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Belted Air Power engine conversions

Welcome to VAF

Tom, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

I believe there is one in Reno NV.

Or, at least there was.
 
It is nice to be a part of this. It is amazing how hard it is to find info on the Belted Air Power setup. I know they are out there but they must be hiding.
 
I've talked to a couple who just fly them. Sadly, they don't post here as they usually get slammed by someone who thinks they should have installed a Lycoming instead...
 
It does seem like what I have read so far is mostly negative, with little information to back up the negative statements. I just have a hard time believing that 1930-1940 technology is the best that we can do in experimental airplanes. I intend to give the V-6 a chance and hope I can find someone with some experience that can provide some guidance so I don't have to re-invent the wheel. Keep me posted if you find anyone who knows what they are talking about from actual experience.
 
You can have the best of both worlds, if you don't mind turning wrenches a bit.

Install the old Lycosaurus in your airplane, and get the magic box from Ross to drag it into the 21st century with digital ignition and high pressure electronic injection.

The 80 year old mechanical engines have nothing wrong with them that needs fixing - they just need better devices to deliver the fuel and spark. We have that technology now.
 
I've talked to a couple who just fly them. Sadly, they don't post here as they usually get slammed by someone who thinks they should have installed a Lycoming instead...

I have a coworker that flies an RV-6 with the GM V-6 and Belted Air combination. As Ross observed, he told me he quit using VAF years ago because of the attacks for doing something different. Sadly, the VAF community will never learn anything from his experience that may advance our EAB knowledge base. For some of us, different is OK because this is an adventure in learning and technology, resale value is irrelevant to the cause.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
Hi John,

Thanks for the response.

It would really be nice to talk to your friend to find out how his experience with the V6 has worked out for him.

I don’t even know what questions to ask at this point because I just purchased the project and haven’t even unloaded it all from the trailer.

Please feel free to give him my name and phone number and maybe we can talk and he can help me understand the best way to proceed.

Tom

Cell 530-515-6001
 
I have a coworker that flies an RV-6 with the GM V-6 and Belted Air combination. As Ross observed, he told me he quit using VAF years ago because of the attacks for doing something different. Sadly, the VAF community will never learn anything from his experience that may advance our EAB knowledge base. For some of us, different is OK because this is an adventure in learning and technology, resale value is irrelevant to the cause.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS


Yep...sad really...

I see this more and more often here...
 
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Some folks need to understand that some others have no interest in following the herd with regards to the recommended engines.

Wankels, Subes, ULs, Contis, auto V6s, V8s, turbines, Adepts, diesels etc.- all good if you want to experiment- and for some of us, that's what turns our crank.

Just go into it with eyes wide open.
 
See question above and I'll add my only two cents. I try and stay out of these.

If someone is considering an alternative engine to save money (during build, maintenance, fuel economics, etc.), I'll respectfully state that's probably the worst reason to attempt such.

Even still, the OP should determine his own path.
 
See question above and I'll add my only two cents. I try and stay out of these.

If someone is considering an alternative engine to save money (during build, maintenance, fuel economics, etc.), I'll respectfully state that's probably the worst reason to attempt such.

Even still, the OP should determine his own path.

But some of us have saved money going this route. I've got dozens of auto engined customers who certainly fly for far less per hour than those who plunked down big coin for a Lyc off the bat. Remember you can invest that money saved and earn more with it.

I also have dozens of customers who should have never gone down this road. It was a financial disaster for them.

Can't paint all auto conversions with the same brush. It ain't wide enough...
 
But some of us have saved money going this route. I've got dozens of auto engined customers who certainly fly for far less per hour than those who plunked down big coin for a Lyc off the bat. Remember you can invest that money saved and earn more with it.

I also have dozens of customers who should have never gone down this road. It was a financial disaster for them.

Can't paint all auto conversions with the same brush. It ain't wide enough...

Poorly communicated on my part. It’s my superpower. Looking at scope versus scope, the added hidden expense and time of going the road less traveled (possible custom mounts, added system redundancies, cowling work, whatever unknowns/customization) the numbers get closer than most realize. What is the builder’s time worth etc? What is the PP supplier’s support like?

Everyone knows that you personally could make most anything safe to fly behind. This is beyond many’s skill set. The attempts I’m most familiar with haven’t gone well: There’s a totaled 8 down the row from me. The Subie (from a supplier down here in Hot AF Florida) quit on it. FAA could only get it to start with an ether prime. Another Subie powered 6 on the coast has the cowl off more than on. Seemingly constantly manually greasing the PRSU. VW powered plane on the same field was abandoned. There’s others.

The OP wants the PP he wants. Perceived aforementioned economics of one path versus the other should only be part of his decision. A rather small part if my opinion counted. I am in his corner and wishing him success in whatever path he chooses.
 
Hi John,

Thanks for the response.

It would really be nice to talk to your friend to find out how his experience with the V6 has worked out for him.

I don’t even know what questions to ask at this point because I just purchased the project and haven’t even unloaded it all from the trailer.

Please feel free to give him my name and phone number and maybe we can talk and he can help me understand the best way to proceed.

Tom

Cell 530-515-6001
Tom,

I passed on your information, hopefully he will give you a call about both the good and bad experiences, and lessons learned. Some of it was helpful advice when I built my RV-12.

