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mods for short wife

Bill Boyd

Well Known Member
Randy Newman summed up my dilemma in '77: short people got no reason to live :D

But seriously, I love my wife and want her comfortable in the plane - the whole reason we now have 4 spacious, reclining seats for what will be a two-seat mission 99.9% of the time. But at 4'-11" she can't reach the rudder pedals or brakes, which complicates the whole right-seater, learn-to-fly-well-enough-to-get-the-insurance-company's-plane-on-the-ground-and-walk-away thing. She can't see well over the nose, so she has to do her sight seeing out the side window. And her feet don't touch the floor, which makes for some leg and lower back discomfort on trips.

I need to fab some blocks on the brake pedals for her, but more importantly a booster cushion so she can see out, and a removable raised floor to compensate for the booster and her short legs.

The rudder pedal blocks I have no idea how to engineer. I'm pondering a slab of temper foam wrapped in some kind of tough lightweight fabric for the booster cushion, but a good lightweight removable raised floor solution is less intuitive to me. Maybe a plastic lining and some pour-in-place foam or GreatStuff to make a blank that could be covered in outdoor carpet? I'll take any construction ideas for any of the above. What has worked well for others with vertically challenged pax?
 
Other people might have good seat cushion ideas- other than car cushions.

But for the pedals, as I recall, there are 2-3 positions for the pedals. The bar mounts in pivot points in a couple of different optional locations. You can't change this easily day to day, but you can permanently move the pedals to the short person position. The taller person then needs to find a farther back seating position, which might work for you if you are reasonably taller than her. If you are a foot or more taller than her, this might not work since you would be rather compacted by the tight pedal positioning.
 
Be careful with pedal block/ extensions. I know of an accident where the block came loose jamming the rudder resulting in a fatality. Just make absolutely sure they cannot come off!
 
Boat cushions

Boat cushions work really well. Durable, easy to move, carry, or store, inexpensive, and available in different thicknesses.

As for rudder blocks, you may want to look at these:

https://www.jdair.com/rudder-pedal-extensions-for-vans-rv-aircraft/

They are only an inch or so but you may be able to add another section to them. They clamp to the rudder tube and work really well. They are aluminum so you ought to be able to fabricate an extension to add...
 
Be careful with pedal block/ extensions. I know of an accident where the block came loose jamming the rudder resulting in a fatality. Just make absolutely sure they cannot come off!

Point well-taken. This may be a job for the 3D printing community - maybe it's my chance to get a printer and start messing around. Would definitely need a nonrestrictive geometry and a simple latch/release mechanism. I'm wondering what would work to allow both rudder and brake extension independent of each other. Seems like it's no good to have brake pedal blocks only, and dragging brakes every time there was rudder input needed on the ground.
 
How much lift does the floor need? You're constrained by the height of the rudder pedals - can't make the floor so tall it interferes, unless you go with a stepped floor.

I'd be tempted to make an aluminum riser contoured to the footwell, with a relief for the landing gear weldment and another one for the stick. The riser could be a fairly tight fit to the sides of the footwell to keep it from moving around, with velcro to attach it to the floor and UHMW strips on the sides to keep it from beating up the ribs and other structure as it goes in and out. Alternately, you could carve a blank from foam and apply several layers of fiberglass across the top to give it a bearing surface. A layer of carpet on top and you're done.

I wouldn't use pour foam inside the airplane - there are too many potential disasters.
 
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Deflect. I can't remember what you did for your interior, but have her reach out to a professional to develop a seat that she likes for flying.

I had good luck for a one time project with a public access 3D printer at the local library.
 
Stepped floor sounds like the way to go. It would not have to provide elevation under the pedals, just for her. feet in the normal sitting position. Like most non-pilots, she has zero interest in being "at the controls" except to train for or perform in the direst emergency.

I share the reservations about the pour in place foams, but was thinking with adequate release agent (trash bag?) and dams in place, it could be a slick way to make a removable plug that would stay put on its own in the aft portion of the foot well. The way Great Stuff expands after being let out of the can, I can imagine some doomsday scenarios using it inside the cockpit :D
 
short wife

Not long after we got our RV6A, my wife claimed the left seat. She is just over 5 ft and I am 6-1. The rudder pedals are on the ctr setting and that is as close as I can handle. I got the anti splat extensions for the pedals and added an extension to give a total equal the the brake extension. For the brakes, I took 1/8 plate and riveted on three formed channels of .063 5052 about 2 1/2 inches long. 1/2 x 2 x1/2. One horizontal and two vertical with one hole in each of the channels for mounting to the original brake pedal. I have screwdriver access holes in the channels straight in for easy attachment. I made the parts identical and they mount with 5 screws total. Two screws on each anti splat and one each through each formed channel. 3 holes are drilled and tapped through the original brake pedal. The system is strong and works well. I can take them off and it leaves three tapped holes in the brake pedal. I made a jig for drilling the brake pedals. It would take about 15 minutes to drill/tap and move the extensions to another aircraft.

