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Alternator Reliability

mike newall

Well Known Member
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There are a couple of threads in the UK about issues with failures on Plane Power alternators around 250 - 400 hours.

As we are about to spec our RV10, I looked at previous threads here and found an old survey.

So......

What are peoples opinions of say PP/B & C/Nippon/Vans/Honda etc ?

PP give the glossy adverts saying they are specifically designed for the modern installation, yet we see them failing regularly.

Our original 35 amp Van's alternator is 11 years old, 500 plus hours, whines a bit over the radio/intercom but is fine.

What are people finding ?
 
I will offer that one data point isn't terribly meaningful. That said, my 20 year old B&C 40A alternator with probably 1500 hours on it has been faultless.
 
Yea - saw that but a lot of threads were relatively old.

Was hoping for some revelation out of PP saying that this year's model is bigger, better, faster, more......:rolleyes:
 
Nippon Denso

I’m on my third 14870/14824 ND in 3200 hours, the last one having been put on about 50 hours ago.
 
FWIW, my Plane Power alternator on an IO-360 has been faultless for 13 years and over 1000 hours. Just one datum.
 
B & C Alternator & Regulator without a doubt is the best.

I will offer that one data point isn't terribly meaningful. That said, my 20 year old B&C 40A alternator with probably 1500 hours on it has been faultless.

I agree with Kyle.
After experiencing 2 failures of Alternators (automotive) I installed a B & C Alternator & Regulator. No failures in 550 hours & great customer support when I had a question during installation.
 
I don't believe anyone has done a study on this, so all we see is anecdotal evidence. I'd be reluctant to make a decision based on that lack of data and would probably pick based on features/functionality over perceived longevity at this point.

That being said, more anecdote for you: ~750hrs on my original PP, coming up on 3 years.
 
The problem with the anecdotal stuff for alternators is that while B&C has been soldi and steady with the same design (that works VERY well) over the years, Plane Power started out really well, then it got sold to Hartzell and everything seemed to change. So there are quite a few folks with outstanding service time on the PP stuff because they got the units long ago.

When it comes to ND automotive alternators, I am convinced (from experience - I have three airplanes running happily with them) that service life spends on the care with which you I install (align) and cool them. Take the time, put on a blast tube, don’t cycle the field while the engine is running, and they’ll last for a very long time. The Valkyrie is on it second one at 1990 total hours - the first one died after 300(ish) because (my opinion) I was turning it on after the engine was running, trying to make my cockpit chores more complex.... ;)

B&C motors steadily on...although some have reported failures, they really seem to be nice units (we have one on our Tundra, and it has given us no problems at 400 hours).

So like anything - context and details are important!

Paul
 
When it comes to ND automotive alternators, I am convinced (from experience - I have three airplanes running happily with them) that service life spends on the care with which you I install (align) and cool them. Take the time, put on a blast tube, don’t cycle the field while the engine is running, and they’ll last for a very long time. The Valkyrie is on it second one at 1990 total hours - the first one died after 300(ish) because (my opinion) I was turning it on after the engine was running, trying to make my cockpit chores more complex.... ;)

Paul

I spoke to Bill Bainbridge at B&C years ago and he said that switching their alternators on or off while the engine is running will not damage them. I have 2 B&C alternators and cycle the fields at will....550 hours and not the slightest problem with either. He also said their alternators do not require blast tubes but I must admit I did instal blast tubes.
 
I spoke to Bill Bainbridge at B&C years ago and he said that switching their alternators on or off while the engine is running will not damage them. I have 2 B&C alternators and cycle the fields at will....550 hours and not the slightest problem with either. He also said their alternators do not require blast tubes but I must admit I did instal blast tubes.

My Plane Power died at 700 hours and I replaced it with a B&C - but I had a faulty regulator with that one, they warrantied and quickly shipped another to me. During the troubleshooting I was talking with a few of the techs at B&C and asked that same question about powering the field with the engine running, and got the same answer - it used to be a problem with older regulator designs (especially the internal ones), modern regulators don't care.

I have dual alternators and regularly go back and forth between them on long cross countries to give them both some exercise, switching their fields on and off in flight. I'm not content to leave one as primary with the backup never getting exercised until the day I need it - and then I find out it's dead. If one is weak, I want to know it.
 
I spoke to Bill Bainbridge at B&C years ago and he said that switching their alternators on or off while the engine is running will not damage them. I have 2 B&C alternators and cycle the fields at will....550 hours and not the slightest problem with either. He also said their alternators do not require blast tubes but I must admit I did instal blast tubes.

