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"The Machine" (VFR Flight following)

Echo Tango

Well Known Member
I've seen a lot of confusion on the board about flight following, or tracking a flight on flight aware, and why flight following is sometimes terminated or a new code is given to a pilot during a flight. I thought I would do a short write-up on how airspace works pertaining to VFR flights and their relationship with FSS and ATC.


There are two computers in the FAA, used by controllers. One is the NAS (national, also known as "the machine") and one is ARTS (local). Each center (all 21 of them) has its own NAS computer, called "Host" (the name isn't important and won't be mentioned again), and they all talk to each other across the country, which forms a national database of all IFR and participating VFR flights in the National Airspace System; this is why Flight Aware will show your flight almost every time when you talk to the Center, but only sometimes when you are talking to an approach control. Centers = in the NAS (machine), approach = maybe in there.

Approach Controls are very like centers in that they have their own computers (ARTS). These are local computers and they have very limited capabilities (by limited, i mean we put in all or part of your callsign and that's it). The reason for this is generally workload (or laziness :D) related. Just as the Center computer communicates with other centers to form a national database, ARTS associates itself with one single computer (the Center whose airspace is over top of it) and one computer only. This means if the approach next door to mine is under Cleveland Center, and I'm underneath Chicago Center, I can't automatically "flash" your callsign to "hand you off" to the adjacent facility. At this point, your flight is either terminated an we instruct you to contact the adjacent facility, or we make a short phone call and you just hear a frequency change and are none the wiser.

So with ARTS, you're basically an "x" followed by three numbers. That's all we see. If controllers keep asking you "whats your destination today" on initial contact, you're probably in ARTS. If you were in "the machine" we would get a paper strip (most places) with your destination, type, and (rarely) route on it. You will generally also get the same code "subset," as well, ie 02xx or 45xx. if you get one of these that you recognize, you're in ARTS. NAS codes are random.

Notice we haven't mentioned Flight Service yet. The simple reason is, we don't talk to them much. They protect you by looking at your enroute time and whether or not you call them to tell them you're still alive. An important side note here is that it's still a good idea to file a VFR flight plan even if you're talking to ATC. For one, we don't put in your Search and Rescue info, and even if you give it to us, we really have no way (or time) to relay that to anyone. Secondly, we might terminate you 15 (or more) miles from your destination, and if you don't make it there, nobody will be waiting for your call.

In summary:
1) If you're talking to a Center, you'll probably get flight following the whole way and your family can watch you on Flight Aware (though unfortunately it's not a real return, just a general "estimation" of where you are. If you burst into flames, flight aware will still show you happily flying your course).

2) If you're talking to Approach, you can get put into the machine if you ask (realize that it's a bit of a pain but most will do it).

3) If you REALLY want to be in the machine (and i dont recommend making a habit of it, because it's a bit of an abuse of the system) you can file IFR and just tell the controller to amend you to VFR when you call clearance/ground. ;) Usually, we'll just amend your altitude and keep you in the system for flight following the whole way (we'll also have your whole intended route, instead of KXXX direct to your destination). I would still call FSS (after departure) as well and tell them that you're VFR and open/close as normal.


Clear as mud? :D
 
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Echo Tango: Please answer this one for me (us)....I've learned that if I'm given a code BEGINNING with Zero (0), the controller is going to send me on my way via 1200 upon leaving his/her airspace... :D Rosie
 
Echo Tango: Please answer this one for me (us)....I've learned that if I'm given a code BEGINNING with Zero (0), the controller is going to send me on my way via 1200 upon leaving his/her airspace... :D Rosie

that's probably what their local code subset begins with. each approach has a 2-digit prefix for their local codes. ours are 45XX.

it could be several things.

they could be busy or you could be entering busy airspace where it's "bad form" to hand off a VFR

it could be a center boundary thing as described where they don't want to have to make a call.

or it could even be a local culture thing. but im guessing it's either coordination-intensive or the next people are too busy to take VFR handoffs, so they just don't bother trying anymore. some of our adjacent facilities are like that.

i will generally go out of my way to put people in the system and try to hand them off, but my first priority is separating aircraft. if i'm busy, the first to go are VFRs. what you could do is just ask what the next controller's frequency is and give them a call. when i terminate i usually give the pilot that and tell them to contact "xxx apch on xxx.xx in 10 miles."

hope this helps
 
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Can you elaborate on the link to FlightAware.