For the seat height, I block filled the under seat area to level with foam and we use one seat pad and one back pad in addition to the regular seat cushions.
 
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If you could post some pics of the pedal extensions, that would be great! I'll post up whatever solutions I end up trying in the coming weeks.
 
extensions

I tried the extensions before I did weight reduction to them and have not taken them off for modification yet.
 
Just kidding

Funny thing is, I was just about to post a similar idea.

Based on the original title "Mods for short wife", what mods could you make to the short wife? Have her fly in GoGo boots (like a 1970s flight attendant on Southwest) or thick soled Doc Martens?
 
Clown shoes

I may run this idea past her. Or not.

Narrator: "After this, Bill did not see his wife for a week.

Then as the swelling went down, he started to see her just a little bit out of one eye..."
 
After thoughtful deliberation and some off-site convos with folks who reached out directly by email, I'm attacking the short-wife problem this way:

1. Get the seating corrected to her liking with booster cushions. Her feet are already not touching the floor, so this step alone can't make that problem any worse.

2. Figure a removable and lightweight way to raise the floor under her feet in the resting (not on pedals) position.

3. Fabricate extensions for the rudder and brake pedals that will preferably fit over the RVplasticparts rudder cross tube pieces that are already in place but not nearly thick enough for her needs. Jim Kinslow's extensions are aluminum plate with C-channel stand-offs that screw into tapped holes in the original brake pedal surfaces. I like the idea, other than the thought of tapping holes in the pedals while on my belly in the footwell. Ugh. I'm wondering if butterfly toggle drywall anchors would work through the lighting holes already in the brake pedals versus busting out the tap set.
 
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Rudder pedal extenders
 

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Bill,

I've got 2 short people in the family that fly the RV10 and RV14. Here's what we did with the pedals. Didn't take much time to build, doesn't take much time to remove. And, they are secure and won't jam the pedals, and also the added weight helps to retract the brakes, not make them ride the brakes.

https://www.myrv14.com/N14YT/mods/rudder_pedals/index.html

Scroll down further for the pics for the RV10.
Tim
 
I would think it simpler to make a custom seat to move a smaller person forward, so that the engine controls, rudder pedals and panel are all within easy reach when the shoulder snd lap belts are in place.
It also makes for a lot less moving parts and less chance of fowled controls.

In some cases it might also include a special offset forward stick. I have never seen a 5ft girl with a beer belly, so probably no requirement for the stick mod.:D

She who must be obeyed recently bought an AC that had been built by a 6ft 7" engineer. A custom seat solved reaching all of the controls issues. About 4.5" on the back and only 1/2" on the bottom was all that was needed.
 
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Very elegant, Tim. If only I had tackled this before the pedals were installed! I like the antirotation dowel pins and the use of the plate nuts versus tapping holes.

Do you find that the bottom overhang geometry of the blocks enables you to not fabricate separate extensions for the crossbar (rudder) and the pedal (brake) and still use the functions independently based on how high your foot is pressing on the assembly?
 
Bill,
For seat and seat back.

I would try a bean bag on for size.
Good starting point and then lay one up
For glass seat.

Race cars use this method

Boomer
 
pedal extensions

The brake pedals are 1/8 " aluminum and a cobalt drill works fast. Use a high speed steel tap with cutting fluid in a drill and quickly run in and out. very fast and my wife did it. Use the jig and screw it on after the first hole. Second hole, second screw and then third and you are done. I used steel screws so a magnetic screw driver holds the screws for mounting. My wife had both mounted in about 10 minutes.
 
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interesting suggestion.

I'd be sure to practice this on the bench on scrap first. It's be all kinds of bad to snap off a Harbor Freight tap in an actual pedal and it would happen to me :p
 
taps

I use a lot of harbor freight but I don't use harbor freight taps. I order my taps from McMaster and if you use the right tap and cutting fluid, you can sail right through 1/2 aluminum with a 6x32 mounted in a drill.
 
Bill
Hopefully you really don't use Harbor Freight taps on your own stuff.

