Critique my panel, please

Hi all,

We are up the stage of panel layout. Most of the equipment is purchased - just trying to fine tune the layout.



The plan is dual Skyview 7" screens flanked by a Val 429 Nav and a 2 1/4" VSI on the left, a 3 1/8" altimeter and 2 1/4" ASI on the right.

Com 2 (primarily a backup) is in the panel left, along with a Vans map box.

Panel right is open, earmarked for an iPad or Mini.

I have wide side consoles angled up into the panel on both sides.

The primary Com is a Dynon in the side console left. Below that are switches for pitot heat, com 1/2, fuel boost pump.

The Dynon A/P control head is in the side console right. Below that are all ignition, master, avionics, alt, lighting, etc.

Up in the panel far left is the intercom, a vent and a power port.

Up in the panel on the far right is the Dynon knob panel, a vent and a power port.

Any thoughts? We will be following up with switch placement questions next...

Anyone flying a complete Skyview system that would care to comment on the A/P controller and Knob panel - needed or not?

Thanks!

Much about panel design is individual preference for aesthetics, but human factors should also be considered. I see a lot of -8s with radios and primary controls on the right side of the cockpit. I believe it is because we mostly learned to fly in Cessna’s and such with a yoke in the left hand. We learned to tune radios with our right hand. In the -8 the stick is exactly where it belongs….. in your right hand

In your current configuration you will be reaching across the cockpit in front of the screens and stick to reach the AP controller (or swapping your left hand onto the stick). You will probably find yourself using the controller even when the AP is not engaged to set heading and altitude bugs etc. My 2 cents is to locate the radio control AND autopilot control to the left side of the cockpit (and all primary switches too)

In my cockpit all radios, the AP controller and all primary switches are on the left side

Bob

I would get the ap control in a more central position. Where it is takes your eyes off the main panel. I would put it somewhere higher and more centered. When hand flying with the fd you want it in your scan.


As for the control panel and knob panel yes on both, my panel does not have the knobs panel because it wasn't available when it was installed but it's going in. The sticks are a pain to use in the slightest bumps.
Bob burns
Rv-4 n82rb

All electric devices the require selections / manipulation should be on the left side since that's your free hand. The VSI should be below the altimeter. Put any backup flight instruments on the right side of your EFIS stack. IMHO with dual EFIS's, why have any round flight instruments? Include a small mechanical direct read oil pressure gauge as backup to the EFIS. Loss of the electrical OP sensor would otherwise indicate an immediate precautionary landing. Direct read gauge will let you know if it's real or not. Been there done that... Almost had to clean my pants the first time, then installed mechanical backup.

I recently ferried a -8 with awesome panel, but

the radio stack was on the right side ---- I agree with one of the posters -- in an 8, all of the knob-turning, button pushing should be accessible with the left hand, if at all possible. (IMHO)

R.

Some thoughts:
- For an RV-8 there is adequate room to have a 10" SkyView display and a 7" SkyView display. You will find the larger screen provides better "normal" viewing of 1/2 map and 1/2 PDF. The 7" display is good for the EMS readout with Map on a longer range scale - and as a backup for the primary display.
- I'm a big fan of a couple of steam gauges for any EFIS install (airspeed and altimeter). I believe you will find little value adding the VSI.
- You need to check the Val Nav unit to see if it has a serial output to feed the SkyView - and if so is it compatible or not. If you have not already purchased the Val recommend you look at a SL-30 or the new Garmin replacement. These are both fully compatible with the SkyView.
- Moving the vents to below the panel saves on space.
- If you get rid of the glove box you would then have options to move the Dynon Knob, Audio, Radio and Autopilot panels to the main panel. This protects the panel "wings". This is a consideration as you will most likely want to do changes over the years. Replacing the main panel is simply a new piece of aluminum. Filling in panel wing holes is harder.
- You might want to leave room for eventually adding an IFR navigator - like a GTN-650. There is limited room behind the panel so some thought should go into where you mount the one radio you are planing for - you will want the GTN-650 on top of that radio.
Move the power ports off the panel - or at least a bottom corner of the panel. One port with dual USB outlets is more than adequate. You don't want to be staring at a bunch of wires. You can always add a port for your rear passenger near the rear seat.
- I just added the SkyView Knob controller to my RV-10 (dual 10" SkyView install). This box is a no brainier - put it in. I do not have the Auto Pilot box. I don't see a pressing need for it BUT it was not available when I built the plane. As such I installed the Safety Trim product. The Autopilot box is a full function dual axis trim controller so it replaces the function of the Safety Trim module. That makes the autopilot box a reasonable value so put it in.
- I find the Dynon Radio to be every bit as good as the GTN-650 comm.
- As previous said - keep the stuff that you most often manipulate on the left (Nav/Comm, Knob panel, etc.)