My weekend flight to Flagstaff did not appear on FlightAware even though I had Flight Following all the way - except for 5-10 miles at each end - and spoke to ABQ center on three different frequencies and had a transponder code.

This seems to happen frequently to me with FF... and now I always call in as "full call sign is 12GA" to tell them that's all of the digits...:)
 
Can you elaborate on the link to FlightAware.

My weekend flight to Flagstaff did not appear on FlightAware even though I had Flight Following all the way - except for 5-10 miles at each end - and spoke to ABQ center on three different frequencies and had a transponder code.

This seems to happen frequently to me with FF... and now I always call in as "full call sign is 12GA" to tell them that's all of the digits...:)

that's strange, i'll ask some center guys i know about this. it could be possible that flight aware is only seeing stuff that's filed off the ground versus a point in space. this is kind of an interest of mine, so i'll definitely look into it and get back to you. i'll do some experimenting tomorrow :D

did ABQ give you your initial code or was it an approach control?
 
Good information

Thanks for the information. It is interesting learning how the system really works. I use FF on any flight out of my area (100NM+). I've had great success using the system over the years. Many times the controllers will ask about the RV, the type and engine commenting on the speed. Not unusual to hear, "I've got a 6 or I'm building an xx."

EchoTango, tell use who you are, what you are building/flying. We are all friends here.

Thanks again for the great information.
 
The Machine, FF

Thanks for the insight from a professional perspective. RV operators are not all commercial pilots. Great info!
 
Thanks for a good writeup, it makes a lot of sense the way you put it.

Also, builds on info I learned last week when I did a tour of NorCal TRACON. That was an interesting experience for sure.
 
easiest to get the best service by filing IFR, then resuming VFR in cruise

if there is a clearance delay, take off VFR, get IFR, then resume VFR once direct or quasi direct, works for me everytime
 
that's strange, i'll ask some center guys i know about this. it could be possible that flight aware is only seeing stuff that's filed off the ground versus a point in space. this is kind of an interest of mine, so i'll definitely look into it and get back to you. i'll do some experimenting tomorrow :D

did ABQ give you your initial code or was it an approach control?

Thanks for checking, it would be interesting to find out what is happening.

We live right on the edge of Tucson's approach area, and I was heading North away from Tucson.

So first contact and all other contacts were with ABQ center - our track put us too far East to even cross the PHX approach area on the way.
 
"the machine"

Frank,
Thank you for the education. You have addressed many things that I have not understood about how the system works.

Can you tell us how NextGen is going to address the possibility of a major GPS system failure that might be caused by sunspot activity or worst case an EMP weapon taking out the GPS satellite system?

Again thanks for your input!
 
Echo Tango, I see you've been busy! :). I tried to explain this in the thread that spawned your post but it seemed like my frequency was inop so I just gave up. :D. I'm on vaca in San Fran or I would have probably made a lengthy post trying to clarify things. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

I knew all this stuff, obviously, but you taught me something I didnt know (in the other thread and this one), local codes can start with basically ANY number, not just zero. I'm surprised by that and am curious how many local codes do NOT start with zero. I'm wondering if your facility is just a "fluke" with a different subset assigned. :confused:

Anyway, one thing I want to help you clarify. A VFR flight plan, filed with a FSS has nothing to do with ATC or codes or any NAS computer (center or approach). I think there are pilots that confuse the term "flight plan" with VFR "flight following". They are two completely different animals each with a different function.
 
