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Oh Skyview, Where Art Thou

There is an update on VANs facebook. We are not there yet but good information and sensible explanation of the long delay. The key to understand their woes is this:
"Our goal is to have a solution for every builder, no matter where he/she might be in construction"
 
Skyview Screen Layout Configs

Page 3-8 of the Dynon User Manual describes four possible screen split layout configs. It goes on to say aircraft manufacturers can choose to standardize their layouts, in which case the user cannot make any adjustments.

Does anyone know if Vans has/will make these presets, or will allow the users to adjust their own screen layouts.

Bob Bogash
 
DonFromTX said:
It looks like we will not get a Skyview for Christmas. Maybe New Years?
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Out of curiosity: you're putting in Viking engine (which of course means you're certificating as E/AB). Why are you waiting for the Skyview from Van's? I'm not sure if you're aware, but the Dynon D-100s included in the RV-12 avionics kits are locked down to Van's settings. I'm assuming the same thing will happen with Skyview. That's not going to work for you with your engine.

You're building as E-AB, so why not just buy the Skyview and Dynon's pre-made harnesses from another vendor?
 
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Good quesion really. I went to Oshkosh with the express intent of buying one there. There is a lot more in the avionics kit than just the skyview, and I already have the wiring and stuff in. I suppose I could buy the stuff I need individually, but I still like some of Vans stuff like the panel cutouts and stuff. I think I will check with SteinAir and see what they can do.
 
SkyView rumor

I heard a rumor that Van's will sell the SkyView by the end of the year.
At OSH, I asked Dynon if they would unlock the D-180 if I sold it for use in an aircraft other than a RV-12. The salesman said yes. Maybe they will unlock the SkyView (if necessary) for an alternate engine in a RV-12.
Joe Gores
 
Skyview and 496

I am wondering if we will be able to use our Garmin 496. Will Van's cut the panel hole for us. There should be enough power for the 496
 
Did you happen to ask "end of WHICH year" Joe? Four more days and counting!

Mich48041 said:
I heard a rumor that Van's will sell the SkyView by the end of the year.
At OSH, I asked Dynon if they would unlock the D-180 if I sold it for use in an aircraft other than a RV-12. The salesman said yes. Maybe they will unlock the SkyView (if necessary) for an alternate engine in a RV-12.
Joe Gores
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Use the Airgizmo...

bgl said:
I am wondering if we will be able to use our Garmin 496. Will Van's cut the panel hole for us. There should be enough power for the 496
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Suggest using the Airgizmo, the square hole is easy to make and removing the Garmin for updates and security is a LOT easier.

Tony
 
Tony_T said:
Suggest using the Airgizmo, the square hole is easy to make and removing the Garmin for updates and security is a LOT easier.
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From what I've seen so far it doesn't look like there will be sufficient space left in the center panel section to install the AirGizmo :-(
 
Skyview when

Talked to Van's The girl at orders department said no Avionic kits for January for sure and she doesn't think they will be shipping for some time. They still have a long way to go to have it ready. Van's may be a good airplane kit designer but sure don"t know how to take care of customers who have invested large sums of money. All Van's can say is "I sure didn't think it would have taken this long" "We want to make it right the first time"
Well we may never see it then. Its been over one year when they told me they were working on it.
Bayne Linden
120210
 
bgl said:
. . . "Its been over one year when they told me they were working on it."


After following this forum for over a full year, with much reverence regarding other builders, and with careful contemplation, I have decided to abandon the idea of building an RV-12.

For this light sport enthusiast, there are just too many issues which I do not want to deal with. And all of you know what they are.

The long wait for Skyview, with few and far between updates, have left many of you "hanging." It has stretched the build time for many of you, delaying the time which could have been used to enjoy your new found toy.

I hope the wait will be well rewarding for all of you.

On to Sebring . . . to find a manufactured airplane.


Drifty . . . :)
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Very disappointing news for us waiting for it. I am tempted to stick in a minimal steam gauge set, and fly while waiting for Skyview.
 
Why not still offer the old system?

This might sound like a dumb Question :confused:and I may have missed somthing, but why do Vans not offer the old System D180 untill the Skyview is available, I would have thought that logical.
 
Not a dumb question at all Paul. I think it happened because of Garmin discontinuing the 496 line and Dynon coming out with the Skyview. Although it has slowed some builders progress, I think they will be have an amazing panel for their wait. This could be a dumb answer?
 
Yes, this is a problem with some builds. I have received the finishing kit with no wiring. It is b/o. The only steps you can work on is the canopy. The work under the floorboards can't be done as it seems the wiring would difficult later on. Just my thoughts
 
Jeff, I am at about the same point. I went ahead and did the flight controls and this week am putting the tailconeless fuselage on the gear. But no fluid in brakes (until I see what has to be undone to get that fabled wiring harness in). Next step will be building (but not installing) the gas tank, then the canopy. So plenty to do for now.

