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747 vs RV-12

2johns

Active Member
Which is more efficient? A Boeing 747 burns approximately 5 Gallons per mile and carries 500 people for .01 gallons per person per mile. Our RV12's burn approximatly .04 gallons per mile and carry 2 people for .02 gallons per person per mile. A 747 is twice as efficient? Amazing isn't it.
 
And a 747 is 3 to 4 times faster, and isn't close to being the most efficient of the big jets.
 
On the other hand...

... the capital cost of a 747 at say $220m, or $440,000 per passenger is a rather more than the cost per passenger for an RV-12 at around $40,000-$50,000, and the difference will pay for a lot of fuel. RV-12 operating costs will be a bit less too. :D
 
And I'm just worried about coughing up $28-large for the powerplant kit...
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How about some more meaningless comparisons

RV-12: $70k/750 lbs = a little less than $100/pound
747: $220M/350K lbs = about $650/pound

What a bargain!
 
On a scuba diving trip.

We discovered just how fuel-efficient the big guys are when we were talking to the crew in the terminal.

On the way to Bonaire, my buddy, a really sharp accountant, asked the question about fuel burn per hour, and after a few quick calculations, remarked about how this d*** thing is really, really good when it comes to fuel "per passenger mile!"

Best,
 
Bigger is better...

...when moving quanities of things. A large container ship, burning 1700 gal/hr at 18 mph (94 gal/mile) is about the most effecient transportation on earth - because it can carry almost 5,000 18 wheelers' worth of cargo!

Effenciency comes at the expense of flexibility, though. The RV-12 can go many more places and makes a much better Saturday afternoon hamburger getter. ;)
 
I can't believe that no one has mentioned:

B-747.........FAA medical, Pilot certificate, multi-engine, and type rating.
RV-12.........Valid driver's license and Sport-Pilot certificate.
 
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B-747.........1st class medical.
RV-12.........Valid driver's license.
Unless I missed something with an FAR change, I believe that's only if you're flying for hire. Buy one and a 3rd will work. Ask John Travolta. :cool:
 
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5 GPH ... not too shabby ...

I was talking to the owner of the two-engine jet located in the back of the community hanger where my RV-12 is stored at KSRQ and fuel consumption came up. I told him I burn on average 5 gallons per hour. He said it takes more than 5 gallons just to start his jet. :( His jet is parked in the back ... hasn't been up for a while. My Rv-12 is in front by the hanger door, ready too be pulled out at a moments notice. :)

Click link to see community hanger ...http://youtu.be/JoPaSc8vgpM
 
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Unless I missed something with an FAR change, I believe that's only if you're flying for hire. Buy one and a 3rd will work. Ask John Travolta. :cool:

OK, I fixed my post!
But, realistically, how many people own a B747 and fly it "not for hire"?
Not many.
 
glide ratios

I seem to recall reading that a 747 has a glide ratio in the range of 15:1 (or perhaps greater)? This is considerably better than a short-wing RV and indicates that the 747 has a very low-drag airframe. Anyone know the glide ratio for the RV-12?
 
I was talking to the owner of the two-engine jet located in the back of the community hanger where my RV-12 is stored at KSRQ and fuel consumption came up. I told him I burn on average 5 gallons per hour. He said it takes more than 5 gallons just to start his jet. :( His jet is parked in the back ... hasn't been up for a while. My Rv-12 is in front by the hanger door, ready too be pulled out at a moments notice. :)

http://youtu.be/JoPaSc8vgpM
Very interesting how all the planes are stacked in the hangar in almost perfect order of cost to operate!! Beautiful -12 btw!
 
OK, I fixed my post!
But, realistically, how many people own a B747 and fly it "not for hire"?
Not many.

Last time I was at JFK I saw one of the Asian air cargo companies 747s parked at the "general aviation" ramp. Captain and I were joking about their AOPA membership being up to date...
 
From time to time I've been teased by some of the jet jockeys about how slow the RV-12 is compared to their planes. I have a standing bet that no one has taken me up on. I'll race you once around the pattern---but we both have only 10 gallons on board.
 
My CFI is flying high ...

My then 22 year old CFI for my Sport Pilot Certification is now, 5 years later, a First Officer for Delta on a Bombardier and he's assured me it's much HARDER to fly any LSA then what he currently flies for Delta ... not withstanding the responsiblity of course.

I've currently been thinking of applying for a position with Delta ... think they would hire a 66 year old with a sport pilot certificate and 170 total hours in the air since 1965? :rolleyes:
 
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This reminds me....

From time to time I've been teased by some of the jet jockeys about how slow the RV-12 is compared to their planes. I have a standing bet that no one has taken me up on. I'll race you once around the pattern---but we both have only 10 gallons on board.

of my ultralight days. When we had a fly-in, often "CareFlight" would come out.
Once they asked me if they could compete in the spot landing contest. I said "Sure, but you have to comply with "one" ultralight rule; i.e. 5 gallons of fuel max."
Unfortunately it takes more than that just to start the "Jet Ranger".
 