Gear1, I'm not an expert on NexGen but I assume they will have to keep some VORs online for redundancy. In your example, worst case is the controller servicing IFR aircraft would have to issue headings for guidance, VFRs would be a lower priority in that case and VFRs NOT talking to approach better have a map and some decent pilotage skills. :D
 
Echo Tango, I see you've been busy! :). I tried to explain this in the thread that spawned your post but it seemed like my frequency was inop so I just gave up. :D. I'm on vaca in San Fran or I would have probably made a lengthy post trying to clarify things. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

I knew all this stuff, obviously, but you taught me something I didnt know (in the other thread and this one), local codes can start with basically ANY number, not just zero. I'm surprised by that and am curious how many local codes do NOT start with zero. I'm wondering if your facility is just a "fluke" with a different subset assigned. :confused:

Anyway, one thing I want to help you clarify. A VFR flight plan, filed with a FSS has nothing to do with ATC or codes or any NAS computer (center or approach). I think there are pilots that confuse the term "flight plan" with VFR "flight following". They are two completely different animals each with a different function.

nope all of our surrounding TRACONS (all 5) use 4XXX
 
I put some flight plans in today and "departed them" with a software entry. the only ones that show up on flight aware were put in with a computer we dont usually enter VFR planes into (more key entries). i didnt get to experiment with any "real" planes, just some "phantom flights" today so it may work differently if the radar "acquires" them.

i was under the assumption that any NAS flight plan would show up, but that's been proven wrong. now i have to figure out why :mad:
 
Thanks for the information. It is interesting learning how the system really works. I use FF on any flight out of my area (100NM+). I've had great success using the system over the years. Many times the controllers will ask about the RV, the type and engine commenting on the speed. Not unusual to hear, "I've got a 6 or I'm building an xx."

EchoTango, tell use who you are, what you are building/flying. We are all friends here.

Thanks again for the great information.


Hello

Not flying anything yet, about midway through my RV7 Empennage kit!

Figured I needed to make a little more $ to afford an engine and quickbuild so I'm leaving my small, humble Approach Control in Michigan for Norcal Tracon in a few months. Hope that will speed things up :D

--Frank
 
I put some flight plans in today and "departed them" with a software entry. the only ones that show up on flight aware were put in with a computer we dont usually enter VFR planes into (more key entries). i didnt get to experiment with any "real" planes, just some "phantom flights" today so it may work differently if the radar "acquires" them.

i was under the assumption that any NAS flight plan would show up, but that's been proven wrong. now i have to figure out why :mad:

If you only "DM"ed them I don't think flight aware will track that since the computer is not "tracking" anything. DMing without an actual track only allows automation to be updated down the line based on speed (if entered).

I am still under the same assumption as you are that any center flight plan will show up.
 
If you only "DM"ed them I don't think flight aware will track that since the computer is not "tracking" anything. DMing without an actual track only allows automation to be updated down the line based on speed (if entered).

I am still under the same assumption as you are that any center flight plan will show up.

i put two in today. one via FDIO, one via ARTS. The FDIO one showed as a proposal in FA, but didn't show as departed even though i DM'd it.

DM'd and initiated control on the ARTS plan, but obviously they didn't "acquire," like you said, which might be the issue here. i'm only curious because a previous post in the thread said the guy was talking to ZBQ and didn't show up on FA.
 
.....
i'm only curious because a previous post in the thread said the guy was talking to ZBQ and didn't show up on FA.

IIRC, ABQ Center on 134.45, 132.9, 124.5 going North bound. I checked in on each frequency.

Same in reverse going South.

Destination was given as FLG going and 57AZ returning, but FF both times requested about 5 to 10 miles after departure.

10,000 ft going, 11,500 ft returning, if that makes a difference.

Again, thanks for checking....
 
Thanks

Hello

Not flying anything yet, about midway through my RV7 Empennage kit!

Figured I needed to make a little more $ to afford an engine and quickbuild so I'm leaving my small, humble Approach Control in Michigan for Norcal Tracon in a few months. Hope that will speed things up :D

--Frank

Thanks Frank,

Good luck. Go work some OT!!! My neighbor is TDY at LA Tracon working 6 day weeks. So busy, he had another person finish his nearly completed RV!!!

Thanks for the informative thread.
 
IIRC, ABQ Center on 134.45, 132.9, 124.5 going North bound. I checked in on each frequency.