But pretty soon I am going to "have a dog in this fight" when it comes to waiting for Skyview. As I approach that point I have two questions and an opinion to share:

1. As was just mentioned, do not see how Vans could make the business decision to withdraw the D180 and strand their ELSA customers....and not explain why they have done that. Amazing to me - it would be so easy to communicate their thinking. Looking forward to hearing Van's side of that story. I suppose it will emerge someday.

2. Also, as was just mentioned, I do not see why so many people "wait" when the EAB alternative is there. As one who does not see the value in E/LSA versus EAB, I will not be "waiting" if I reach the point that I can no longer build around the Van's wiring project. I say that as one who was a first time builder of an IFR, autopilot equipped RV6 in the 1990's and did the wiring (except for the radio stack) myself. I thought planning and doing the wiring was one of the more interesting and fun parts of the RV6 build. To me, "plug and play" is way overrated.

Despite this Skyview issue, and a LOT of little problems with the plans, I remain a strong supporter of Van's. I think they are trying to stay "lean" while working to deal with the huge jump in complexity that comes with trying to do it all for each and every one of us. I have noticed that my expectations are orders of magnitude higher than they were with the RV6 project. On balance, I am willing to manage my expectations because I think the alternative is a big run up in cost. I hope they stay "lean".

But gosh, it does not take much money or time to communicate with us customers (brief explanations of plans changes, etc.). I hope they appreciate the value in that.

Back to work.

Keith W.
Milan, IL
 
Working on the Engine kit without the new panel

I ordered the engine kit to keep me off the streets and out of the pool halls while waiting for the Skyview panel. I appreciate what a messy job it must be to come up with kits which fit all the retrofitting-to-various-build-stages problems. However, just to keep me going, it would sure be swell if Van's could release the new instrument panel sheet metal pieces. This would allow me to mount the throttle/choke/AP cut off switch, etc. while waiting for the complete Skyview system. Maybe not worth the inventory-related hassle for them, however....and will only delay me by a few hours anyway???
 
I don't care a flip about ELSA either, but my indecision is based on some of the nice things in the avionics kit, like the ADAHRS mounts, wing electrical connectors, panel cutouts, and some minor wiring and the continued promise that is "just about to be offered".
I am definitely thinking about alternatives, and have already contacted Stein Air and Aircraft Spruce, another alternative is to just install minimum steam gauges for fist flights. It would appear to us without actual knowledge of the problems, that this is taking far longer than it should, maybe it has a very low priority. If my DAR will sign it off, this should do the trick.
avbl0.jpg
[/IMG]
 
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Keith W

Keith Williams said:
Despite this Skyview issue, and a LOT of little problems with the plans..........
Keith W.
Milan, IL
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Keith,
Perhaps I should ask in another thread (so we don't drift off topic within THIS thread) but for us newbie -12 builders, can you share some of the problems you've seen within the plans? I just don't want to make a mistake if it is avoidable.

Thanks-
 
DonFromTX said:
I don't care a flip about ELSA either, but my indecision is based on some of the nice things in the avionics kit, like the ADAHRS mounts, wing electrical connectors, panel cutouts, and some minor wiring and the continued promise that is "just about to be offered".
I am definitely thinking about alternatives, and have already contacted Stein Air and Aircraft Spruce, another alternative is to just install minimum steam gauges for fist flights. It would appear to us without actual knowledge of the problems, that this is taking far longer than it should, maybe it has a very low priority. If my DAR will sign it off, this should do the trick.
avbl0.jpg
[/IMG]
Click to expand...

Don,
Looks GREAT to me! :D:D:D:D
 
Gary, I discovered after a few weeks of this that the work done by Joe Gores to recap problems as he went along is an absolute must to supplement the plans. Covers lots of problem areas. Just do an archive search using the plans page number and it will come up in one or more of the threads.

Examples this week, from memory I think it the plans page was 35-03, my page received mid Dec 2011 (dated 2009) has wrong bolt for inner gear. After not finding the bolt and coming back to house to check found that the sheet had been replaced by one in October 2011. On the same page plans say to loosely install inner and outer brackets and insert gear. No way that will work (at least it would not for me and not for several early builders). Search on VAF shows a couple of ways that will work - but plans still describe a process that I could not get to work. Thanks - Joe, Marty, and the other pioneers.

I have decided to check and recheck and not worry about that stuff.

Keith W.
Milan, IL
 
Skyview

One of the tech guy said order forms will be available within two weeks. Yea!