John Salak
RV-12 N896HS
 
I've never hidden the fact that many auto conversions haven't been successful for a variety of reasons but many that were well conceived by gear heads, machinists, fab guys or engineers have been successful.

This was one reason I published two videos featuring a total of 10 Subaru powered Experimentals, showing not only the successes but also the parts that didn't go so well. Guaranteed everyone featured learned a lot from their experience and have been from ok to very happy with the route they took.

There is a profound feeling of satisfaction to those who spun their successful own conversions and stayed with them rather than just bolting up a Lyc- which is Experimental in name only. I always like to bring up Russell Sherwood in these discussions since he's kicked butt on the Lyc. powered entries in SARL so many times with his conversion. His plane is featured in several of my videos as it's such an impressive accomplishment.

I could do 3 more of these videos featuring other customers with auto powered aircraft from all over the world- if I had the time.

The OP is looking for info from those who have flown or are flying Belted Air packages so it seems he's interested in maybe continuing with it. Power to him and I hope those who have useful info, respond to him. Some folks enjoy a challenge and living on the wild side.
 
Hi John,

Thanks for the response.

It would really be nice to talk to your friend to find out how his experience with the V6 has worked out for him.

I don’t even know what questions to ask at this point because I just purchased the project and haven’t even unloaded it all from the trailer.

Please feel free to give him my name and phone number and maybe we can talk and he can help me understand the best way to proceed.

Tom

Cell 530-515-6001

I can put you in touch with Jess Meyers himself from Belted Air Power if you need it.. he’s a nice guy just a few hangars away from mine.
 
I would love to talk to Jess.

At this point, I am still traveling, pulling the trailer containing the project back to Hemet, California where I plan on completing the project.

The project included The Belted Air Drive unit and a GM V-6 engine along with the proper engine mount, radiator, cowling and associated accessories that are designed to fit on the project RV6A.

I would also really like to talk to anyone else that has actual experience with the Belted Air Power unit on an RV. It has been discouraging seeing responses on this forum from people with no actual experience with this equipment who feel comfortable giving completely unfounded opinions that don't in ant way enhance our knowledge base.

These are experimental aircraft and should be built with the spirit of enhancing progress in aviation, not finding a cheap way to build an airplane instead of buying an expensive factory built airplane.

I have worked on 100's of Lycoming and Continental engines over the course of my 45 years of aviation experience and except for some metallurgical enhancements and a few little do-dads that have been added to ignition or induction systems, they are still 1930-1940 technology.

Then you have the zillions of dollars that the automotive industry has put into developing safe, reliable, economical, fuel efficient engines that MIGHT also enhance our enjoyment of the activity we love.

I think it is worth a try to see if this technology is useful and encourage anyone with information that could help me figure this out to comment or contact me directly.

Tom Jaharis
Cell 530-515-6001
[email protected]
 
I would love to talk to Jess.

At this point, I am still traveling, pulling the trailer containing the project back to Hemet, California where I plan on completing the project.

The project included The Belted Air Drive unit and a GM V-6 engine along with the proper engine mount, radiator, cowling and associated accessories that are designed to fit on the project RV6A.

I would also really like to talk to anyone else that has actual experience with the Belted Air Power unit on an RV. It has been discouraging seeing responses on this forum from people with no actual experience with this equipment who feel comfortable giving completely unfounded opinions that don't in ant way enhance our knowledge base.

These are experimental aircraft and should be built with the spirit of enhancing progress in aviation, not finding a cheap way to build an airplane instead of buying an expensive factory built airplane.

I have worked on 100's of Lycoming and Continental engines over the course of my 45 years of aviation experience and except for some metallurgical enhancements and a few little do-dads that have been added to ignition or induction systems, they are still 1930-1940 technology.

Then you have the zillions of dollars that the automotive industry has put into developing safe, reliable, economical, fuel efficient engines that MIGHT also enhance our enjoyment of the activity we love.

I think it is worth a try to see if this technology is useful and encourage anyone with information that could help me figure this out to comment or contact me directly.

Tom Jaharis
Cell 530-515-6001
[email protected]

Good for you and I hope you will post your experiences so that I and others can learn from them. No doubt you will receive countless opinions on why this is a horrific idea. In the interest of progress, I hope that you can simply ignore them and continue to hang around to share your challenges and successes. It seems many just drift away to avoid all the drama. I agree with others that this path is not for all or even many, but it sounds like you have the background to make it work.

Larry
 
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I love innovation and experimentation, and I know the abuse that can come from naysayers. Heck I remember the intensity of people telling me what a massive mistake it was even installing A/C in an aircraft and hundreds of comfortable hours later, I'm glad I didn't pay heed.

Nevertheless, IMHO, there are people who are well suited to alternative engine experimentation and folks who frankly aren't. Unfortunately, several vendors (usually gasping to stay alive), eventually poisoned the well by selling folks on the idea that all they had to do was turn the key and push the throttle. I know, because I listened to the pitches and almost wrote a check before a wise mentor took me aside and gave me the best advice I ever received concerning E/A-B aviation which was to call my insurance agent prior to spending a dime.

Insurance costs may not technically fall into the traditional definition of direct operating costs, but in reality it is a huge part. Even self insurance has an actuarial cost.

Friends should always warn friends about the dangers of stormy weather and then wish them the best whatever is decided.
 
I have a customer in Watsonville, CA with a 4.3. If you send me your email via PM, I'll try to put you in touch with him.
 
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