Same in reverse going South.

Destination was given as FLG going and 57AZ returning, but FF both times requested about 5 to 10 miles after departure.

10,000 ft going, 11,500 ft returning, if that makes a difference.

Again, thanks for checking....

well, the center guys were no help, they didn't know. but what i can tell you is today i checked FA on the only aircraft i put in the machine and he was there. i guess at this point, all i can say is that you're highly likely to show up on FA if you're in the machine as described in the beginning, but there must be some exceptions that are beyond my ability (and paygrade)to understand. sorry i couldn't be more help on the issue.
 
A quote from the FAQ section of FlightAware's website:

Can FlightAware track VFR flights? What about a VFR flight with a flight plan?

In the US, this is not officially supported although some VFR aircraft with flight following are available on the position maps but it largely unreliable and arrival/departure/flight plan data is often not available. VFR flight plans are irrelevant and only used by FSS for search and rescue. We suggest ensuring that aircraft are on an IFR flight plan from wheels up to wheels down for proper tracking.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA
 
A quote from the FAQ section of FlightAware's website:

Can FlightAware track VFR flights? What about a VFR flight with a flight plan?

In the US, this is not officially supported although some VFR aircraft with flight following are available on the position maps but it largely unreliable and arrival/departure/flight plan data is often not available. VFR flight plans are irrelevant and only used by FSS for search and rescue. We suggest ensuring that aircraft are on an IFR flight plan from wheels up to wheels down for proper tracking.

John Clark ATP, CFI
FAAST Team Representative
EAA Flight Advisor
RV8 N18U "Sunshine"
KSBA

correct. all IFRs should show up. but the only difference to a VFR in the Machine and an IFR flight plan is the altitude data (annotating VFR), as far as the system is concerned. the only explanation i can think of for a VFR not acquiring might be that the center was using a backup system (DARC) or possibly that the aircraft was "manually handed off" and not put into the machine. i really don't know how centers work so my knowledge is admittedly limited here
 
Perhaps it's something to do with the ABQ center?

My last track on FlightAware was from West Houston to Fort Stockton last summer. The first contact with Houston Approach/Departure was lost when they didn't want to hand me off when I left their area. I picked up FF later in the flight and that segment is shown, but the flight is reported as leaving Houston Bush...

The following days flight from Ft. Stockton to home (57AZ - Northern Tucson) just plain does not appear even though I had effective FF from ABQ Center, El Paso Approach and Tucson Approach all along the path.

The Fort Stockton take off would be in the ABQ Center boundaries. Perhaps ABQ really does something different with the "The Machine"?
 
Thanksgiving 20212, Flightaware, HOU - Florida

Actually Thanksgiving 2012, I'm not using Star Trek "Star Dates" in my logs and notes :)

Flew RV6A VFR from Houston to Daytona Beach area in 2 legs yesterday (day before Thanksgiving). Flight following all the way, either 5.5 or 7.5 altitudes, no VFR flight plans filed. Houston Approach started me with local xponder code, but in a few minutes updated the code with one for the entire 2.8 hr leg. Interesting these days, from Houston to Mobile area, you hop from approach control to approach control, without ever talking to Center. Next leg from Mobile to Daytona Beach, got code from Pensacola approach. Tallahassee approach put me on JAX Center freq (my first center contact all day) and I crossed a couple of sectors, passing through Perry and Gainesville areas.

With over 6 hours of cross-country flight, all with Flight Following, Foreflight is only reporting my Pensacola to Daytona leg. Interesting to me, because I definitely was on two long distance xponder codes, took a couple of minutes for the controllers to get them from their computers.

Someday when I'm not flying I'll finally get that APRS installed!

Happy Thanksgiving!
 
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I think you mean "flight aware" not "fore flight" :D

Anyway, It sounds like you were right to assume the entire flight should have showed up. Not sure about separate legs or what flight aware will show. I do see that you can "buy" all your flight history via a link on the flight aware page. Perhaps what they show is only your final leg of the trip?