Doug Dahl

Binwaten

RV 9A
120212
 
I think the same Van's employee told me that it would be here last year.I really don't think they have any information from Van's leadership if they even have any when the sky view will be released. VAN'S AIRCRAFT Has
very poor leadership or we would have been informed as things went along
good or bad not the way it went. From the purchasing dept, order department, Scott, Mitch. engendering dept , and everyone I talked to in the last year. It will be here NEXT ? I think we all got short changed.
Bayne p.s. What do we think of Van,s today
 
SV Release

For goodness Sake have some Patience you Guys ..!! Everyone wants everthing Yesterday! You want a perfectly Operating Intergrated System don't you all..?? Patience is a Virtue...........!
 
bgl said:
What do we think of Van,s today
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I think Van's could have just as easily done the entire Skyview thing in secrecy and continued to sell D-180s right up until the day they switched to the Skyview. That would surely have caused a lot of gnashing of teeth and complaints from people that bought a D-180 kit a week before Skyview came out.

Van's is often put in darned if you do, darned if you don't position when it comes to these things. Sure, communications could have been better, and yes, they somehow vastly underestimated the difficulty of the process, but I appreciate that they let us know what was coming with the best of intentions.

I have no way of knowing, of course, but I would guess that no one at Van's is particularly happy with how this went, and I hope that they will have learned some lessons from it. I also hope one of those lessons learned is not "just don't tell the customers what we're trying to do until it's done."
 
It is my understanding that Garmin pulled the plug on the GPS Vans used, and that was what made the "gap" between D180 and Skyvew.
 
I would bet the delays are not due to the technology and making it work but are with getting everything thru for the change to the E-LSA certification. I guess Vans is just too nice to put the blame off on the government.
 
There isn't any gov't approval involved for LSA, companies more or less self-certify vs. the ASTM standards. And I would bet that the Garmin AERA series (that replaced the 496) is pin-compatible, or if not would require almost nothing but a couple of jumper wires and a different sheet of aluminum for the center stack. My GUESS is that the issues were with the redesign of the custom circuit boards for the switches, trim, fuses etc. That whole assembly had to be split. If you read the Van's PDF from last July about the redesign, it is a pretty neat plug/play type of replacement which will make future additions (like an ADSB receiver) easier. Vans has done an exceptional kit here but their communication on this whole issue has really needed improvement.
 
I bought my avionics package in November of 2010. I knew that Van's was working on an alternative, but chose not to wait because the airplane was going together so quickly. The 12 and I were on a roll and decided not to stop. Looking back, would I have done things differently? Probably yes, especially after seeing Mitch in New Blue a few weeks ago. I don't know the exact price of the package, but I have heard it is not significantly higher than the old one. In that regard you guys who waited will be rewarded. The system is over the top especially for a light sport aircraft. When we on Earth start communicating with alien beings from other planets, it will probably be via Skyview. Just my .03. I do believe Van's will get this spot on.
 
bgl said:
VAN'S AIRCRAFT Has very poor leadership or we would have been informed as things went along
good or bad not the way it went.
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The most successful kit manufacturer in the world has "very poor leadership"?

bgl said:
What do we think of Van,s today
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Speaking for myself, I'm glad that Vans has the leadership it has. I suspect very few people are actually being held up in their completion of their project by Vans, remember the D-180 avionics were available until what, last August? Most are being held up based on a decision they made to wait for Skyview. At the very least, that same leadership decided to announce their intentions to change the avionics so people could at least have a choice to wait.

Having said all that, the truth is quite literally, anyone that is tired of waiting can simply order Skyview from Dynon or any number of their suppliers and finish their project. Or of course, put any panel they desire in it.

I would love to be a fly on the wall at Vans the day Skyview is made available. Reading this thread you would think hundreds will be ordered within the first hours. Bet it's going to be more like a dozen.
 
I am on hold and have been for 8 months. There is allot of speculation out there that could be helped with better communication.
 
cptbob said:
I am on hold and have been for 8 months. There is allot of speculation out there that could be helped with better communication.
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I wont argue with the better communication part ( though in reality what could anyone have been told that would have made them happy... The whole process has run into repeated road blocks that no one ever saw coming, so the only guaranteed true information that could have ever been provided was... We don't know when it will be ready). I believe every time someone at Van's said it was expected to be ready on XX, that was said with a genuine expectation at that moment (but they cant help it if another unforeseen road block popped up after they said it).

I do understand your frustration, but in all fairness, you have not been held up for 8 months. You could have ordered the original avionics kit as late as the end of August 2011 and taken delivery shortly after.

Van's was gracious to RV-12 builders and gave them a far advanced notice of the change that was coming (and risked getting stuck with parts for the D-180 kit because no one wanted them).
 
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