Bottom line - get all the opinions and then do what you want.

Carl

I agree - get all the opinions and then do what you want.

Here is my panel, I also have two 7" Skyviews. According our regulation we have to install backup ASI and Altimeter. I have installed a RAM ball on each side, used the uppermost screws for the center panel and drilled one more below that to fit the ball mounts. On the right side I cover unimportant things like power outlets and dataports with a tablet - or leave it off. I made a map box for the lower right side panel where I also have my circuit breakers.

I was inspired by Bob Markert´s panel - can you see?

The most important back up instrument you can have is a non electrically powered airspeed indicator. I would put a 3 1/8" round ASI just to the left of the upper 7" screen. You can get altitude, vertical speed, and lots of other info from your phone or tablet. What you really need when the screens go black is your airspeed. The second most important, in my mind, would be an altimeter. An AOA indicator might serve as an acceptable substitute for an ASI. (See standard personal opinion disclaimers in similar posts)

A lot of good advice above I agree with.
One more note I found when I replaced my Icom for the Dynon radio. I placed it low somewhat like your plan. But its top knob blocks your view of its display when viewed from a higher angle. I am moving it up and putting the knob panel in its place (then move the intercom down and to the left) after I open my holiday gifts. (The other day Katie had to call me from PCA to ask if I wanted the horizontal or vertical Knob model.) . As you can see I left some room on my panel, but I still like looking out the window to fly. (Read; I'm not IFR qualified.)

This pic was shot with the camera at about chest high so it does not show the knob blockage.

Ten Inch SVs, please!!

Hi, Pilp Bilbo!
Everyone has opinions, a few of mine, no charge. >>
I have been flying with two SkyViews for 200 hours, one SV-10 and one SV-7. With this experience, I am planning to replace the SV-7 with a second SV-10. It is so much easier/faster to read info off the larger screen, especially at night, middle aged eyesight, I suppose. I would put the two SV-10s side by side at the top of the panel, closest to forward view.
I would rather have flight information displayed on the (10 inch) hardwired SkyViews, and leave the iPad in the flight bag.
Consider the space needed to climb in and out of the cockpit. Will the throttle quadrant interfere with other panel mounted controls? What will snag pant cuffs when you climb in? Worried about your ?wide side consoles??
Plan a space for an easy to use, direct acting timer. The timers built into the EFIS are too remote (menu-buried) to use during the complexities of an instrument approach, at least for me.
Arrange switches so that they can be confidently found without looking at them. Avoid a large field of identical switches that require visual verification. Group by start-up, configuration, and in-flight. Your plan sounds good.
Plan switches for ?flow?. Clockwise for start-up, counter clockwise for shutdown. Or similar.
I am leaning toward using a D2 as a back-up, and removing two mechanical gages . Not sure I see the value in a VSI as a back-up. Keep the ASI, but replace the VSI and Alt with a D2. More information in easier format in same space.
I plan on adding the Dynon 3-knob panel, but not the A/P panel. Based on 200 hours of flying, that seems like a good compromise.
Place the 12VDC outlets low in the corners of the panel, so that cords don?t droop across other instruments/controls.
Will the SV-Com be viewable in that location? I?d place it higher, and consider viewing angle. Some displays have poor off-angle viewability.
The map box consumes valuable IP space, there are other places to store charts without costing panel real estate.
It?s always a compromise, hope yours works well for your needs. Best!
- Roger

8 Layout

I never liked the fresh air vents on the panel. I put one 2" one in front of the stick mounted on the cross brace between the gear towers. That way you get air all over your upper body and not just in your face. Also saves panel space.