The correct usage of Harbor Freight taps & drill bits is to lend them to the guy who never returns tools after borrowing them after they snap off in the hole just out of reach you'll never be bothered with him wanting to use your cheap tools any more ( be careful not to get them mixed in with the good ones wile wating for THAT guy to come along):D
 
Do you find that the bottom overhang geometry of the blocks enables you to not fabricate separate extensions for the crossbar (rudder) and the pedal (brake) and still use the functions independently based on how high your foot is pressing on the assembly?


Thanks Bill. Yeah basically the way they are built, the weight of the blocks helps to keep from dragging brakes, and you don't really need separate extensions. I purposely carved out the back so that the pedal blocks could go lower than the pedals, which made it so that they can keep their feet on the floor, plus, I added the little 1/2 round dowel (or in the case of the RV-10 at the time I just used old wall trim, but I like the dowel better), so that they could have a good place to push to for sure only give rudder, if their feet are on the floor. Just like with the regular pedals, if they want brakes, they have to lift their feet higher on the pedals. I can't say it's all perfect, but they don't complain and between my wife and daughter I'm guessing we have maybe 700 hours of use between the 2 planes.

I had thought of using aluminum, and making a pretty hollow shell, but when you think of how long it would take to do that, and do all the anti-rotation stuff and everything, it would just be a bigger project. Wood is fairly light...and you can carve it out more than I did in the back if you want them lighter. It's strong, and if you don't like the shape, or angle of the pedal face, you can just run them through a band saw and modify until you get a shape you like. So pretty easy to customize.

I think if you exclude gluing time for the wood glue, I probably have less than 2 hours into getting them built and fit, per set. Originally, on the RV-10, I just used carriage bolts and had to get a wrench on the back side to install them. That wasn't horrible, if we didn't pull them in and out a lot. But, when my daughter started flying I knew I had to make them quicker to swap, so that we could each be in the left seat when needed. That led to finding the Tee nuts.

It really isn't a big deal to yank the pedals, either, to do the construction. I just suggest that you mock it up, get your wife in her seat, and hold them in place while she checks for placement. At least the RV-10 gives you a lot of seat movement to get forward. Enough so that we wouldn't want to go further because then you'd be looking at stick mods, and it's hard enough to keep the sticks away from the panel.

Anyway, once you get something set for your wife, she'll be much happier I'm sure.
 
Try this.

Hi Bill,

This is a rather crude design but perhaps could be improved with a little CAD work and reproduced on a large 3D printer. I haven't tried it out on my wife as she refused to have it in our house because it clashed with her décor. I have seen your work and fell confident that you can improve on this beta model.

 
So, the competition for post of the year heats up...

Ron that idea already crossed my mind. I think I could make yours blend with our decor since Lorri is into the primitives and farm motifs. To wit, our coffee table, which she loves:
86CAB35E-C367-4800-B837-F8FA27A5ABBE.jpg


The rack would make a nice companion piece. Bonus points if Lurch the Butler conveyed as well.
 
Oh Boy Bi!l, I think I'd sleep with 1 eye open if I were you!
Kidding aside, we talked to Paul Grimstad at OSH about extensions for the Control Approach pedals, and he felt it was a good idea. Maybe they will actually happen.

As for the extensions on the stock pedals, Tim's idea is great and we know it works, as his girls fly 2 different RV's. Maybe design them in various sizes.

Tom
 
I like the pedal extension ideas, both in wood and in aluminum. Plenty to run with there as I get started.

Step one will be ordering some stadium or boat cushions to establish what we need in vertical lift to see over the nose. Everything else, false floor and pedals, calculates from there...
 
That would work for a quick-and-dirty, but I'm looking ahead to something I can leave in place under her seat cushion that won't mar ambience of the Lexus-like interior :p
 
That would work for a quick-and-dirty, but I'm looking ahead to something I can leave in place under her seat cushion that won't mar ambience of the Lexus-like interior :p

Aah. I thought you were trying to do a quick and dirty, then spend coin on a new custom cushion or two.
 
I like the pedal extension ideas, both in wood and in aluminum. Plenty to run with there as I get started.

Step one will be ordering some stadium or boat cushions to establish what we need in vertical lift to see over the nose. Everything else, false floor and pedals, calculates from there...