Take a look at the page:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N229RV

It says Distance: 367 miles. Flown: 1111 miles. Makes me think they are only showing your last leg even though they know you flew 1111 miles. What do you think?
 
FlightAware, FlightAware, FlightAware

Yes, I mix those names up. I'm a dedicated ipad2 ForeFlight user and those names swap sometimes.

Well, FlightAware shows my history list of other cross-country trips, so I'm puzzled why it doesn't display two independent flights yesterday of about 3 hours each, with an hour stop and a different beacon code on each leg. Thanks for pointing out the 1100 mi, maybe it did buffer my previous leg?!

It's a puzzle!
 
Flight aware is flakey depending on how the controllers have you in the system or not. This is common for it to show some but not all of a VFR flight even with flight following. Sometimes it gets really screwed up.
 
Crossing facility transponder code

It's my assumption that when ATC (center or approach) knows that your destination is outside of their airspace by some distance, they request a beacon code from a computer that will carry across all appropriate jurisdictions. I assume that to keep the codes unique across the US these codes have to come from a system that interconnects all centers.

Then I'd assume that this interconnected system is where Flightaware gets it's data, along with lat/long/altitude/times that are captured by radar. Maybe all the radar hits on FlightAware have to come from center radar(s), the approach control radars might not integrate into center's displays.

So the gaps in my flight path yesterday sort-of make sense, below, center coverage, definitely hopping from approach control to approach control through the panhandle.

What doesn't make sense to me is my first leg from Houston to Mobile at 5500, over sea level flatland, must have center radar coverage, and that flight doesn't show up at all. At night when approach controls shut down, center has to control the airspace.
 
Personally I do not use flight plans. Just flight following.

On one flight I was talking to JAX center and descending to a fuel stop. At some point I lost comm coverage with center (perhaps 10-15 miles from the airport).

I landed, got fuel, and walked into the FBO when a guy walked up to me and mentioned that I must have forgotten to close to my flight plan. There was also a sheriff/police car outside.

Note to self: If I do not have flight following termination as in this case, call some FAA related entity to advise of my status.

It appears that I had SAR related actions taken. Plus if I have a problem, I can notify Center ASAP until waiting until I am overdue at a destination for SAR actions to start.
 
It's my assumption that when ATC (center or approach) knows that your destination is outside of their airspace by some distance, they request a beacon code from a computer that will carry across all appropriate jurisdictions. I assume that to keep the codes unique across the US these codes have to come from a system that interconnects all centers.

Then I'd assume that this interconnected system is where Flightaware gets it's data, along with lat/long/altitude/times that are captured by radar.

This assumption is absolutely correct in my mind!

However, the approach control vs center theory does not hold water. The overlying center of every approach control is the HOST computer. THAT very HOST computer is the one that supplies that discreet beacon code you describe above.

The host computer supplies a particular code after ensuring it is not in use by another aircraft in THAT center's computer. (we couldn't issue the same code for USAir as we do for N9RV now could we?). But the neighboring computers dont talk enough to ensure that EACH of them can issue the same code. I have seen where my RADAR will acquire the wrong target because it is in close proximity to a neighboring center. For example, I see N123 pop up on my screen when I know **** well that N123 is still on the ramp. That's because my HOST computer saw the code designated for N123 and acquired it. My HOST computer doesn't realize that the target is REALLY USAir19 operating in a neighboring HOST computer's airspace.

I hope you can understand my explanation there. Anyway, I wonder if this has anything to do with missing track information. Look up the center boundaries and see if it coincides with the missing data.
 
Personally I do not use flight plans. Just flight following.

On one flight I was talking to JAX center and descending to a fuel stop. At some point I lost comm coverage with center (perhaps 10-15 miles from the airport).

I landed, got fuel, and walked into the FBO when a guy walked up to me and mentioned that I must have forgotten to close to my flight plan. There was also a sheriff/police car outside.

Note to self: If I do not have flight following termination as in this case, call some FAA related entity to advise of my status.

It appears that I had SAR related actions taken. Plus if I have a problem, I can notify Center ASAP until waiting until I am overdue at a destination for SAR actions to start.