I put the boost pump switch on the back of the throttle quadrant in the lightening hole so its easy to find by feel and you don't have to search for it in a row of other switches. Its near the selector and the gauges (if you have gauges down there).

I don't like ignition switches with a key. I use two toggles for the mags and a hidden push button for the starter both on the RH side of the panel.

I like the volume and sqwelch knobs as close to the throttle as possible so I can quickly adjust if needed.

My2cents.

Thank you all for your feedback. I have done some thinking on these suggestions and have made some alterations. Big items - moved more to the left hand, replaced VSI with G meter and swapped sizes on the ALT and ASI. I would love to hear your thoughts on this:



New layout has the Dynon screens centered still. On the right is a 3 1/8" ASI and a 2 1/4" ALT. Non critical switches such as rear stick disengage and smoke arming are up in the right panel, along with the ELT remote switch. I have retained the glovebox on the right simply because I still think an iPad with Foreflight is in the plan. Might as well use the space behind the iPad for something.

On the far right are a vent and compass with USB and power ports.

The right "angled arm rest" holds the intercom and all lighting switches and dimmers.

On the left is the 3 1/8" Val Nav and a 2 1/4" G meter. The safety placard, A/P control head, backup SL40 com and all primary switches (master, ignition, etc) are also in the left panel.

To the far left are a vent and the Knob panel (contains heading, alt, and baro). This also where the A/P disconnect switch lives, so I know where it is at all times.

The left "angled arm rest" holds my Dynon com and mission critical switching like pitot heat, fuel pump, etc.

This seems to address the left hand operations, flow and grouping concerns raised. The com and a/p panels may swap...not sure yet.

Thoughts?

Oh - forgot to mention- Infinity grip contains the trim, flaps, ptt, com flip flop (if I can figure out how to wire that) and smoke. May also have either ident or a/p disconnect - have not gotten that far in the planning.

The starter push button is on the throttle, guarded.

I am using a VPX so have an integrated starter disable.

Also - I thought that at some point the sl40 can be swapped with a 430 or 650 or whatever gps/com is out at that point - so I left extra room for that purpose. The glove box will be avionics-width too, so that space could be converted to house additional nav, gps, etc.

My panel is functional, but not a work of art like the ifr panels folks build.

I will echo the concept of HOTAS... hands on throttle and stick. My stick has switches for PTT, 2-axis trim, starter, autopilot, flaps and smoke (could be fuel pump).

My quadrant duplicates the pitch trim switch to prevent PIO during formation flying. Also, for formation flying, the critical switches (radio, fuel pump) are at hand near the quadrant, left hand operation.

In general, is operational switches are at hand (stick, throttle or left side of panel), configuration switches elsewhere (on panel or subpanel).

I also added a pushbutton for the IDENT function on the SkyView transponder. Very handy and saves a bunch of button pushes.

Cheers

Be careful with a starter button on the stick. I started off this way in the 8A but quickly moved it to a far place on the side as I found it real easy to bump the start after the engine was running. This tends to chew up starter ring gear teeth.

I figured the engine would alway keep spinning in flight so having access to the start button other than on the ground was not a requirement.

Carl

Ditch the glove box

I installed the glove box, and dearly wish I hadn't. Mind you, I'm a 9a so I have more space to work with, and I still wish I had it back. The IFR upgrade for roughly 2020 won't have it.

Simply, it's not convenient for stuff you need to access. For what I would/could put the glove box, it would be better in seat back bags or side cubbies.

Ymmv, rick

The Map Box may have issues with the cross brace if you place it down low.

Also, the SL40 does not have remote Flip-Flop available unless they have changed it.

The knob panel is a great unit for ease of access, especially with 7" non-touch screens. That can be almost out of sight, but is best placed at fingertips when resting. The A/P control panel can be used by the there hand, because many of the button pushes will be while on auto pilot, so your hand doesn't need to b on the stick, but for initial activation, unless using the CWS button on the stick to turn it on, you do need to press a few buttons to turn it on. I love using both panels and I really like the Dynon COM radio as well. I would hold off on the NAV radio and hope that Dynon gets theirs done soon, but look into an IFR GPS if planning for IFR. If not, skip the NAV radio altogether.

I also agree that a 10" and a 7" would be a great way to go if you can fit them.