Inflight Dual Dynon Skyview Screen Failure

Has anyone had their Dynon Skyview Screens Crash and go black while in flight?

Military GPS outage at exact time of Duel Dynon Skyview screen failure.

Complete Inflight Dual failure/crash of Dynon 10? Skyview Touch Screen SV-D1000T and 7? SV-D700 Screen.

Garmin 430W continued to operate in dead reckoning mode at time of military GPS signal jamming/failure.

Separate ADHRS for each Dynon Screen.
Separate back up batteries for each Dynon Screen.

Sent this to Dynon along with the data I downloaded from the Dynon Skyview system.


November 3, 2016
KJER Jerome, Idaho VFR direct to KRTS Reno, Stead

Departed KJER in the afternoon of November 3. Clear/VMC conditions.
Approximately 8 to 10 minutes into flight
Flying through Jarbridge MOA
Just south and abeam Restricted 3202
In communication with military Cowboy Control.
GPS was NOTAMed to be shut down by military activity in the Jarbridge MOA.

Dynon Skyview and Garmin 430W operating normally with Dynon autopilot engaged.

Upon loss of GPS signal.
Complete Dual failure of Dynon 10? Skyview Touch Screen SV-D1000T and 7? SV-D700 Screen.
Both screens went blank with a momentary small color band line at the top of the screens.
Dynon autopilot was engaged at time of system crash and went hard left and nose down and autopilot servos were erratically pulsing.
I disconnected autopilot that had initiated a left bank and nose down at time of failure.
Both Dynon screens crashed and went completely blank.
Within 20 seconds both Dynon screens started to re-boot in the same manner and sequence as when power is initially turned on.
Both Dynon screens came back up with ?unknown position? and gave a message:
SYS EVENT 3: SEE SETUP
SYS EVENT 5: SEE SET UP
NO ADS-B OUT: GPS LOST

SV-D700
POSITION SOURCE 2 FAIL
GPS 1 FAIL
NO ADS-B OUT: GPS LOST

Both Dynon screens re-booted and once they recovered from the crash they operated normally without a known GPS position until clearing the Jarbridge MOA wherein they regained GPS signal and operated normally with all GPS functions.

At time of GPS signal loss and Dynon Skyview system Crash:
Garmin 430W continued to operate in Dead Reckoning mode.
Garmin 430W did not crash and did not go blank.
Garmin 430W does not have a backup battery power source.

Other general aviation aircraft and commercial airliner aircraft all advised loss of GPS signal in the area.

Aircraft ship?s power was normal throughout the event with no loss of any other system.

Data file uploaded at completion of remaining flight of 1:14, and sent to dynonavionics.com/docs/upload.html

I had previously seen a SYSTEM EVENT 5 Message on the 7? SV-D700 Screen prior to this total system crash event.
This System event 5 message corresponded with the upload of a Dynon update.

Each of my Dynon Screens have separate ADHRS and separate battery back ups.

Both Dynon Screens sent back to Dynon for replacement of internal Hard Drives.

Scott---well, first off glad you got the plane down safely.

I cant address the inflight failure you had, but as this is being brought up as a safety issue, let me drift the thread just a smidge.

I have had one EFIS screen go black in flight-------not fun.

This is exactly why I installed the funny round things in my panel when I was building the plane, and even after updating to newer, faster, larger and more capable glass-------the funny round things still live in the same place.

Wow, this is a bit alarming, and surprising that they both failed at the same time, even considering the fact you had dual ADHRS and backup batteries.

Subscribing to follow this, and hopefully you'll get some feedback as to what happened.

Glad everything worked out for you. Can you clarify the following?

* Separate ADHRS for each Dynon Screen.
(normally a primary/backup AD-AHRS are wired into the network via splitter on the same network cable. Do you have two or three primary AD-AHRS?)
* I disconnected autopilot that had initiated a left bank and nose down at time of failure.
(via circuit breaker or other means since the EFIS was offline and would not likely have responded to the normal AP disable button)

I agree, this is disconcerting.

Crazy

First I'm so glad that things turned out okay and thankfully you are safe. The crazy thing that stands out is the number of other aircrafts that reported losing GPS signal !!! Where is this MOA? I'm staying the heck away from it

Raymo said:

Glad everything worked out for you. Can you clarify the following?

* Separate ADHRS for each Dynon Screen.
(normally a primary/backup AD-AHRS are wired into the network via splitter on the same network cable. Do you have two or three primary AD-AHRS?)
* I disconnected autopilot that had initiated a left bank and nose down at time of failure.
(via circuit breaker or other means since the EFIS was offline and would not likely have responded to the normal AP disable button).

Click to expand...

Both ADAHRS talk to both screens equally. There is no way to have a dual screen Dynon, each with its own ADAHRS, unless the screens are not connected, which I have never seen done.
On the auto pilot, the brains arsomewhat in the servos themselves. The auto pilot disconnect switch wires to both servos, telling them to turn off.

