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View Poll Results: Do you use the IFR capability of your RV?
YES (file IFR) 236 72.84%
NO 88 27.16%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 01-02-2021, 08:39 PM
andrewtac andrewtac is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Friendswood TX
Posts: 315
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I fly for a living and know several pilots in the area who fly for a living (some AF, some Marine, some Navy, and some only civilian time). We all will fly in cloud in an single engine GA. My sample size is small but I don't think that professional pilots as a whole are less likely to fly IFR in a single engine GA airplane. Icing is not IFR. If the plane doesn't have deice capability then don't fly in ice. Even in the middle of winter most clouds in the GA airspace in my area don't meet the requirements to make ice. There is risk to flying anything, the airplane doesn't care if it is dark or there are clouds (excluding those that lead to ice). If I didn't trust my plane enough to fly in the weather I wouldn't trust it vfr either; of course it is set up for ifr( if the plane was vfr only then that would be different).
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  #102  
Old 01-02-2021, 09:15 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,747
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AX-O,
Yep.... a little bit of thread drift, but this is a “forum”, so you get what you get. To answer your only question - “ for those who have equipped for IFR, how many of you use it” - or something like that. Well, I have equipped three of my 5 RV’s for IFR flight, and I really didn’t use that capability very often. That’s mostly because I didn’t need to. I don’t feel there is anything unsafe about IMC flight in a properly equipped and maintained RV, and I never felt uncomfortable while flying ‘in the clouds’. When I calculated the cost of the hours spent on IMC flights against the equipment necessary to legally do that, it turned out to be many thousands of dollars per hour of IFR flight because I didn’t fly in those conditions very often. On my latest, and probably last RV (RV4), when I rebuilt the panel, I made it a very capable dual EFIS, VFR panel. I retired a few years ago, and maintaining currency now is also an issue that I’m not willing to take shortcuts on. It’s not a cost effective or practical option for me at this stage of my life. You’re a young man, so totally different story for you.
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RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
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  #103  
Old 01-02-2021, 09:46 PM
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loopfuzz loopfuzz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: ptown
Posts: 401
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Ten years ago when I built the RV I had plans of doing more IFR. Life happens. And I don't do much IFR at all. Is there a way for people to change their poll answer?
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  #104  
Old 01-02-2021, 10:21 PM
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AX-O AX-O is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Avgas View Post
Hey Axel, I think you’re being way too harsh on Chattin35. He’s an ex-USAF pilot and his real world experience has presumably influenced his point of view (which he’s fully entitled to). As for “thread drift”..... what thread drift....its a thread about people using or not using IFR capability.
The question for the poll is “Do you use the IFR capability of your RV?” Simple, yes or no. If the person responding has a personal experience that is applicable, it is great to hear that so we can learn. Or potentially look at things from a different angle/point of view. Personal data is good data.

As for thread drift:
What is not data or a useful point of view is negatively speaking about other people in generalizations. That does not help answer the question and derails the thread to the point that this is no longer about the original question.
e.g. having to reply to your post.

Everyone IS entitled to their opinion however, in this case I am/was searching for real data. NOT negative generalizations of a group of people.

Can we please go back to the thread with real data and stop generalizations before this thread gets locked? Thank you for everyone’s consideration and cooperation.
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The information that I post is just that; information and my own personal experiences. You need to weight out the pros and cons and make up your own mind/decisions. The pictures posted may not show the final stage or configuration. Build at your own risk.
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  #105  
Old 01-02-2021, 10:35 PM
David Z David Z is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Thunder Bay Ontario
Posts: 479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewtac View Post
...If I didn't trust my plane enough to fly in the weather I wouldn't trust it vfr either...
I'm going to disagree with this statement. An electrical malfunction that takes out fancy screens and/or navigation equipment becomes a non issue in day-VFR, most night-VFR situations and VMC-IFR. There's a beautifully reliable "back-up horizon" outside the canopy.

An engine failure in day-VMC gives the pilot significantly more time to set up the approach to an off-airport landing. This time is used to increase the options and thus chances of a desirable outcome. This engine failure situation is also very dependent on the terrain one typically flies over. Enough altitude, with lots of airports around, avionics can get the plane into a good spot by 500' (or whatever the cloud base is at).

In my career so far, I've had friends and co-workers involved in 9 engine failures. 2x PW120/123, 5x PT-6, 1x TIO-540, 2x AEIO-360 (sample size for turboprops is much much larger).

IFR, regardless of aircraft, is always safer than scud running. If one is going to fly in the muck, do it up high in the clouds under IFR.

