Using the RV-12 as a "Stepping Stone" to the RV-10

I've been committed to the RV-10 and have been doing the research and saving my money for getting the tail kit and tools. Got the AOK from the minister of finance (wife and we're good to go for Christmas 2010. Even she is excited.

A buddy of mine and I are basically gearing up to do the same home-built thing and finish our PL at the same time. We both have the idea to get a used plane to build hours and stay flying and active while building our respective plane of choice. Once the panel and engine purchases need to happen, sell the used plane and finance these purchases to complete our planes. Too bad my buddy is so far away, we could partner on a plane to keep costs down.

Recently, I'm questioning my own plan. So what happened?

I look at a bunch of offerings out there in the used and new market and I'm really starting to think the RV-12 makes great economical and functional sense instead of the used plane route. By the time you monkey around with finding a decent plane, then doing a pre-buy inspection and finding out it's not what you want... yada.. yada...

Building the RV-12 in the span of a year or so, flying, enjoying, and building skills for the 5-6 years of the RV-10 build and using the 12 as a "stepping stone" is starting to look pretty attractive.

Anyone else thinking this too?

As a builder of multiple projects, let me provide you with just a couple of thoughts. One, if you've never built an airplane before, I doubt you will finish a -12 in a year or less. Build it if it's what you want, but if it's not, don't use all your energy on another project, even if it is easier to build than a -10. Second, once you get into a -10 kit, you probably won't have a bunch of time or money to fly. I know it's possible to do both and many have, but it typically extends the time it takes to build and costs more and more $$. When you couple that with the fact that the -10 will likely cost you more than you've estimated, you may paint yourself into a corner.

Now, I don't know a thing about you personally or your financial and marriage situation. One project is pretty tough as it is on money and marriages. If a -10 is what you want and you can afford it, and your spouse is okay, then go for it full steam and don't allow yourself to get diverted.

Just remember that these things ALWAYS take more time than you planned and more money than you budgeted, and are harder on your personal relationships than you expected.

Hi Kevin,

Yes the RV-12 would be a very good project for you and your friend and with two working it you should be able to finish one in well less than a year, assuming that you both have and will put in the hours, which for a first time builder would be around 850 hours.

The RV-12 is a very simple, fun and safe aircraft for a lower time pilot and would permit you to get good flight experience for when you are ready to move up to a RV-10.

I mean no disrespect for Randy but the projects he has done are not the same or as easy as building a RV-12.

Best regards,

Vern

One RV-12 done one on the way.

I second Randy's comments

Now that my RV-8 is finished, I occasionally make reference to "the next one" and my wife goes semi-ballistic. One was enough for her. She was incredibly supportive while building, and loves flying in it. But she has other plans for my building skills now.

So, I would say to either stick with your original plan, or just not bother with owning a plane while building. If you stay dedicated to building, you won't have much time to fly. I built the -8 quickbuild in 2 yrs 3 mo. and in the process, my yearly bicycling mileage dropped from 6000 miles/yr to 2000 miles/yr.

So just join a flying club or rent from an FBO so that you can fly once in a while, or find a friend to fly with. (I was lucky to have access to a Citabria that I previously owned and the new owner was kind enough to let me borrow on occasion).

One other thought - the experience building an RV-12 might not provide as much practical experience for the RV-10 build as you might think, since it uses pop rivets rather than driven rivets, and doesn't have much fiberglass work. I guess you will still get LOTS of practice deburring and edge finishing metal parts - thats the most tedius part of the build process. Others may dissagree with this - there is a lot to be said for the experience gained in just managing the pace of the project, persisting to completion, even if some of the actual skills are different.

Expensive toy

For the majority of us, an airplane is an expensive toy, not a mode of transportation. One has to be IFR rated and current in order to make flying one's airplane a reliable form of transportation, at least in the part of the country where I live. For long trips, it is less expensive and safer and quicker to fly via airline. For short trips, cars are faster and possibly safer. Like boats, aircraft can be expensive toys. I am not saying that one should not build an airplane. After all, I am building an RV-12. If you can afford $150,000 for an RV-10, than go for it. If money is an issue, then an RV-12 costs half as much to operate and maintain and to build (both time-wise and money-wise). Building a plane seems to be an exciting project now. But after a year or two of neglecting your family and other interests, the project could become more burden than fun. Deciding what project to tackle is a personal choice. It does not matter what others think. You will decide what is best in your situation. I just wanted to point out some things to consider.
Joe

RV-10 or RV-12?

