options out there.

--Paul
 
Garage Guy said:
Are you looking for a tailwheel fork or a tailwheel or both?

Alex De Dominicis has a tailwheel fork very similar to the Bell: http://www.shop.aviationtechproducts.com/category.sc?categoryId=12

Personally I don't mind the fork I have (stock Vans) as much as the tailwheel (Flyboy Accessories blue), which is sure noisy when taxiing. I'd like to try a foamed or pneumatic tire but there don't seem to be any very good options out there.

--Paul
Click to expand...

I guess possibly both the fork and the wheel itself would perhaps help.

Today while landing at a nearby grass strip (In a Warrior) they have a great soft field but have a paved taxiway. The transition is 2 or 3 inches and I can see the stock Van's fork getting hung up on it.
 
Fork

I have Bell on my -8 and my friend Allen has Vince Frasier's on his -8. Either is a drop in replacement and far better than Van's.

The Bell raised the tail enough to make an improvement in the sight picture over the nose.
 
mannanj said:
I have Bell on my -8 and my friend Allen has Vince Frasier's on his -8. Either is a drop in replacement and far better than Van's.

The Bell raised the tail enough to make an improvement in the sight picture over the nose.
Click to expand...

It looks like the Bell also moves the wheel slightly forward. Maybe a few inches. Is that correct?

Any idea how much taller the Bell is than the stock?
 
Tony

It has been so long since I replaced mine---I won't pass out any numbers. Go back to the archives and pull up the first Bell Tailwheel post started by Paul Dye (Ironflight). Somewhere in the hundreds of replies, someone did a photo comparison, I believe with a ruler in the shots.

I know this doesn't help a lot in this modern day of "instant gratification".
 
I have the Frazier tailwheel fork and it has many advantages, but the one that stood out for me is that it readily adapts to Van's tailwheel fairing, if you are so inclined. Actually, I got two Frazier forks. One for rough fields without the fairing and one with for paved strips:

001.jpg


022pp.jpg


Other advantages are more obstacle clearance, reduced pedal force while taxiing, and less side load on the spring knuckle. This side load has been the cause for the AN3 bolts shearing on the knuckle in a lot of cases. The increased visibility over the nose is minimal but noticeable.
 
I have flown with three of the various types - API, Van's, and Bell. We also own one of the Aviationtech "Bell Clones", but haven't flown it yet - I expect there will be no difference between it and the Bell (noticeable from the cockpit).

Van's, Vince's, Bell and AviationTech all use the same "Knuckle" on the end of the tail wheel spring - you don't have to change it. They all also use the same steering arm and axle bolt. The API has it's own shaft diameter (slightly less than Van's), so you have to use their knuckle and steering arms - as well as a different axle, which means different bearings. If you buy that one, you have to match drill the two holes to the spring for the mounting bolts. Not a big Deal, but it takes an hour (and careful measurement).

The API, Bell, and AviationTech all look similar - rounded forks that are really pretty looking and have the greatest ground clearance - the wheel will hit ANYTHING before the fork will. Vince's and Van's are more like heavy "sheet" wrapped around to the axles. Vince's has far better ground clearance than Van's.

When I changed to the API on the Valkyrie, it was pretty much the only easily available option. if I were to change it out today, I'd go with the Bell or AviationTech for commonality purposes with the rest of the "fleet". It is a pain to need a different wheel and steering arm. Not that they have to be changed all that often, but I like commonality. I haven't used Vince's, but have read nothing but good things about it.

While there are different heights involved, my personal experience is that an inch or two of tail height disappears if you squirm in your seat just a tad, or sit differently, or the cushions are cold rather than hot. Minor irregularities in a turf runway will matter more than which wheel you have - unless you get one of those monster tundra tailwheels of course....;)

That's about all my experience with the different wheels - I have a few hundred hours with each, and honestly, they all fly about the same (in my opinion) within the normal variations of RV'ating.