Flying is all about risk management, and deciding what risks one is willing to accept. I can't make a decision for andrewtac any better than he can make a decision for me (sorry for picking on you). I don't know someone else's plane, the trip they're planning, their familiarity with the route, weather or what risks they deem acceptable. The most important part is to be aware of the risks and make an informed decision.
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  #106  
Old 01-03-2021, 04:05 AM
Capt Capt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 650
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My RV is IFR capable as are I. Would I drive it IFR! Never!
It's about choice. I simply chose not to.
Life is too short and now that I'm no longer forced to drive in IFR conditions I intend to increase my chances of being around a lot longer to fly and live another day, flying day VFR only
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  #107  
Old 01-03-2021, 09:05 AM
andrewtac andrewtac is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Friendswood TX
Posts: 315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Z View Post
I'm going to disagree with this statement. An electrical malfunction that takes out fancy screens and/or navigation equipment becomes a non issue in day-VFR, most night-VFR situations and VMC-IFR. There's a beautifully reliable "back-up horizon" outside the canopy.

An engine failure in day-VMC gives the pilot significantly more time to set up the approach to an off-airport landing. This time is used to increase the options and thus chances of a desirable outcome. This engine failure situation is also very dependent on the terrain one typically flies over. Enough altitude, with lots of airports around, avionics can get the plane into a good spot by 500' (or whatever the cloud base is at).

In my career so far, I've had friends and co-workers involved in 9 engine failures. 2x PW120/123, 5x PT-6, 1x TIO-540, 2x AEIO-360 (sample size for turboprops is much much larger).

IFR, regardless of aircraft, is always safer than scud running. If one is going to fly in the muck, do it up high in the clouds under IFR.

Flying is all about risk management, and deciding what risks one is willing to accept. I can't make a decision for andrewtac any better than he can make a decision for me (sorry for picking on you). I don't know someone else's plane, the trip they're planning, their familiarity with the route, weather or what risks they deem acceptable. The most important part is to be aware of the risks and make an informed decision.

If something is not reliable and I don't trust it then I'll fix it before I fly it, regardless of weather conditions. Disagree all you want, but I see it as 1 or 0; airworthy or not does not depend on weather. My statement had nothing to do with outcomes of failure but trust in my airplane. I can't make decisions for other people either, if someone has lower standards for vfr on their RV that is their choice. I understand partial mission capable, and if the mission dictated me going I would; however with my airplane it is either full mission capable or I am not flying it. This is my opinion, how I treat my airplane.

I understand if an engine fails and it is night (the horizon is not going to help you pick a landing spot unless the moo is really full) or I am in cloud it sure makes it difficult to sort out a solution. However, back to my original risk mitigation it all works or I don't fly. If I thought I was going to loose my engine I wouldn't fly regardless of weather. That doesn't mean I don't practice engine out profiles, it can happen even with multiple engines.

I answered the pole yes, and will continue to do it. I don't go and seek it out, but I don't avoid it either.
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  #108  
Old 01-03-2021, 12:31 PM
SVTPete83 SVTPete83 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Napa, Ca
Posts: 45
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I got my ticket in my RV. Yes I fly IFR in it. But in nothing convective and usually I avoid the rain and much as possible. Out here in the northern ca Bay Area we get a lot of great IFR to fly in. Most mornings at my home airport we have an overcast layer and you wouldn’t get to fly until the afternoon if you didn’t have your ticket.
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  #109  
Old 01-03-2021, 04:07 PM
Indy Indy is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Prattville, AL
Posts: 61
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Mine is IFR equipped/certified and I do use it in that capacity, but mostly just to get through layers vs flying solid IMC. I flew an ILS to mins at night (a great "never again lesson"--winds/weather made my enroute segment much longer than planned pushing me to a dusk arrival, the clouds made it pretty darn dark, and the ceilings were lower than ATIS was calling). That made me rethink the reality and wisdom of using it as a planned option vs more of an emergency capability, but that's just me.
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  #110  
Old 01-03-2021, 07:10 PM
Pilot8 Pilot8 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: California
Posts: 64
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In the spirit of the thread and positive thinking leadership...

My RV8 is set up for IFR- dual nav/coms, GTN 650, AFS 5400, backup PFD, along with PFD/EFIS backup batteries. First flight was Nov 2015, First IFR clearance in actual IMC was Aug 2020, to takeoff in 1.5mi visibility in smoke, then zero-zero over the CA Sierras in smoke for 20 minutes. The trip to Steamboat springs was fun and I felt safe and sane. My plane was setup for this very thing- the utility of being able to leave the San Francisco bay area with our predictable marine layers. I have a Redbird TD at home to stay current, the plane is well maintained (!!), so I felt it was a reasonable risk. I draw the line on possible icing conditions- don't do it; there are plenty of NOAA resources to stay away from icing. I feel all my attention on staying IFR proficient helps keep me safe in all my flying- taking out of the VFR safety bank to pay for an IFR trip once in a while, seams like a reasonable thing to do.
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Last edited by Pilot8 : 01-04-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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