Jesse said:

Both ADAHRS talk to both screens equally. There is no way to have a dual screen Dynon, each with its own ADAHRS, unless the screens are not connected, which I have never seen done.
On the auto pilot, the brains are somewhat in the servos themselves. The auto pilot disconnect switch wires to both servos, telling them to turn off.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Jesse. That is what I thought about the ADAHRS. Forgot that the disconnect goes straight to the servos themselves.

nvscott777 said:

Has anyone had their Dynon Skyview Screens Crash and go black while in flight?

Military GPS outage at exact time of Duel (sic) Dynon Skyview screen failure.

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I have had that happen one time on the ground with Dynon system software version 14.2.1. It had to do with "airspace altitudes in Map" according to Dynon
and they promised a fix in v15. However, I'm delaying installation of v15 until it's more reliable.

What version of the Skyview software are your EFIS's running?

So apparently continued flight is possible without GPS

Joe said:

... However, I'm delaying installation of v15 until it's more reliable...

Click to expand...

fwiw, I've been running v15 without any problems. ymmv ...

We take reports like this seriously, and when Scott approached us with his data a month ago we did a thorough analysis of the events and his data. We've also had a recent conversation with Scott to make sure we didn't miss anything here.

We seeing a slightly different set of events in the datalogs that Scott sent us than he wrote here, and we've spoken through them with him about them. We definitely agree that the SV-D1000 experienced an in-flight restart. The exact root cause isn't easy to determine, but the display had previously alerted that it had detected an internal fault that could cause this issue. More on that in a bit.

We think that the SV-D700 experienced a shorter duration loss of information as the system reconfigured itself without the SV-D1000, and that that autopilot disconnected when the SV-D1000 restarted without the normal annunciation because of the display failure. We don't have evidence that the servos continued to drive the servos as Scott has indicated, but we're still researching this. There is room for us to improve the ability for the remaining display to annunciate disconnects and mode switches in these cases, and we're looking into that too.

All of those things said, our data/understanding may be imperfect here, and Scott's workload was higher during this sequence, so I don't want to get into a debate about the exact sequence. We'll continue to use reports and accompanying to improve our products in cases where capabilities are lost. I would like to mention a few things that all pilots equipped with SkyView might find useful.

Scott's displays annunciated SYSTEM EVENT messages in both in the flight described here and in previous flights. These there are newer alert messages that we've added in recent software versions that can occur when SkyView self-detects a hardware or software fault of some kind. Some of these are critical and are annunciated as such. Others - like system event 5 and system event 3 - are not critical, but should still be addressed/troubleshot with Dynon. Even though these non-critical events need not ground the aircraft, they do indicate that the system may not be as reliable as normally expected. We'll be looking at whether it makes sense to change the language on these events to provide a better indication to the pilot.

There is an optional reversionary mode capability that SkyView offers that we'd encourage pilots of multiple-screen systems to configure. This allows the sole remaining display in a multi-screen setup to reconfigure itself to show a particular screen configuration. In this case, if it were enabled, the 7" display in the aircraft could have reconfigured itself to show PFD/EMS/MAP (or various other sub-combinations that you can choose, based on your preference) automatically when the 10" display restarted. This is a valuable workload-saving tool that can really help in the event of a display failure or restart. Set set-up and configure, go to SETUP MENU > SYSTEM SETUP > SCREEN LAYOUT SETUP > REVERSION MODE on your SkyView system.

Finally, we encourage every pilot / builder to think hard about their aircraft and mission to determine what level of redundancy is right for them. Whether you choose a single display, multiple displays with multiple ADAHRS, or a primary single or multi-screen system that is backed up with a backup EFIS or other instrument(s) will depend on how you plan on using the aircraft, your personal minimums, etc. Think hard about what you would do if X failed in-flight, and whether the equipment and tools you have remaining satisfy your requirements.


Michael Schofield
Dynon Avionics

dynonsupport said:

There is an optional reversionary mode capability that SkyView offers that we'd encourage pilots of multiple-screen systems to configure. This allows the sole remaining display in a multi-screen setup to reconfigure itself to show a particular screen configuration. In this case, if it were enabled, the 7" display in the aircraft could have reconfigured itself to show PFD/EMS/MAP (or various other sub-combinations that you can choose, based on your preference) automatically when the 10" display restarted. This is a valuable workload-saving tool that can really help in the event of a display failure or restart.

Click to expand...

How do we go about setting up this configuration?

Ah good catch. I meant to put that in there (edited above). It's under SETUP MENU > SYSTEM SETUP > SCREEN LAYOUT SETUP > REVERSION MODE.

Re: Screen Failure

Answers to a few questions guys have asked:
The MOA was the Jarbridge North MOA that contains Restricted Area R3202 near Twin Falls Idaho where there is very significant military activity.
They had reported that they were doing a joint international military exercise that day which commenced just prior to the NOTAMed GPS outage.
The GPS was NOTAMed to be out at the time of the failure.
There had been daily GPS failure and scrambling by the military up in the Twin Falls Idaho area in and around this MOA.