Paul
 
Pat Hatch said:
I have the Frazier tailwheel fork and it has many advantages, but the one that stood out for me is that it readily adapts to Van's tailwheel fairing, if you are so inclined. Actually, I got two Frazier forks. One for rough fields without the fairing and one with for paved strips:

001.jpg


022pp.jpg


Other advantages are more obstacle clearance, reduced pedal force while taxiing, and less side load on the spring knuckle. This side load has been the cause for the AN3 bolts shearing on the knuckle in a lot of cases. The increased visibility over the nose is minimal but noticeable.
Click to expand...

That definitely looks like it sits higher. Also, looks like it would be unlikely to catch on anything.

Seems like Paul has had good results with the Bell.

Looks like I'll just have to make decision. Maybe it'll come down to who has them available in stock.
 
apkp777 said:
That definitely looks like it sits higher. Also, looks like it would be unlikely to catch on anything.

Seems like Paul has had good results with the Bell.

Looks like I'll just have to make decision. Maybe it'll come down to who has them available in stock.
Click to expand...

its not easy getting a bell.... :( Its been probably 2 months since I requested mine, and havent heard anything yet. :(
 
Tony,

Not sure if you mentioned the Aviation Products, Inc. tailwheel fork, but that would be another possibility for you. I had one on the RV-7 and we really liked it. It's heavier, but very smooth and rugged. You will have to drill the knuckle for Van's tail spring which takes a little time and effort. Also, you have to make sure it's reamed for the RV tail spring. You can call Karen at 805-646-6042 if you are interested. I think we paid about $240. They also have a single arm version, but I would recommend the dual arm.

I believe that any of these "improved" tailwheel forks will reduce the side loads on the knuckle bolts, but that doesn't mean they can't shear. They will. And a lot of folks have been converting to taper pins instead of bolts for that reason. Just wanted to clarify that point.
 
ordered my bell before my empennage kit!

daniel get ready for a bit of a wait... i ordered my bell tailwheel fork just before my empennage kit... it took 18 months for the fork to make it to me!

img3883f.jpg
 
Pat Hatch said:
Tony,

Not sure if you mentioned the Aviation Products, Inc. tailwheel fork, but that would be another possibility for you. I had one on the RV-7 and we really liked it. It's heavier, but very smooth and rugged. You will have to drill the knuckle for Van's tail spring which takes a little time and effort. Also, you have to make sure it's reamed for the RV tail spring. You can call Karen at 805-646-6042 if you are interested. I think we paid about $240. They also have a single arm version, but I would recommend the dual arm.

I believe that any of these "improved" tailwheel forks will reduce the side loads on the knuckle bolts, but that doesn't mean they can't shear. They will. And a lot of folks have been converting to taper pins instead of bolts for that reason. Just wanted to clarify that point.
Click to expand...

Pat, yes I am considering that one API (Aviation Technical Products website). I am guessing that this is the "Bell Clone". Not sure about that. I am just now learning about the different options. It seems that it might be mostly personal preference between the various options. I have read many of the archived threads and it seems no one has anything bad to say about any of them (except Van's).
 
[email protected] said:
daniel get ready for a bit of a wait... i ordered my bell tailwheel fork just before my empennage kit... it took 18 months for the fork to make it to me!

img3883f.jpg
Click to expand...

There's no doubt, that is a nice looking tailwheel. Who do you contact to get in the que for one? I don't think I want to wait 18 months though. I have read that the que gets shuffled based on your flight status?
 
Don't confuse the API (Aviation Products?) with the AviationTech wheels. They look very similar, both work GREAT, but as I mentioned above in my comparison, the AviationTech is a slide-in replacement for the Van's, using the same knuckle/arm, axle, wheel, bearings, etc, and the API uses a different Knuckle, shaft, arm, axle, etc....

Two different companies with similar names. If you are talking to Ojai, CA, you are talking API. AviationTech is in Texas. If you want a Bell clone right away, call Texas.

HTH

Paul
 
depends...

apkp777 said:
I am looking at my tail wheel and can see that the stock Van's tailwheel leaves something to be desired.

