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  #11  
Old 01-22-2021, 06:49 PM
JwWright57 JwWright57 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcy482 View Post
I know I have seen attempts at answering this question, but they all come at the answer in various ways. Below, I have outlined all the line items I know I need. I have left out shipping as this varies by location. I have left out paint because this could wait and I don't even know what I would want to do for paint yet. What have I totally FORGOTTEN and what should I plan for that I will definitely need (replacement of parts I ruin, things that the kits don't include etc)? I have nearly all the tools and I have no problem paying for the remaining items from a "different" budget. I really just want to establish an airplane budget. I appreciate all the ideas!

$425 fasteners
$2835 Empennage
$6925 Wings
$6620 Fuselage
$10825 Finish
$500 Crating
$33780 FWF 912is
$2825 Prop
$21000 avionics (single screen, two axis AP)

Total $85,735
yes taxes are a killer on the engine and avionics kits now. They both came to about 5k for NC
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Jeff Wright, Charlotte NC
Rv-12 started!
Tail 99% done
Wings 99% done
12IS fuse kit 99% done
Finish kit 95% done
Avionics kit 1% done
Dues paid 2020
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2021, 01:01 PM
R7237 R7237 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 103
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I agree there might not be much of a difference in kit costs, but HUGE difference in build times. I literally think you could build a 12 in a month if you so desired. No other Vans kit is this kinda build. Literally, a 5 year old could do it

I also don’t think an alternate engine is “way off course”. Quite a few built this way. But if I was staying with Rotax, a used 912 should be easy to find. Might have carbs, but plenty of aftermarket modifications for them. And as an EAB, you get to do what you want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustPlaneChris View Post
Probably not very many 912is engines on the used market yet. Of course one could use the 912ULS, or go way off course with UL Power, Jabiru, or Aeromomentum.

Part of the appeal to me of the package deal is, well, the package deal! I know myself. I'd be much more likely to complete it within my lifetime if all the decisions are made for me, because it would keep me from overthinking every. Fracking. Thing.

That said, I'm still struggling with RV-12is vs a -7 or -9, because when it comes to money there's really not a lot of difference. Especially when you factor in used engines and simple panels.

Luckily I don't have to make that decision right now. Having just moved to a new house, I have a garage full of boxes to convert into a workshop before I can do anything at all.

Last edited by R7237 : 01-23-2021 at 01:06 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2021, 05:59 PM
JustPlaneChris JustPlaneChris is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R7237 View Post
I agree there might not be much of a difference in kit costs, but HUGE difference in build times. I literally think you could build a 12 in a month if you so desired. No other Vans kit is this kinda build. Literally, a 5 year old could do it

I also don’t think an alternate engine is “way off course”. Quite a few built this way. But if I was staying with Rotax, a used 912 should be easy to find. Might have carbs, but plenty of aftermarket modifications for them. And as an EAB, you get to do what you want.
No argument at all on the build times! I've been following several build logs on the -12 and it's just silly easy compared to anything else I've seen (or done).

My "way off course" comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. I've seen Dick Gossen's Aeromomentum powered -12, and it looks really professional. I've also seen a short video of one with a Jabiru 3300, which sounds amazing! And in both instances, you'd save about $25k, which is mighty tempting.

I too have looked at the aftermarket for the 912, from the Zipper Big Bore kits to the Edge or SDS EFI.

It really boils down to: Do you want a "brand new" plane that you know conforms to standards, and only requires a 5 hour fly off? Or are you OK with spending more time on a non-standard setup (but saving money) and having a 40 hour fly off?

Decisions decisions....
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EAA 575512
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2021, 09:45 AM
Jcy482 Jcy482 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JwWright57 View Post
yes taxes are a killer on the engine and avionics kits now. They both came to about 5k for NC
Jeff, where are you located? I live in Concord and would love to come see your build some time if that's ok.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2021, 09:49 AM
Jcy482 Jcy482 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustPlaneChris View Post
No argument at all on the build times! I've been following several build logs on the -12 and it's just silly easy compared to anything else I've seen (or done).

My "way off course" comment was meant to be tongue in cheek. I've seen Dick Gossen's Aeromomentum powered -12, and it looks really professional. I've also seen a short video of one with a Jabiru 3300, which sounds amazing! And in both instances, you'd save about $25k, which is mighty tempting.

I too have looked at the aftermarket for the 912, from the Zipper Big Bore kits to the Edge or SDS EFI.

It really boils down to: Do you want a "brand new" plane that you know conforms to standards, and only requires a 5 hour fly off? Or are you OK with spending more time on a non-standard setup (but saving money) and having a 40 hour fly off?

Decisions decisions....
Chris, I am new to this whole thing, but I am also intrigued by the aeromomentums. That said, I also know myself and would likely want a new project shortly after completing this one. If selling the plane is pretty likely, would it be best to stay with the tried and true or will the resale values parallel the original "investments"? If I spend $25k less and sell for $25k less, that's fine, but if I spend $25k less and sell for $35k less because it's not a 912is, maybe I should have gone for the rotax. I hope this makes sense.
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  #16  
Old 01-25-2021, 10:24 AM
NinerBikes NinerBikes is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Granada Hills
Posts: 1,047
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Right now, I would say the market for a RV-12 iS that's freshly built with the Rotax 912 IS and has 100 hours or less on it, is very, very good.

It would sell quickly, IMHO, if you are a hobbyist builder. Not sure how well that would go if your time needs to be worth money in the build, unless you got slave labor.
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2021, 10:36 AM
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Major-Tom Major-Tom is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Templin (Germany)
Posts: 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcy482 View Post
but if I spend $25k less and sell for $35k less because it's not a 912is, maybe I should have gone for the rotax. I hope this makes sense.

That is absolutly true. Also leaving the "all Vans way" will add much to the built time. I just learned that lesson the hard way. Skipping the engine kit and the avionic kit cost me minimum 100 hours each. There is so much consideration and time to source little things, so much test fitting and prototyping and some times frustration. I could be flying for months by now and promise "Next time, it will be a full kit"
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2021, 12:17 PM
JustPlaneChris JustPlaneChris is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcy482 View Post
If I spend $25k less and sell for $25k less, that's fine, but if I spend $25k less and sell for $35k less because it's not a 912is, maybe I should have gone for the rotax. I hope this makes sense.
It does make sense. Based on what I've seen come and go from Barnstormers over the last few years, the "non-standard" -12 listings (meaning non-Rotax) sit out there for sale for a long time, and are priced many thousands less than usual. That's not just an RV-thing either, you see the same reduction in value on any used experimental that has a converted auto engine installation.
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  #19  
Old 01-25-2021, 01:25 PM
Jcy482 Jcy482 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 14
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Sounds like the general consensus is to go ELSA and follow all the rules if I don't plan to keep this plane for a long time. Anyone here to disagree? At the end of the day, I realize this is not a for-profit hobby, but I prefer to mitigate losses where possible.
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  #20  
Old 01-25-2021, 04:28 PM
frankbrown frankbrown is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Douglassville, Pa
Posts: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcy482 View Post
Sounds like the general consensus is to go ELSA and follow all the rules if I don't plan to keep this plane for a long time. Anyone here to disagree? At the end of the day, I realize this is not a for-profit hobby, but I prefer to mitigate losses where possible.
If you want to mitigate losses, don't build. Buy someone else's.
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