If you do build an RV-12, you might find that it does most of what you want in half the time and at half the cost of an RV-10 (unless you really want 4 seats, the extra speed and sleeker looks).
Just a thought.
rgmwa

Go for it, the RV12 is the perfect stepping stone...

You don't have a Pilots license, You don't know if you are going to enjoy the build.

From a Building perspective:
The RV12 is both easy and quick to build, so you are going to invest 800 hours and have something flying. That is far more palatable than a RV10 project 2000+hours and realizing building is not for you. IF you finish a RV12 enjoyed it, and willing to increase your skill level then you can tackle a RV10 with confidence. If you got frustrated with the RV12, then don't tackle a RV10. At least you can push through with 800hours. FRom a marketking perspective I think halve built RV12 will be more popular than a half built RV10. So you are covering your bases.

From a Flying Perspective and Getting your PPL.
The RV12 will be easy and economical to fly, a new airplane you can fly with confidence, and maintenance cost will be low. So you can keep flying while building your RV10.

Timeline:
You can finish a RV12 in a year if you are going to put in 16 hours a week (16H x 50 Weeks) = 800. This is only achievable for a normal working man if he puts in 2 hours every Mon-Thurday night and then on the weekend catch up on the other 8 hours. Remember to leave enough time for your familily so a little bit of work every night works, with a complete Friday night and one Weekend day reserved for the family.

It will put your RV10 dreams out by 1 year, BUT you will be building necessary skills for it and flying happily a RV12 during. Your success rate and knowing what you are in for a RV10 is better after completing a RV12.

Go For IT!

PS: I am helping a group of 10 guys assemble a RV12 as stepping stone into their Pilot License and Building Skills to build their own after. In the mean time they can fly in the group while building. So consider teaming up with a good friend on a RV12

Regards
Rudi

PPS: You don't have to wait until Xmas 2010 to start, order the RV12 tailkit and tools today and start! Order as you need in future...That way you cut 6 months of your project time, and can be flying this time next year!

Go for it Kevin! Everyone's situation is different. If momma's all for it, "make it so".

Flight prep

I don't want to sound snobish here, but there is a great difference in the flying qualities of a 10 and a 12. As a flight advisor, I would not advise moving directly from the 12 into a 10. Get some complex time either in a used plane or from a rental to build the experience you need to fly the 10. Then go to one of the folks who provide transition training to fine tune your experience.

To borrow Larry Geigers line, lets fly safe out there!!

Gary Specketer

Gary 40274 said:

To borrow Larry Geigers line, lets fly safe out there!!

Gary Specketer

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Close.


But you bring up an excellent and "dead on" point. The -10 is an "easy" flying airplane, but additional training before first flight is good advice.

vernhendershott said:

I mean no disrespect for Randy but the projects he has done are not the same or as easy as building a RV-12.

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And none taken Vern. I am looking at a -12 myself due to my recent heart issues and concerns over qualifying for a medical. I know it is much easier to build but as others have said, 800 hours still requires quite a committment, and that doesn't count the hours that a first-time builder spends pouring over the instructions and Internet before deburring that first hole. I just know that I built my second kit in half the time it took me to do the first.

Either way, it's great to have the choices that Van's offers us. Everyone is different but we are all bonded together with aluminum shavings and rivets.

RV12 to RV10 stepping stone

I have just sold the RV10 kit that I have been working on for 5 years. Sadly due to hugh losses as a residencial home builder.
I have however joined a group of four guys to build an RV12. We started the 12 about 5 weeks ago. The empennage is finished and wings will be complete in about 10 days.
The fact is the 10 is much, much more difficult to build and takes a ton of time. For about 1/8 of the cost of the RV10 I will be flying the 12 with this group by July or August.
I do not think the 12 is a good step up in the knowledge and effort that it will take to build the 10.
Paul Grimstad,
Portland, Or.
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