First, it has a near vertical front end that certainly won't "ride" over sharp edges (concrete transitions) very well.

Second, I am 6'3" and find that while taxiing my -9 I have to "S" turn to get a clear view ahead. A tail wheel that sits a bit higher would be great.

Third, I have a slightly tail heavy plane and a lighter tailwheel assembly would go a long way to helping my CG.

I see that many have gone with other model tailwheels. What are the pros and cons of the various models. I am only aware of the "Screaming Eagle/Vince Frazier" and Bell models. There may be more?

I like the looks of the Screaming Eagle, but the Bell looks solid also?
Click to expand...

I have the Bell, it's a work of art, has the best clearance and does improve the forward vis a bit. Lots of airport people with an eye for detail check it out when looking over my plane. Friend got the Frazier one. It's built very nicely too and it's advantage is that it easily gives you enough surface area to attached a tail wheel fairing on it. Friend did that but after a while took the fairing back off and I haven't seen it on his plane for a while. Guess it was more trouble than it was worth and defeated the clearance issue which was why he swapped out tail wheels in the first place.

If I wasn't gung ho on mounting a tail wheel fairing, I'd get the Bell IF I could live with the wait. For me it was about 6 months.
 
Well I think we've covered about all your options, Tony. Here is a picture of the Aviation Products, Inc. (API) tailwheel (thanks, Larry). As Paul mentioned, this one requires a little extra work because it comes with it's own knuckle, as you can see. Not a big deal to install, though. I think you could also consider this one in the "Bell" category. They are all good choices, personal preference.

http://blog.bowenaero.com/?p=88
 
Ironflight said:
Don't confuse the API (Aviation Products?) with the AviationTech wheels. They look very similar, both work GREAT, but as I mentioned above in my comparison, the AviationTech is a slide-in replacement for the Van's, using the same knuckle/arm, axle, wheel, bearings, etc, and the API uses a different Knuckle, shaft, arm, axle, etc....

Two different companies with similar names. If you are talking to Ojai, CA, you are talking API. AviationTech is in Texas. If you want a Bell clone right away, call Texas.

HTH

Paul
Click to expand...

AHHHH! I was confused (not the first or last time). Thus the reason for this thread.
 
I have flown with the Vans, Frazier and Bell on my -8,all with the Silver Bullet link . I currently have the Bell installed . The Bell or Frazier are both very good parts and you will be happy with either one.I personally think the Vans TW is a bad design . Love the silver bullet but some have had a very difficult time getting them or haven't been able to get one at all .
 
Phooey;)

Just a piece of 1" plate from the scrap aluminum bin. Bandsaw the "L" shape, drill two holes, hacksaw a slot, and it's ready to clamp on the spring.....5 minutes for layout, maybe 15 minutes to make, and another 10 to drill the block and counterdrill the socket.
 
airtractor8 said:
I agree Alex, I thought that the chinese comment was misleading and un called for....
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just meant it looks like a copy of the Bell. In my world of Aviation we call that a Chinese Blueprint. No offense to the Chinese. I am sure it saves them a bundle on engineering.

I am sure the "clone" Bell tailwheels are great. I am considering buying one. Don't think that they didn't look at the Bell before they made it though. Still the Aviation Technical Products tailwheel is a great looking tailwheel. More than likely that's the one I am going to get.
 
Last edited:
Bell

I had the opportunity to handle a Bell tail wheel fork last night. (no, I wasn't dreaming). A friend has one for his -8 project. I have to say it REALLY looks and feels great! Near perfect construction. I tried to get out of his shop with it in my pocket but didn't make it.
 
Alex D said:
If Colorado USA is China, then they are Chinese. They are made in Colorado and sold out of Texas.
Alex
Click to expand...

I have one of Alex tail fork in my 8 and looks and works great!!!

I wanted to buy Bell fork but I didn't want to wait for month, then Alex offer me the one that he made in Colorado (or China haha) and I am very happy with it.