1. The failure occurred at the exact moment of the GPS failure.
2. The Dynon screens went blank and began a reboot, but the Garmin 430W continued to operated in "Dead Reckoning" mode.
3. I did disconnect the autopilot using the disconnect button on the stick at the time of the screen failures.
4. I do have two ADAHRS in my Skyview system.
5. I do have two independent back up batteries powering the Dynon Screens.
6. Prior to the dual inflight screen failure I had received a System Event 5 Error.
7. Both Dynon Skyview screens were operating normally even with the prior System 5 error.
(I've flown a myriad of civilian general aviation aircraft, piston and jet experimental aircraft, and I fly for a major commercial airline as a captain.
I occasionally use my aircraft as a back up to be able to fly from Reno to the San Francisco Bay Area to get to work in case I cannot get on a commercial flight to SFO, so I was waiting to send the screens back to Dynon when I had a large break of days off from work where I would not need my plane).
8. Both screens did go blank inflight, however, Dynon's information that I downloaded and sent to them differs from what I saw and I cannot explain the difference from what they see on the data and what I experienced.
9. At the time of the failure, workload was low since I was day VFR in VMC conditions and the failure was not a safety of flight issue.
10. Both screens did reboot and operate normally without GPS.
11. Once I cleared the Jarbridge MOA the GPS signal returned and the system then operated normally with full GPS navigation capability.
12. I have since sent both screens back to Dynon and they were OUTSTANDING with the turn time in getting the screens back to me with an approximate turn time of 5 business days.
13. I discussed the event with Dynon and they were helpful, informative, professional and interested in the details of what I experienced and it sounds like it was definitely an issue tied to the prior SYSTEM EVENT 5 Error and that this type of failure is NOT something they see.
12. Why the screen failures occurred at the exact moment the GPS failed is something nobody can answer. I have previously had the aircraft in my metal hangar with no GPS signal reception and the Skyview system has operated normally and not incurred any failure other than no GPS signal due to the metal hangar.
13. There is the possibility that the military is utilizing some type of EMF disruption or similar capability that may have played into this??? Maybe far fetched, maybe not?? No way to verify, but it did coincide exactly with the GPS outage that other aircraft on frequency reported and I was adjacent to Restricted Area 3202 that was hot.

Please note: I have the highest respect for the professionals at Dynon.
Mike at Dynon was very interested in my experience. He was responsive, helpful, proactive, respectful, informative and professional!
I am very happy with the Dynon Skview touch screen and associated Dynon products!
According to Dynon my experience was an isolated one time occurrence and I personally feel the failure could have possibly been military related with whatever program the military is conducting in that area, but again there is no way to verify this.
I only posted my this to let other users have the information related to the failure that I experienced.
Regardless of the electronic system in use or who manufactured it, if the aircraft is used for any IMC flying, the occurrence does bring to light the need for a separate non-gps related stand alone Attitude Indicator which I do not have....yet.

I agree with Mike

I had a single efis once. It rebooted. Wasn't supposed to. Later it was called a "glitch". Funny how lots of stuff will go through your mind when all your electrical stuff stops working. I now have efis plus steam gauges. I learned my lesson the hard way. Funny how consumers have come to expect "reboots", "glitches", "bugs" and many more new terms as the norm.

By the way, I am a fan of Dynon and the other EFIS's mfgs. I love their products and hope they will offer some of them for my twin in the future.
I just have issues with the new norms that some are experiencing in the cockpit at altitude.

Scott, glad you were able to safely land and thanks for sharing. Hope you can share the resolution if and when its discovered.

Mike S said:

Scott---well, first off glad you got the plane down safely.

I cant address the inflight failure you had, but as this is being brought up as a safety issue, let me drift the thread just a smidge.

I have had one EFIS screen go black in flight-------not fun.

This is exactly why I installed the funny round things in my panel when I was building the plane, and even after updating to newer, faster, larger and more capable glass-------the funny round things still live in the same place.

Click to expand...

"Round" gauges don't have to be round anymore...

The Sandia Quattro is a nice unit as the attitude indicator does not rely on either air data (which is normally present) or GPS to function reliably so it's a truly independent instrument with its own battery back up.
It also has no connection to the G3X system 'just in case'.



Relevant thread I think:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=139717

Dynon Thanks

Dynon
Thanks for your reply on the forum. Much appreciated.

Scott,

Regarding your Item #8, were you aware there is a "time limit" of captured data on the diagnostic file you probably sent to Dynon?

I had an event earlier this year with a screen locking up (version 14 issue) which I called tech support about, but harvesting the diagnostic file wasn't done as the subsequent amount of flight time till I landed resulted in any data caught at the time of the event being overwritten.

I seem to recall the file only holds the last 30 minutes or so of flight time, but that's just a recollection. Dynon tech support will know for sure.

Just throwing stuff out there to see if it helps...

Glad you made it back ok.

The file contains 60-90minutes of data. The data he sent covered the time of the reported incident.

dynonsupport said:

The file contains 60-90minutes of data. The data he sent covered the time of the reported incident.

Click to expand...

A question for Dynon. What is there about the system that would present a common mode failure for both systems. There is a connection between the 2 via ethernet but one would presume that a bus failure shouldn't take down both systems (right?). One environmental one would be EMI, and with GPS jamming going on, one might presume that could be an issue if the system isn't protected from HIRF.

Thoughts?