It's ALL about the mission. An HRII is twice as fast as a C-170... until you have to take BOTH of your kids somewhere...
 
Gee that privately owned 747 would be great for young eagle flights. You could earn your free 300 flight jacket in one flight!!!!

Lets see $75 jacket against the cost of a 747 for 1/2 hr?

Maybe not such a hot idea!!

John Morgan:)
 
....150 hours at $65/hour....~$10K for a $75 jacket...probably close to the operating cost of a 747 for 1/2 hour. KC-135 is about $6K/hour.
 
RDOG, give us your answer please

RDOG Colin--since you fly both the 747 and the RV-12, which one provides more flying enjoyment per dollar, and which provides more dollars per flying hour?
 
a 747 more efficient than a -12? Why isn't the 747 a choice over in the "what should Vans do next" thread?
 
But the RV-12 doesn't have a smoke/sextant hole to blow toilet paper out of on the ground (the older classic whale drivers & techs will know about this) or a big hand crank for the emergency nosewheel extension, but it's a lot easier to string a new cable from the throttle out to the engine on the RV12! :)

Cheers,
Stein
 
Boeing vs RV

Well I have the chance of flying both ...

The Boeing and the RV..

I'm in control of both

And I can also kiss the stewardess...all 10 of them...;)

Ah stuff life...but someone has to do it..:D

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

Bruno
 
RDOG Colin--since you fly both the 747 and the RV-12, which one provides more flying enjoyment per dollar, and which provides more dollars per flying hour?

Hi Rob,
I fly the 777(oops thread drift) and the RV-12 is by far more enjoyable to fly. In eight years of flying the 777 I have never flown it VFR. I have taken it around the patch on some maintenance test flights(IFR). I have flown C150s through military fighters, military helicopters and KC135s, I do have a rating in 707(that is some history for ya), 727, S80, 757, 767, 777. I hold a CFI, ground instructor FE and A&P. Out of all of that the 777 pays bills and RV-12 gives the thrills. You may think, how could it? Well when I take my wife or one of my daughters flying for an hour to get the hundred dollar hamburg, that hamburg only costs $15 dollars, plus the hamburg. Now in todays aviation world. That is a thrill. Not to mention my daughter gets in a little logbook time.

All joking aside, my wife who had NEVER flown with me except in Airliners loves this airplane and has asked me. Why have we never done this before? Simple I tell her. The RV12 did not exist before.

Because John and I love this airplane so much we jumped through the FAA hoops to obtain the letter of deviation (LOD) for the RV-12. I believe we are the only RV-12 other than Vans that can give training for hire in the RV-12.

For those lurkers out there. Don't kid yourself and say. It's an LSA, How hard could it be to fly? This is a high performing little airplane. Just get some time in it from someone before you launch into wild blue yonder by yourself with 0 time. I hate seeing the bent airplane pictures.

Let me correct something. My love for this airplane is a shadow compared to John's. For those of you who don't know the John I am referring to, it is JETGUY. The guy who made all those cool parts for the RV12. Don't tell anyone but he spent the whole day in his skunk works on some more cool stuff for the RV12.

Rob, Hopefully we'll get together in January and get your wife some stick time and check out your airplane.:)
 
I'm not a professional pilot, just a low-time Cessna flyer, so this is the kind of experienced opinion and advice I take notice of. Thanks Colin. Looking forward to finishing and flying my -12, complete with some of Jetguy's finishing touches. The kids and wife want to go flying too! :)

I fly the 777(oops thread drift) and the RV-12 is by far more enjoyable to fly. In eight years of flying the 777 I have never flown it VFR. I have taken it around the patch on some maintenance test flights(IFR). I have flown C150s through military fighters, military helicopters and KC135s, I do have a rating in 707(that is some history for ya), 727, S80, 757, 767, 777. I hold a CFI, ground instructor FE and A&P. Out of all of that the 777 pays bills and RV-12 gives the thrills. You may think, how could it? Well when I take my wife or one of my daughters flying for an hour to get the hundred dollar hamburg, that hamburg only costs $15 dollars, plus the hamburg. Now in todays aviation world. That is a thrill. Not to mention my daughter gets in a little logbook time.

All joking aside, my wife who had NEVER flown with me except in Airliners loves this airplane and has asked me. Why have we never done this before? Simple I tell her. The RV12 did not exist before.

Because John and I love this airplane so much we jumped through the FAA hoops to obtain the letter of deviation (LOD) for the RV-12. I believe we are the only RV-12 other than Vans that can give training for hire in the RV-12.

For those lurkers out there. Don't kid yourself and say. It's an LSA, How hard could it be to fly? This is a high performing little airplane. Just get some time in it from someone before you launch into wild blue yonder by yourself with 0 time. I hate seeing the bent airplane pictures.

Let me correct something. My love for this airplane is a shadow compared to John's. For those of you who don't know the John I am referring to, it is JETGUY. The guy who made all those cool parts for the RV12. Don't tell anyone but he spent the whole day in his skunk works on some more cool stuff for the RV12.
 
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