My wife also can't get her feet on the floor. Fortunately she doesn't seem to care enough about the limited fwd visibility (absolute 0 interest in piloting the plane). Making a platform for her feet is on my near term project list, so anxious to learn of your plan. I have been simply thinking of a rigid board of some sort that will extend about 12" forward of rear footwell wall and possibly held with velcro. Definitely needs to be removable as I fly with others in the front seat often.

Larry
 
My is 4’11” and her feet do reach the floor but of course not the rudder pedals.

She was a glider guider with solo flight experience but no longer actively flies. The stick time she has had on our ‘10 is not comfortable but; 1) she has no interest in flying it, except if 2) she is required to in which case she is confident she can get it down in one piece. Who know whether that is true or not.

However, does your (short) wife want her seating and controls modified so that she can fly the plane on a regular or semi-regular basis. My wife sleeps a lot but insists that the radio be unmuted so that she knows how things are going.

I decided against making the significant modifications required to make it comfortable for her to fly it. I’ve done and do everything I can to make her a most comfortable passenger.

Just thought I’d share my experience.
 
Pedals are already permanently installed as close to me as practical - I'm 5'-8".

I'm 5'8" as well. I currently fly a Mooney 201 and put my seat in the full forward position when maneuvering or taking off/landing. I can reach the pedals in that airplane just fine in the second position from full forward as well.

I'm installing the Control Approach Pedals, and trying to figure out what position will be best for me to install the pedals. I've read a few posts here, and referenced some build logs, but still don't have a good idea of the reach to the rudder pedals. I don't have the seats yet.

Because the ControlApproach pedals only have one shaft (or, rather, the shafts are co-axial), it's possible to have four different mounting positions for the pedals--the brackets can be in the fore or aft position, and you can choose whether to use the forward or aft shaft position in the mounting blocks.

This is a somewhat different question than most people ask about fitting in the RV-10, in that I'm not tall. In fact, I think overall height is less important when you're short than inseam. I wear a 30" inseam, so more of my height is in the torso than in the legs than for many people.

Any ideas from people of my general size whether I should push the pedals more forward or keep them further aft?
 
Ditto on Tim Olson’s Pedal Extensions

I copied Tim’s pedal extensions on my RV-7A. My wife and I are both pilots. She’s 5 foot two and I’m 6 foot two. The pedals have been working great for her for a couple of years now.
 
Seat and pedals

For best results you might consider a combination of both. A bit of seat cushion and backrest padding as well as a short rudder extension.
Too much seat cushion and you end up rubbing your knees on the lower end of the panel and your stick will drop below your leg level.
It is very sweet of you to want to accommodate and taylor the right seat for your wife's dimensions. Realistically, if all she is ever going to do on the controls is practice enough to get the airplane on the ground, its probably best to just have her learn to use the stick and manage engine controls.
You can get an RV 10 on the ground safely without using the rudders.
In a real emergency, it would be highly unlikely that anyone who is barely trained would remember to correctly use coordinated control inputs. Nice shallow turns and land into the wind.
Just another angle.
 
To answer Ernst and Bill W., my wife has zero interest in flying for any reason outside an emergency. My interest in her access to the rudder pedals is 1% coordinated control inputs and 99% braking and steering once on the runway in some fashion.

My work on this project has been sidelined by uncomfortably cold hangar temps and laziness. I'll update when I have some experimentation completed.
 
I wear a 30" inseam, so more of my height is in the torso than in the legs than for many people.

Any ideas from people of my general size whether I should push the pedals more forward or keep them further aft?

My inseam is 29 1/2”. My stock pedals are in the aft (closer to me) position; I fly with the seat one notch back from full forward. So I’d vote to leave your pedals aft.
 
Ready to move forward with my original plan here and about to pull the trigger on some pourable foam to play around with - carefully - as a removable partial-length floor-raising platform substrate. Plan would be to top it with a layer of composite for durability. My first Amazon search hit was for 2# density pourable foam. Then it occurred to me that the 2# stuff might be too flimsy to take her foot weight as she climbs in and out.

I want to have something durable enough not to dent under the weight of short pax climbing in and out, yet not add excessive weight. I have zero experience with pourable foams and their various densities and strengths under compressive loads.

Any thoughts on the best product to start with? Options on Amazon appear to be 2, 4 and 6-pound densities.
 
With regard to the floor riser...

I built some filler pieces for my aft section out of 1" foam insulation from HD aviation with a piece of plywood cut for the top. I just used them so I could lay in the aft section when required. You could probably easily do something similar as floor riser. The foam is easy to cut to get the shape that you want. If you wanted to fiberglass over that it would be simple too. You would just need to figure out how to secure it.
 
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