The major difference being the B&C’s are externally regulated, while the standard ND automotive alternators are internally regulated. Blast tubes are used on the internally regulated units to try and keep that reg cool - the external regs on our B&C’s (in our Tundra) are actually behind the firewall, so cooling just isn’t an issue. I personally lean towards subscribing to the hypothesis that the reason the B&C’s do so well is simply because the regs are out of the horrible environment on the front of our engines.

Many guys have modified an internally-regulated ND to an external regulator, and have had very good luck with them!
 
I am on my third internally regulated PlanePower 60amp on my RV-8 in approx 300h. I tried oversized blast tubes and different pickup location without success.

First one did approx 150h, 2nd did 100h and the 3rd I am currently running has approx 50h.
It already starts to show the same symptoms as the previous ones --> voltage close to 15V + headset noise.

I will change it in the next few weeks with an externally regulated one from B&C hoping for better reliability.
 
The major difference being the B&C’s are externally regulated, while the standard ND automotive alternators are internally regulated. Blast tubes are used on the internally regulated units to try and keep that reg cool - the external regs on our B&C’s (in our Tundra) are actually behind the firewall, so cooling just isn’t an issue. I personally lean towards subscribing to the hypothesis that the reason the B&C’s do so well is simply because the regs are out of the horrible environment on the front of our engines.

Many guys have modified an internally-regulated ND to an external regulator, and have had very good luck with them!

Paul, I think your comments on this are quite relevant. I too have my two external B&C regulators behind the firewall (where they should be). But what this says is that the "never switch the alternators on or off when the engine is running" warning is not quite correct in all circumstances because it does not take into consideration the nature and location of the alternator set up. As you have pointed out the truth is more complex.

Incidentally, when the PMag ignition system first came onto the market I had grave reservations about it. I suspected it might be plagued with reliability problems. I felt that attaching a critical solid state device to the accessory case of a Lycoming engine would result in the device being subjected to both high temperatures and excessive vibrations....both of which are not ideal for solid state devices. Accordingly I installed a LightSpeed ignition system on one side and placed the brain box behind the firewall as specified in the installation manual. After 550 hours I've had no problems with that system either. Fire wall forward is a very harsh environment for solid state devices.
 
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More than the regulator.

It is more than the regulators. The PP has a range of reported issues, not all of them verified. I do know of 3 diode bridge failures and not early hrs - 300+. That could be cooling but two had air blast tubes. I just don't believe the components are as reliable as the ND family and would indicate why an OTS, original, genuine ND automotive alternator (correct fit) can last so long in our application. IMO

Production line testing of components at various stages and statistical process control will make a massive difference in the product reliability. VOE. If the issues are not found, then they are not identified, root causes investigated and eliminated (permanently). This is one of the "secrets" to the Japanese manufacturing success. Toyota and their offspring (Denso) are highly invested in this and other processes that make products better and cheaper.

Disclosure: I use PP EI60 and no blast tube. When it fails I will have a decision to make. 155 hrs and counting.
 
I put a brand new Nippon on my RV-10 when I built it. Had a blast tube with a custom shroud to keep the regulator cool. Never flew in the rain. It crapped out on me right around 90 hours. Thankfully I had a dual Odyssey 680 system, so I had the juice to get back home. I replaced it with the B&C and never looked back. On my -9A I went with all B&C; alternator, regulator, starter, brackets and belt. They at one time advertised a special price on the group but it was no longer offered when I went on their website to order it. I called about that and they did in fact discontinue the package discount, but they did give me $100 off.
 
With the large alternator driving pulley on our engines even though our engine RPMs aren’t high, the alternators are certainly subject to pretty high RPMs. When alternators replaced generators in cars, (showing my age) the promotions were clear that the alternators would deliver at lower speeds than generators needed to spin at and that is right. So unless your electric system requirements are up on the higher end of the amps that the alternator can provide, then lowering the alternator speed will definitely extend the life expectancy. Very easy to knock a couple thousand RPMs off the alternator speed by fitting a larger pulley. Anyway just a suggestion, Ive had reliability success doing the larger pulley thing with RV6 and now RV10, really the only issue, especially on the RV6, not so much on the RV10 is sizing the pulley for bottom cowl clearance, keeping the pullleys as close together as possible improves the size that can be achieved. Also as others have said, cooling blast tubes are good. I think no matter which alternator is being run......... running them slower and keeping them cool will extend the service life
 
I just don't believe the components are as reliable as the ND family

Plane Power alternators were built by Unipoint, and I assume they still are. Unipoint was a discount division of Bosch, but the company was sold to Taiwan-based Victory Industrial in 2019. Change takes time, but there is some possibility of improvement based on the controls Bill described. We'll see.

http://www.vicic.com.tw/
 
Plane Power Alternator

I see a lot of replaced Plane Power Alternators any one want to sell their old Plane Power?
 
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