Ron,
Were you IFR? If so, that story makes perfect sense.

If not, then there are a number of possibilities. Perhaps it was a concerned controller...maybe you dropped off his RADAR or you descended QUICKLY and without comm you raise some suspicion. We will often reach out to other agencies to confirm everything is OK. Also, FBO personel often assume the wrong thing should the controlling agency call about a specific airplane.
 
I was VFR. Normal descent. My recollection is that the controller mentioned the possible loss of comm. I did make several transmissions announcing airport in sight but no response...then I had to change to the airport frequency.

I may be missing some essential info.
 
Originate in Miami Center, still no FlightAware

Really don't understand today's flight not being posted of FlightAware. Flew from Sebring to DeLand, across Orlando Class B. One hour duration.

Started with Miami Center, assigned squawk 5706, and flew with MIA ARTCC flight following for a good 15 minutes (in "the Machine" I assume). Then over to Orlando Approach, into Class B at 5.5, then eventually handed off to Daytona Approach for a few minutes.

No record of flight in FlightAware. It's a puzzle. Maybe all their mice in the treadmills are taking the holiday off. :D
 
I am on flight aware about 50% of the time. It took about 3 months to show up once I changed my N number, even though my new registration info was correct in FA.

KC center doesn't like to put me in, I've found, but flying from KS to KIAH (that was fun) they did put me in. Houston didn't put me in from KIAH to KSAT, tho I FFd with them.

Heres the weird part: On my flight from KSAT to Phoenix via KDMN, I did get put in again, though they only put my destination as my original fuel stop. After I refueled I picked up ABQ center again and my tracks continued for my original flight, but my destination was never updated. I guess I'll put my full destination on initial request and just stop for fuel. Check here http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N58XP
 
No record of flight in FlightAware. It's a puzzle. Maybe all their mice in the treadmills are taking the holiday off. :D

After posting this teasing my two return flight legs yesterday have both appeared in FlightAware. Almost identical with the outbound routes, always without VFR Flight Plans. I guess the 50% estimate is good, or they are watching VAF and get sensitive!
 
New Flightaware funnies, TX - NM roundtrip

Flew a cross country Houston to New Mexico, all VFR, Friday to Monday, and side trips to KROW and KABQ. Radar flight following almost everywhere. Interesting Flightaware tracks have been posted.

First 2 hour leg Friday, Houston to 27R looks accurate. 27R is a great fuel stop!

Second 2 hour leg on Friday, 27R for KSRR, and had flight following with SJT and MAF approach, FTW and ABQ Centers, ROW approach, and no Flightaware track at all.

Sunday afternoon, depart KABQ for KSRR, got xponder code from Clearance Delivery before taxi. Flew into area with R5107, and Center lost me at 9500'. So they relayed through FedEx 906 for me to squawk 1200 and goodby. No problem all clear. Next morning I left KSRR for 27R. Flightaware has a single flight record from KABQ to KSRR, but the map has points from ABQ to central Texas, pasting xponder returns together from two different days.

Monday afternoon, SIGMET WX for tstorms in Houston area, so after takeoff requested Flight Following to Taylor (T74) by Austin. Expected to land and assess WX to KLVJ. Near Austin used XM to see CLL was clear, so advised destination change to KCLL. Approaching CLL switched to HOU Approach who advised that path to KLVJ looked reasonable, so changed destination to LVJ and flew successfully home. After parking plane and driving home I got a Flightaware email that I arrived in College Station. Map shows I never got to CLL, but ended near LVJ.

Lessons Learned - Flightaware can do some funny things, and may falsely report you've arrived at airports without supporting data. It may also glue together multiple flights as a single flight. Interesting, at least to me...

Carl
 
We fly all our cross countries IFR. I have seen the route have minor gaps when under direction of a military controller such as Eglin AFB or Columbus AFB. I also notice that when we are flying into Destin, FL, which is controlled by Eglin AFB, that the track will stop sometimes as soon as we have contacted Eglin Approach. 99% of the time the route shown is exactly as flown.
 
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