If I build another RV tail dragger I will go with Alex tail fork since begining.
 
I'm very partial to the Screaming Eagle tailwheel. ;-)

FWIW, it's made in Mount Vernon, Indiana and we almost always have them in stock. No promises, but we've yet to make anyone wait more than a few weeks to get one of our forks.

Thanks to those who said nice things about our tailwheel. We do our best to keep up with some very tough competitors!

Ain't it great to have choices...something us old timers wouldn't have imagined when we were laying out all those rivets long before prepunched came along!

Vince
 
Bell Fork timeline updates

Yesterday I had a larger than normal amount of emails come to me asking about Dad's "Bell Tailfork" and from builders and flyers on the order list already checking their status. I thought it really odd until I jumped on the forums whilke in London Ontario last night about midnight. I saw the post of Pauls on the front page and that explained it.

I want to start by saying that to this day, Dad, myself and my brother Mike who is assisting Dad in production now, are very appreciative of the comments that Dad receives about this fork design. He really enjoys helping everyone and seeing the pics you all send back with his fork on.

All these forks are an improvement and We hope that ours will help if you choose to purchase one. Vince's fork and the others are improvements as well and are good products.

From the beginning Dad has made his fork in his shop at home, other than some help we have aquired with a local machine shop owned by another pilot. The timeline we have always struggled with is Dad's health. At time it is great, other times it is not and unknown to me at the time I answer the question from you all...."how long until I can get one" I manage the orders for Dad and my brother has begun to assist him.

I am to blame for the lack of responses lately. No excuse, but I run a golf resort and time this spring has been non existent for me to do anything but work...But I apologize for not getting you all quick reply's and will do better in the future. I wish I had time to spend on the fork's, my 8 and a few things I would like to tweek on it, let alone fly it.....my work has dominated the last 3 months.

Upon returning from vacation in mid April, Dad's health slipped and we have been through a rough 8 weeks. Many trips to and nights in the hospital and finally a diagnosis/decision. Dad was put on Dialysis about 3 weeks ago. It got pretty bad for awhile and leading up to this period, he would have a few good days and then go weeks with no energy. I am sure this list is large enough that many of you have gone through this in your families or with friends you know or possibly yourselves.

Things are better and he has energy back. He has been back in the shop and is looking forward to shipping some forks again. He is a tough cookie and the road ahead will surely have a few bumps, but with my mom (rosie the riveter) pitching in and my brother and I assiting....we will get these forks out.

I indicated to many of you that we were hoping to be caught up with all orders in house before Oshkosh....that may be tough now, but we will still try our best. I wish we could fill all your orders right away, but reality and life have dictated that we can not.

If you can hang in there with us, we will get you a fork...if you need something fast, the other guys have good products as well.

We have 10 forks going out next week and another 20 that should ship shortly after that. I apologize if my estimates to you have been misleading....I wish they were accurate, believe me.

For those of you who have not heard back from me in the last several weeks....you will within the next day.

Safe flying everyone....I hope to see many of you at Oshkosh this summer.

Doug Jr.

PS....a few pics of Dad are posted on my flicker page. I flew my sister back to her home in Ontario after dad's surgery. He had to come out to make sure I was thinking of everything.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11229977@N08/4695306182/?addedcomment=1#comment72157624137963381
 
tailwheel forks

Thanks Doug: You, your Dad and your family are the stuff America's made of. I'd like a tailwheel when you can get to it.

Bill
 
Art work

Just a note about the way the Bells do business. My name came up on the list twice, and I told them to pass me by for people in more urgent need. When my name came up the 3rd time I said the same thing, but added, ?If you just want to clear the books, I?ll take it now.? Doug told me he would send it right out, when I asked how he wanted to be paid, he said, ?I?ll put an invoice in the box, when you get it, just send me a check.? I haven?t flown yet (still a ways off), but I can tell you it?s a piece of art! And I?m fussy about stuff like that?..They?re good people
 
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